Hall of Fame suggestion

[Trionyx]

I enjoy reading stories in the various Halls of Fame. I find it frustrating that so many of the “stories” are merely chapters in longer stories. As a result one story can burn several slots bumping other good stories out of the Hall of Fame.

I would therefore recommend that only one chapter from a longer story be allowed in the Hall. It could be set up so that just the highest rated chapter be listed. If someone wants to read it by itself, they can do so, but I would hazard a guess that readers will want to read all the chapters anyway. And if they’re going to read all the chapters anyway, why have multiple chapters use up so much space?

Might take a bit of programming know how, but I think it’d be worth it. Thoughts?

 

[KeithD]

Thinking of spinning wheels. One of many suggestion like this that users have been making for decades. Agree with you. I don't think any chapters should be on the "most" or "awards" lists. They aren't stories; they are only part of a story.

 

[SimonDoom]

This is probably one of those things that's sensible but may not get acted upon.

It is ridiculous and unfortunate the way chapters clog the toplists. It makes it much harder for readers to find stories they want to read, and to give appropriate credit to people whose stories deserve top billing. Attrition accounts for a great deal of the high scores for late chapters, so the score means much less.

I'd recommend averaging the scores of all the chapters and then putting the story as a whole on the list if the average warrants it. I don't know whether that would be easy to do or not.

 

[SamScribble]

While voting system is the way that it is, I’m not sure that having a ‘single story / single chapter’ top list would make a lot of difference.

I would be inclined to leave things as they are and instigate an additional ‘single story / single chapter’ top list rated by a rotating panel of suitably qualified judges. But that’s not the Lit way, is it?

 

[SimonDoom]

The author of one highly-rated story I admire asked that readers not give a rating at all until the final chapter. I agree with KeithD. A single chapter, no matter how commendable in itself, is not a complete work. I have favorite chapters in The Lord of the Rings and War and Peace, but they must be taken only as part of a whole.

The problem with this is that no one will read the story.

Suppose you publish one chapter a week for 10 weeks. If there's no rating until the last chapter, no one will read the story. If the first chapter is really great it makes lots of sense to give it a good rating, and readers will want to see that before starting the story.

 

[Hypoxia]

The problem with this is that no one will read the story.

Suppose you publish one chapter a week for 10 weeks. If there's no rating until the last chapter, no one will read the story. If the first chapter is really great it makes lots of sense to give it a good rating, and readers will want to see that before starting the story.

Which still should not make that and any following high-voted chapters eligible for a Hall of Fame. I automatically skip series where chapters 5, 7, 9, 17, and 32 occupy a category's top slots. Average over the series, I say.

 

[LexxRuthless]

In the Literotica Beta there isn't a Hall of Fame anymore. If this becomes the default going forward, you won't have to worry about it. Instead of "Hall of Fame" it has "Popular [category] Stories." It has no minimum number of votes, so you'll see a handful of stories where authors have allowed a few votes and then locked out voting. If you scroll down to the end of that list, you can click the "More Popular Stories" bar, and it opens a link to the Top Rated Stories in Category page...which is still dominated by chapter entries.

It is an inherent flaw in the ratings system, but it has been that way for a very long time.

 

[KeithD]

Which means I don't even bother looking at it.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

In the Literotica Beta there isn't a Hall of Fame anymore. If this becomes the default going forward, you won't have to worry about it. Instead of "Hall of Fame" it has "Popular [category] Stories." It has no minimum number of votes, so you'll see a handful of stories where authors have allowed a few votes and then locked out voting. If you scroll down to the end of that list, you can click the "More Popular Stories" bar, and it opens a link to the Top Rated Stories in Category page...which is still dominated by chapter entries.

It is an inherent flaw in the ratings system, but it has been that way for a very long time.

Once you lock out voting, the only thing that remains is if the story received a red H. The score is changed to x.xx so that it will not show up in any tops lists.

 

[Saffyre]

Two lists? Stand alone stories and series.

I don’t mind admitting I’m a dummy as far as the internet is concerned and the technical stuff I read on here about spreadsheets and such goes right over my head. So my suggestion may get knocked out of the stadium right away.

Is there any reason why there can’t be two lists? One for stand alone stories and one for series?

I’ve looked at the top lists and, as someone who has never written a series and I should think never will, it has struck me the way the lists are now is crackers for anyone trying to get a reasonable idea of what’s going on. One of the things which is obvious to me, and this has nothing to do with the authors, is how the lists can, and appear to be, obviously manipulated.

I know there are sweeps and I’ve no idea how they actually work but it does seem as if they don’t have any effect on older stories and, as a story needs at least a hundred votes to get on a list it’s probably, in many cases, an older story. Maybe one of the older hands on here can give some idea of how long a story takes to get on a top list.

I’m talking about, in the main, a story getting in the top twenty and, as I’ve already indicated, there are always exceptions with everything in life.

 

[KeithD]

Is there any reason why there can’t be two lists? One for stand alone stories and one for series?

The reason is that the Web site managers have not chosen up pick up on two decades of user discussion on this. Two lists would be a good idea, I think.

 

[SimonDoom]

Is there any reason why there can’t be two lists? One for stand alone stories and one for series?

.

The only reason I can think of is it just adds more complication to the Site. More lists to look at, more data to sift through to find stories. But at this point I agree that this negative is more than offset by the ridiculousness of having many, many chapters of long stories clogging up the toplists. It's getting ridiculous.

I will say that this Site has been making some good upgrades to its format, but this is one change I'm not holding my breath about.

