Halliburton Wasting US Tax Dollars?

Mistress Lady X

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Not to mention deliberatly endangering lives.....

This came as a webmail to me so I'm not able to chase the original source and paste the link, so apologies now for the long cut and paste job.

I thought it made interesting reading:

Friday, May 28, 2004

Take Action On Halliburton!

Halliburton was recently found guilty of wasting taxpayer dollars by charging the U.S. Government for sending empty trucks across Iraq. Not only was this company stealing from U.S. taxpayers, they were endangering the lives of their drivers and our soldiers in Iraq. Let the Board of Directors know that you are not pleased with their conduct.

Visit http://action.hiphopconvention.org/action/ and Take Action on Halliburton! by sending an email to Halliburton's Board of Directors letting them know exactly how you feel about their recent actions.

Got an issue? Tired of seeing negative images in the media? Tired of seeing your government reps sitting on their arses?Send an email to comments@hiphopconvention.org and we'll take action!

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Trucks made to drive without cargo in dangerous areas of Iraq

By Seth Borenstein

Knight Ridder Newspapers




WASHINGTON - Empty flatbed trucks crisscrossed Iraq more than 100 times as their drivers and the soldiers who guarded them dodged bullets, bricks and homemade bombs.

Twelve current and former truckers who regularly made the 300-mile re-supply run from Camp Cedar in southern Iraq to Camp Anaconda near Baghdad told Knight Ridder that they risked their lives driving empty trucks while their employer, a subsidiary of Halliburton Inc., billed the government for hauling what they derisively called "sailboat fuel."

Defense Department records show that Kellogg Brown and Root, a Halliburton subsidiary, has been paid $327 million for "theater transportation" of war materiel and supplies for U.S. forces in Iraq and is earmarked to be paid $230 million more. The convoys are a lifeline for U.S. troops in Iraq hauling tires for Humvees, Army boots, filing cabinets, tools, engine parts and even an unmanned Predator reconnaissance plane.

KBR's contract with the Defense Department allows the company to pass on the cost of the transportation and add 1 percent to 3 percent for profit, but neither KBR nor the U.S. Army Field Support Command in Rock Island, Ill., which oversees the contract, was able to provide cost estimates for the empty trucks. Trucking experts estimate that each round trip costs taxpayers thousands of dollars.

Seven of the 12 truckers who talked to Knight Ridder asked that they not be identified by name. Six of the 12 were fired by KBR for allegedly running Iraqi drivers off the road when they attempted to break into the convoy. The drivers disputed that accusation.

In addition to interviewing the drivers, Knight Ridder reviewed KBR records of the empty trips, dozens of photographs of empty flatbeds and a videotape that showed 15 empty trucks in one convoy.

The 12 drivers, all interviewed separately over the course of more than a month, told similar stories about their trips through hostile territory.

"Thor," a driver who quit KBR and got his nickname for using a hammer to fight off a knife-wielding Iraqi who tried to climb into the cab of his truck, said his doctor recently told him he might lose the use of his right eye after a December attack. Iraqis shattered his windshield with machine gunfire and bullets whizzed by his ear. Glass got in his eye, and he broke two bones in his shoulder, he said.

His truck was empty at the time.

"I thought, `What good is this?'" he recalled.

Shane "Nitro" Ratliff of Ruby, S.C., who quit working for KBR in February, recalled a harrowing trip in December.

As he was hauling an empty truck to Baghdad International Airport, Iraqis threw spikes under his tires and a brick, a cement-like clot of sand and gasoline through his windshield, scattering shards of glass all over him and into his eyes.

"We didn't have no weapons; I had two rocks and a can of ravioli to fight with," Ratliff said.

Ratliff caught up with his fleeing convoy in his damaged truck and made it to the airport safely. He figured he'd pick up a load there, but he was told to return with another empty trailer.

Iraqi insurgents have killed two civilian drivers.

Kellogg Brown and Root, the Army and the truckers gave different reasons for why empty trucks were driven through areas that the drivers nicknamed "rockville" and "slaughterhouse" for the dangers they presented.

Some of the truckers charged that KBR is billing the Pentagon for unnecessary work. KBR described the practice as normal, given the large number of trucks it has delivering goods throughout Iraq. Army officials said longer convoys may provide better security.

