Grassroots Discussion: Sunnie

[Pure]

Sunnie is up this week, and the story mentioned already is

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=138618

Sunnie will post some questions.

J.

 

[Sunnie]

Well, this is Jared's first tale of his road down Sexual Promiscuity. It's a work in progress, but this story is the tale of his first sexual encounter and how he handled it, and what have you. The ending is a little hurried, I'm aware.

The thing I'm most concerned with is, this is one of my least-popular stories on Lit, and I'm not sure why. