GWB legtimises Al Gore (stay civil thread)

[neonlyte]

GW has announced today he's calling a summit of 14 industrialised and developing nations to set out plans to deal with Global Warming.

He's a little late to the party, but hey, everyone is welcome.

I can't help but feel this is good news for Gore. He's already up and running on the issue, it's now guaranteed to focus big in the election run-up. Might be diversionary tactic by GW, lay a little worry close to home to distract from Iraq, or he might just have realised there really is a potential problem.

May be we can now stop all these mildly outlandish claims from each side of the political divide and accept the world's major nations now agree action needs to be taken on Global Warming.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

He's just trying to assure his place in History, I think. He knew these things had to be done sooner or later. Doing them this late into his last term means he was able to milk the oil cow for as much as possible, and now he can be the President that made the brave and irrevocable decision to fix things - although it will be up to the next one to actually do it.

 

[neonlyte]

He's just trying to assure his place in History, I think. He knew these things had to be done sooner or later. Doing them this late into his last term means he was able to milk the oil cow for as much as possible, and now he can be the President that made the brave and irrevocable decision to fix things - although it will be up to the next one to actually do it.

Possibly... and the G8 summit comes up in a couple of weeks with Global Warming top of the agenda. GW might otherwise have found himself sat on the toilet reading the Wall Street Journal while the rest tackled the issue.

 

[Grushenka]

Cynical me, I think he's just paving the way for his party's maneuverings. The man knows less than an anchovy about environmental issues, he's being directed and led as usual. I also predict there'll be a price to pay from the other 13 nations, especially the 'developing' ones.

 

[jomar]

I'm pretty cynical about his motivations too. Although I have to say, I wasn't all that impressed watching "An Inconvenient Truth." Not the issue, but I felt like I was watching a loooong MacDonald's commercial - give me the science please, both for and against and conclude why we really should be worried. Forget the emotional sales pitch.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm pretty cynical about his motivations too. Although I have to say, I wasn't all that impressed watching "An Inconvenient Truth." Not the issue, but I felt like I was watching a loooong MacDonald's commercial - give me the science please, both for and against and conclude why we really should be worried. Forget the emotional sales pitch.

You're in the minority there. The film needed to appeal to the lowest common denominators as much as possible- not that it succeeded really, but that's the most profitable point to push.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Not my work but it made me smile:

“Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris, a Sierra Club official serving as USCAP spokesman. "We want them broken. You'd better get it straight That it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against– then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. One declares the very system by which men live – industrial civilization – to be a crime, and makes them feel guilty about their work, food, housing, transportation, recreation, and all the rest. Even about their own families. One makes them hate themselves for the benefits their way of life provides. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted; make their means of living adhere to the ‘precautionary principle' – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."
-- Ayn Rand, _Atlas Shrugged , Ch. III, "White/Green Blackmail"

 

[jomar]

You're in the minority there. The film needed to appeal to the lowest common denominators as much as possible- not that it succeeded really, but that's the most profitable point to push.

I know. *sigh* I just hate the emotional manipulation...makes me think they don't believe the issue/data is strong on its own. I know everybody does it, and that some will only respond to the emotional manipulation and the cherry picker scene (so it must be really bad if the graph goes that high!), but still...

 

[Stella_Omega]

I know. *sigh* I just hate the emotional manipulation...makes me think they don't believe the issue/data is strong on its own. I know everybody does it, and that some will only respond to the emotional manipulation and the cherry picker scene (so it must be really bad if the graph goes that high!), but still...

No issue/data is strong on its own. Humans just don't work that way. Not in crowds, anyways...

 

[neonlyte]

Not my work but it made me smile:

“Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris, a Sierra Club official serving as USCAP spokesman. "We want them broken. You'd better get it straight That it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against– then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. One declares the very system by which men live – industrial civilization – to be a crime, and makes them feel guilty about their work, food, housing, transportation, recreation, and all the rest. Even about their own families. One makes them hate themselves for the benefits their way of life provides. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted; make their means of living adhere to the ‘precautionary principle' – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."
-- Ayn Rand, _Atlas Shrugged , Ch. III, "White/Green Blackmail"

Ooh... you really hit below the belt

Of course this was some time ago and one can't expect that sort of behaviour from today's environmental terr... protagonists. Interesting USCAP's website, with all the Global Warming interest you'd expect it to be buzzing. Their 'What's New' page has entries this year in January and May! Maybe most of them are in prison.

 

[jomar]

No issue/data is strong on its own. Humans just don't work that way. Not in crowds, anyways...

You're right on the crowds thing. But issues and data can be strong on their own. But some products are not profitable and the special interest groups get the spin doctors twirling and poof - gone. Do you recall the EV1 electrical car in the mid90s?
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/223/index.html

Or, even with solid data, GW ignores the science and does what he wants.

eta: cigarettes and the tobacco industry

 

[Liar]

Was Al Gore illegal?
Or illegitimate?

 

[R. Richard]

Was Al Gore illegal?
Or illegitimate?

Yes, Al Gore was illegal. He made fund raising calls from inside the White House, in violation of federal law. Lyin' Al never even attempted to deny that he broke the law, he just cited 'no controlling authority.' [They never prosecuted anyone for it before, so it's not a crime.]
From Wikipedia:
After the 1996 election campaign, Charles Bierbauer and John Judis of the American Prospect magazine alleged that Gore had improperly used his White House office telephone to make fund-raising calls even though Gore paid for the calls using a private credit card. Under the Hatch Act, any use of government property for campaign purposes is forbidden. Section 607 of Title 18 of the U.S. Criminal Code states there is to be no solicitation of campaign funds in federal government offices.

Yes, Al Gore was illegitimate. Al Gore, "I took the initiative in creating the Internet." Suuuuure he did.