The Army's contract with KBR calls for daily truck runs, but doesn't dictate how many trucks must be in a convoy or whether they must be full, said Linda Theis, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Army Field Support Command in Rock Island, Ill. The area military commander or KBR officials might choose to run empty trucks as a security measure, she said.

KBR denied there was any problem with the truck runs. "KBR is proud of the work we do for the military in Iraq. It is difficult and dangerous work and requires a lot from our employees," said Cathy Gist, a KBR spokeswoman. KBR truckers say they can earn about $80,000 a year, which is tax-free if they remain in Iraq for a year.

The empty trailer runs in Iraq peaked in January, February and March of this year but have dwindled as violence has escalated and forced contractors to reduce the number of trucks in each convoy and how far they travel, the drivers said.

Earlier this year, as many as a third of all the flatbed trucks in a 30-truck convoy were empty, they said. Much of the time, drivers would drop off one empty trailer and pick up another empty one for the return trip.

"There was one time we ran 28 trucks, one trailer had one pallet (a trailer can hold as many as 26 four-foot square pallets) and the rest of them were empty," said David Wilson, who was the convoy commander on more than 100 runs. Four other drivers who were with Wilson confirmed his account.

James Warren of Rutherfordton, N.C., one of the fired KBR drivers, said he drove empty trucks through Iraq more than a dozen times. Besides the risks to the truckers, the six National Guard or Army escorts who provided security were also in danger, he said.

The KBR driver who shot the videotape of the 15 empty trailers on the road in January described it this way: "This is just a sample of the empty trailers we're hauling called `sustainer.' And there's more behind me. There's another one right there. ... This is fraud and abuse right here."

KBR documents viewed by Knight Ridder showed that one February run included 11 "MT" (trucker lingo for empty) trailers, 11 containers (which could be full or empty) and six with pallets on them. On another February day, three of 15 trucks were empty.

KBR officials said empty runs resulted from the lack of cargo at one depot. The company ran all the trucks so they'd be available to pick up cargo for the return trip. "This is the same as typical commercial trucking operations work in the U.S.," said Gist.

Drivers discounted that explanation.

"Sometimes we would go with empty trailers; we would go both ways," said one driver who goes by the nickname Swerve and declined to be named for fear of retribution. "We'd turn around and go back with empty trailers."

An independent expert on trucking economics put the cost of a 300-mile one-way run at a minimum of $1,050. Researcher Mark Berwick at the Upper Great Plains Transportation Institute at North Dakota State University used a computer model, the fuel costs that Halliburton charged the Army and the truckers' salaries to come up with that figure.

Wilson and Michael Stroud, of the Seattle area, another former KBR trucking convoy commander, said the actual costs were probably far higher.

"It was supposed to be critical supplies that the troops had to have to operate," said Wilson, who returned to his home in southwest Florida after being fired by KBR. "It was one thing to risk your life to haul things the military needed. It's another to haul empty trailers."

Peter Singer, a scholar at the Brookings Institution and the author of "Corporate Warrior," a book on privatization of the military, said the use of empty trucks illustrates how the government's contracting system is broken.

The government gives out large cost-plus contracts in which "essentially it rewards firms when they add to costs rather than rewarding them for cost savings," Singer said.

Despite a massive increase in contracts for the war and occupation of Iraq, the Army hasn't increased the number of officials who oversee those contractors. Only 180 Army officials monitor defense contracts and only a little more than a handful of them are in Iraq, Singer said.

---
(Mark Washburn of The Charlotte Observer and Mark Rogers of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram contributed.)
 
It is not at all uncommon for truckers to haul empties one way, although they and the companies avoid it if at all possible since it is wasteful. Both ways is uncommon, but not unheard of.

Now what the situation would be in a country like Iraq without our infrastructure and with all the violence? I don't know, but I wouldn't necessarily chalk it up as a blatant case of fraud.
 
Moreover, I have to ask, what concern is it of yours?

They aren't your tax dollars after all.
 
Just curious

One can assume that HAL being a multi billion dollar company they are run by smart people

One can assume that HAL knowing the scrutiny they are under, rightly or not, would

Not run empty trucks back and forth jsut for purposes of running up their fees

There are so many other ways to run up fees that are not so blatant that they could employ

That there doesnt appear to be the obviousness of the situation as first appears:confused:
 
busybody said:
Just curious

One can assume that HAL being a multi billion dollar company they are run by smart people
I bet IG Farben's worth would be over $1B in today's economy, too.