 

[horrorotic]

I'll use this point to clear up something that has interested four people here to PM me with "are you?" questions.

I first came here to publish stories in 2012 and from then until 2015 when all that cabin drama started I was an infrequent poster to the boards, which is why the people who feel compelled to guess who I was or accuse me of being other posters are wrong.

I'm back now with this name for the forums while once again posting stories under my original pen name. Aforementioned 'cabin' decided to jointly attack my story file with bombs and negative comments and feedback for weeks after I did not agree with one of them here. I don't need that drama this time.

With that out of the way, the suggestion to not allow chapters in top lists and contests has been one of the most frequently brought up and it seems almost everyone is in agreement.

It would also be very easy for the folks who run the site to change, and back during one of the farces called the annual awards Laurel promised it would change.

That promise was as genuine as the bi-sexual category promise made to Stella Omega back some time ago. Its said to get people to shut up with no intention to ever act on it.

But it will continue to be discussed because its frustrating to everyone who doesn't write unending rambling 'stories' so they can milk high scores, monthly contest wins and as of recently get money from readers through patreon. They are not writing a story they're playing a system.

But on the other hand that, there's nothing anyone can do about it, and no sense getting upset about it. Its simply the way it is and always will be. No reason to waste much thought on it.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I don’t mind admitting I’m a dummy as far as the internet is concerned and the technical stuff I read on here about spreadsheets and such goes right over my head. So my suggestion may get knocked out of the stadium right away.

Is there any reason why there can’t be two lists? One for stand alone stories and one for series?

I'm not an insider but from what I can see, the "series" functionality appears to be bolted on rather than built in to how the site handles stories - you post Chapter 2, it shows up on your story page as a stand-alone story, and a couple of hours later an automated process comes by, checks story names, and decides this is in fact a series and the parts should be linked together. So it may not be straightforward to run a query to "return only the top-ranked stories that aren't part of a series".

The toplist functionality also appears to be a little fragile - some of the toplist pages were frozen for years without updates. So I wouldn't like to assume that these will play well together.

IMHO the ideal solution here isn't to add a second toplist, it's to improve the search functionality so that readers can construct lists according to their own criteria, with "only series"/"no series" being among options for criteria.

I’ve looked at the top lists and, as someone who has never written a series and I should think never will, it has struck me the way the lists are now is crackers for anyone trying to get a reasonable idea of what’s going on.

Have written series, can confirm.

I know there are sweeps and I’ve no idea how they actually work but it does seem as if they don’t have any effect on older stories

Sweeps definitely do affect older stories. The results are less obvious because older stories tend to have more votes, and since they've been swept several times already it's less likely that there will be a lot of dodgy votes to remove, but I've seen sweeps remove votes from stories that have been up for years.

and, as a story needs at least a hundred votes to get on a list it’s probably, in many cases, an older story. Maybe one of the older hands on here can give some idea of how long a story takes to get on a top list.

It's a hundred votes in most categories, but some of the quieter categories have a lower cut-off - I think that happens if the 100-vote cutoff would mean fewer than 250 stories in the whole category eligible for the toplist.

Time to get on a top list depends very much on the category and the individual story.

Chapters 8-10 of my series "A Stringed Instrument" are where I started recording stats. Each of them took about 30 days to crack 100 votes.

Chapter 11 took 48 days, then dropped back to 99 in sweeps, before returning around day 71.

Chapters 12-14 (end of the story) each hit 100 votes in just two or three days. Different stuff happening in the story and apparently readers were excited about voting on those. These are also the highest-rated in the series.

Elsewhere, my Text With Audio piece "Red Callum, Sweet Cate" is 2269 days old and currently has 53 votes. It's a quiet category...

I think some of the busier stories like I/T can hit 100 votes within hours, but I'll defer to those who know those categories better.

 

[NotWise]

I think some of the busier stories like I/T can hit 100 votes within hours, but I'll defer to those who know those categories better.

Eight to fourteen hours for my stories. I think that people with more followers in the right time zones can make it faster.

 

[SimonDoom]

It's a hundred votes in most categories, but some of the quieter categories have a lower cut-off - I think that happens if the 100-vote cutoff would mean fewer than 250 stories in the whole category eligible for the toplist.

Time to get on a top list depends very much on the category and the individual story.


I think some of the busier stories like I/T can hit 100 votes within hours, but I'll defer to those who know those categories better.

The numbers are extremely dependent on category, to such a degree that there's no point at all in trying to make comparisons across categories.

As far as getting on toplists, it depends in large part on what toplist you are talking about: all time most views? All time highest scores? Category toplists? Every specific category and situation is different. Generalizations do not apply.

I wrote a Celebrity/Fanfiction story that was published almost three months ago, and it still has only 29 votes. Doesn't surprise me much because it's an odd subject matter (Hobbit-Elf sex).

On the other hand, 38 hours ago I published a short stroke-ish Mom-Son incest story and it already has 1169 votes and nearly 40,000 views. It cracked the 30-day most viewed story top list within 24 hours. It will be in the top 50 in 72 hours. It will crack the top 10 before 30 days is up, and by then it will be in the top 200 for the year and moving up. But I have plenty of stories that will never sniff any top lists no matter how much time passes.

The Hobbit story was more interesting and fun to write. If I had to choose publication of one or the other I'd choose it. But there's no question that Incest pulls in the readers. It also significantly boosts readership of the rest of one's body of work.

It's like publishing to completely different markets here. You have to keep that in mind when looking at the numbers.