In 1999, as a result of the publication of three articles in Wired News, Gore's 1999-03-09 interview on CNN's Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer became the subject of heavy satire in the media. During this interview, Gore stated:

"During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system."

 

[JamesSD]

Regardless of impure motives, I for one will be glad if this represents a shift in the Republican party's stance on Global Warming (aka "It doesn't exist! LALALALALA we're not Listening!!!")

 

[jomar]

...improvements in our educational system."

Maybe Gore learned something. Seems I recall he left Tennessee's in a mess.

 

[Liar]

Yes, Al Gore was illegal. He made fund raising calls from inside the White House, in violation of federal law.

Fair enough. He's a criminal then. Illegal? He is not pot. I can't smoke Gore.

Yes, Al Gore was illegitimate. Al Gore, "I took the initiative in creating the Internet." Suuuuure he did.

That meme taken out of context is so old it stopped being fun in -99.

It's like "a series of tubes". Not totally off the mark in it's original context (an epically silly but not actually off- the-mark attempt att illustrating bandwidth bottlenecks in metaphor), but taken on a spin in the blogosphere, it's hilarious.

 

[R. Richard]

Fair enough. He's a criminal then. Illegal? He is not pot. I can't smoke Gore.

He is an unprosecuted criminal who encourages others to consider crimes if they think they can get away with them. That is illegal.

That meme taken out of context is so old it stopped being fun in -99.

It's like "a series of tubes". Not totally off the mark in it's original context (an epically silly but not actually off- the-mark attempt att illustrating bandwidth bottlenecks in metaphor), but taken on a spin in the blogosphere, it's hilarious.

The quote is from Wikipedia and is directly from an interview with Wolf Blitzer. Of course, it is a politician lying about his achievements and is certainly nothing unusual. However, it seems that Al Gore actually believes his own stuff and that is insane.

 

[yevkassem72]

Not my work but it made me smile:

“Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris, a Sierra Club official serving as USCAP spokesman. "We want them broken. You'd better get it straight That it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against– then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. One declares the very system by which men live – industrial civilization – to be a crime, and makes them feel guilty about their work, food, housing, transportation, recreation, and all the rest. Even about their own families. One makes them hate themselves for the benefits their way of life provides. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted; make their means of living adhere to the ‘precautionary principle' – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."
-- Ayn Rand, _Atlas Shrugged , Ch. III, "White/Green Blackmail"

I really hope that there aren't people who are consciously doing this. It's bad enough that there are so many laws as it is.

I am still asking myself, where is Napoleon when you need him? A comprehensive, unchangeable law code would be a useful thing.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Not my work but it made me smile:

“Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris, a Sierra Club official serving as USCAP spokesman. "We want them broken. You'd better get it straight That it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against– then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. One declares the very system by which men live – industrial civilization – to be a crime, and makes them feel guilty about their work, food, housing, transportation, recreation, and all the rest. Even about their own families. One makes them hate themselves for the benefits their way of life provides. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted; make their means of living adhere to the ‘precautionary principle' – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."
-- Ayn Rand, _Atlas Shrugged , Ch. III, "White/Green Blackmail"

That's the problem with the left - all the people who think like this are on the right!

 

[Stella_Omega]

Not my work but it made me smile:

“Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris, a Sierra Club official serving as USCAP spokesman. "We want them broken. You'd better get it straight That it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against– then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. One declares the very system by which men live – industrial civilization – to be a crime, and makes them feel guilty about their work, food, housing, transportation, recreation, and all the rest. Even about their own families. One makes them hate themselves for the benefits their way of life provides. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted; make their means of living adhere to the ‘precautionary principle' – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."
-- Ayn Rand, _Atlas Shrugged , Ch. III, "White/Green Blackmail"

I really hope that there aren't people who are consciously doing this. It's bad enough that there are so many laws as it is.

I am still asking myself, where is Napoleon when you need him? A comprehensive, unchangeable law code would be a useful thing.

This is a fiction writer she's quoting, Yev.

 

[rgraham666]

This is a fiction writer she's quoting, Yev.

And one who let her sexual predilections colour her writing.

If she'd been honest about it, wrote smut like the rest of us, it wouldn't have been so bad. But she made 'Great Literature' out of it so everyone takes her seriously.

 

[Stella_Omega]

And one who let her sexual predilections colour her writing.

If she'd been honest about it, wrote smut like the rest of us, it wouldn't have been so bad. But she made 'Great Literature' out of it so everyone takes her seriously.

Hmm... If only I can make 'Great Literature' out of my sexual predilections...

She should have been writing honest slash. She would have liked that. I bet the poor thing fought those terrible thoughts in the lonely nights.

 

[rgraham666]

Hmm... If only I can make 'Great Literature' out of my sexual predilections...

She should have been writing honest slash. She would have liked that. I bet the poor thing fought those terrible thoughts in the lonely nights.

Marxists, even 'reformed' ones like her, are often very puritanical. And like all Puritans their sexual drives get really twisted from being locked away in a dark place.

Kinda sad.

 

[yevkassem72]

Marxists, even 'reformed' ones like her, are often very puritanical. And like all Puritans their sexual drives get really twisted from being locked away in a dark place.

Kinda sad.

Ayn Rand was a Marxist? I thought that she was something else. Well, she was an atheist, so perhaps there was a relic of Marxism there. And wasn't she Russian or something?

 

[yevkassem72]

And one who let her sexual predilections colour her writing.

If she'd been honest about it, wrote smut like the rest of us, it wouldn't have been so bad. But she made 'Great Literature' out of it so everyone takes her seriously.

What were her predilcections, anyway? Lesbian? Sadistic? I am curious now.