It doesn't mean their production of Zyklon-B cyanide capsules to kill Jews was in any way smart.
 
The Heretic said:
Moreover, I have to ask, what concern is it of yours?

They aren't your tax dollars after all.

Not directly my concern, I cannot disagree there, but my concern is anybodies public money being wasted.

I used the US Dollars tag as that was in the introduction to the original article.

I am also pretty sure that there are probably a good few UK companies wasting public money and not just in Iraq.
 
LovingTongue said:
I bet IG Farben's worth would be over $1B in today's economy, too.

It doesn't mean their production of Zyklon-B cyanide capsules to kill Jews was in any way smart.

A very smart post.
 
Mistress Lady X said:
Not directly my concern, I cannot disagree there, but my concern is anybodies public money being wasted.

I used the US Dollars tag as that was in the introduction to the original article.

I am also pretty sure that there are probably a good few UK companies wasting public money and not just in Iraq.
You probably should be more concerned about larger wastes of money then right? Why go for the small fish when there are bigger fish right?

If so, then why aren't you complaining about the billions of dollars wasted in foriegn aid which corrupt leaders steal in various countries? THis money is supposed to go to starving people, people who have no health care, and they aren't getting it.

Could it be that you have an agenda that has little or nothing to do with waste of taxpayer funds, and much more to do with an anti-Bush message?
 
The Heretic said:
Could it be that you have an agenda that has little or nothing to do with waste of taxpayer funds, and much more to do with an anti-Bush message?

Now, Heretic, you know better than to call people out on the first page!
 
pagancowgirl said:
Now, Heretic, you know better than to call people out on the first page!
Sorry. :eek:

I just got impatient - besides, I'm going shopping, so I wanted to catch it before it got lost or before someone else did it.
 
The Heretic said:
Sorry. :eek:

I just got impatient - besides, I'm going shopping, so I wanted to catch it before it got lost or before someone else did it.

Drop some groceries off at my house, and I'll forgive you.
 
I can't get too mad at Haliburton--they pay my mother's pension.
 
kotori said:
I can't get too mad at Haliburton--they pay my mother's pension.
I don't like them, or Bush, or the war in Iraq - but if I am going to say I am against them, then I am not going to try to sneak my argument in the back door by hiding behind something that is relatively insignificant.
 
The Heretic said:
You probably should be more concerned about larger wastes of money then right? Why go for the small fish when there are bigger fish right?

If so, then why aren't you complaining about the billions of dollars wasted in foriegn aid which corrupt leaders steal in various countries? THis money is supposed to go to starving people, people who have no health care, and they aren't getting it.

Could it be that you have an agenda that has little or nothing to do with waste of taxpayer funds, and much more to do with an anti-Bush message?

Actually I was saving the IMF and The World Bank for another thread. I got loads of material on them.

And yes I agree corrupt politicians in developing countries are stealing the money meant for food and health aid.

This thread was about an especially large multi national screwing not just the country it's occupying but the tax payers back home.

I'm anti-Bush. So what? I make no apologies for it. The man isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed is he? The man screwed over democracy to secure his shady election.

I am also anti Blair. But I'm not pro Michael Howard (the leader of the main opposiation party in the UK). Blair has fucked over the electorate in this country twice now, and because we don't have the: "two terms" rule he is likely to do it again.
 
I am waiting for your report on the biggest financial scam in history


You know the one dont you?

If you get "so many of these" surly you would have gotten notice of this one as well

Can we expect you to post it and when?
 
The Heretic said:

Could it be that you have an agenda that has little or nothing to do with waste of taxpayer funds, and much more to do with an anti-Bush message?

OK I know I'm replying again to the same post, but it is 1am here.


My original post, and thread starter, wasn't in anyway meant as anti-Bush message.

It was you who mentioned Bush - not me.

I was, and will remain, curious as to what my fellow human beings across The Pond make of the War In/On Iraq, and the facets of it.

Be it prison abuses, (British troops also in the frame for it) or the presence of multi-nationals to rebuild Iraq.

It the human factor that interests me, the sort of news that doesn't get reported in the paper or on tv. I have learned alot since coming to this site a couple of months back.
 
Mistress Lady X said:
I'm anti-Bush. So what? I make no apologies for it. The man isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed is he? The man screwed over democracy to secure his shady election.
Don't agree with either of those assertions. I believe Bush is probably as intelligent as any other politician, possibly more so. I also believe that his election was valid - although that is certainly open to debate.

Personally I hold neither of these things against him - even if they were true. What I intensely dislike is the actions of the Bush admin - specifically actions such as the Patriot Act, and so on. I believe those actions, in and of themselves, are enough reason to want him out of office.

Unfortunately, I don't believe his main opponent, Kerry, has a much better record on those issues. For one thing, he voted for it. For another thing, he has been all over the map in his stance on it.
 
busybody said:
I am waiting for your report on the biggest financial scam in history


You know the one dont you?

If you get "so many of these" shurely you would have gotten notice of this one as well

Can we expect you to post it and when?
Hey Lady X

I am waiting for this, or are you going to IGNORE the largest financial scam in history?

If you are then this thread is not about taxpayer money but rather a political statement!
 
The Heretic said:
Don't agree with either of those assertions. I believe Bush is probably as intelligent as any other politician, possibly more so. I also believe that his election was valid - although that is certainly open to debate.

Personally I hold neither of these things against him - even if they were true. What I intensely dislike is the actions of the Bush admin - specifically actions such as the Patriot Act, and so on. I believe those actions, in and of themselves, are enough reason to want him out of office.

Unfortunately, I don't believe his main opponent, Kerry, has a much better record on those issues. For one thing, he voted for it. For another thing, he has been all over the map in his stance on it.

Before I go too far, can you explain: "the Patriot Act" not heard of that one over here.

I think I get where you coming from with the Bush admin and Kerry thing, I think we in the same vein as when I said Blair not up to much and the opposition not much good either.

And if I'm keeping you from shopping then I am being kept from my bed. 1.20am BST.

No idea what the time is in Seattle.
 
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by busybody
I am waiting for your report on the biggest financial scam in history


You know the one dont you?

If you get "so many of these" shurely you would have gotten notice of this one as well

Can we expect you to post it and when?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Lady X

I am waiting for this, or are you going to IGNORE the largest financial scam in history?

If you are then this thread is not about taxpayer money but rather a political statement!


__________________
 
Mistress Lady X said:
<snip>
Visit http://action.hiphopconvention.org/action/ and Take Action on Halliburton! by sending an email to Halliburton's Board of Directors letting them know exactly how you feel about their recent actions.

Got an issue? Tired of seeing negative images in the media? Tired of seeing your government reps sitting on their arses? Send an email to comments@hiphopconvention.org and we'll take action!

<snip>

I'd just like to point out that no one in America calls their hiney an ARSE. If you're going to try to arouse another country's indignation, try to at least use their own lingo.

And do you really think the Board of Directors of Halliburton or mainstream American politicians are going to take anything seriously coming from some website calling itself "hiphopconvention" -- like THAT's a big voting block!
 
busybody said:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by busybody
I am waiting for your report on the biggest financial scam in history


You know the one dont you?

If you get "so many of these" shurely you would have gotten notice of this one as well

Can we expect you to post it and when?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Lady X

I am waiting for this, or are you going to IGNORE the largest financial scam in history?

If you are then this thread is not about taxpayer money but rather a political statement!


__________________

Any thread or post about tax payers money is a political statement. Doesn't matter whose taxes: US taxes, UK taxes, French taxes.

More on financial scams:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO202C.html

That came pretty much top of the Google UK list for financial scams.
 
Mistrees X

You have proved to be nothing other then another fucking shithead anti American asshole.

Hiding behind the mask of tax payer abuse.

Why are you chicken shit to say so? You would be in good company on this loon lib board!

Oh I know, you are ignoring me!
 
Mistress Lady X said:
Any thread or post about tax payers money is a political statement. Doesn't matter whose taxes: US taxes, UK taxes, French taxes.

More on financial scams:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO202C.html

That came pretty much top of the Google UK list for financial scams.
But you only post those that attempt to make Bush or the US look bad

and are IGNORING the biggest scam in human history that went on just a couple of years ago

Wassa matter doesnt fit your agenda?

May implicate YOUR TYPE of shitty people?
 
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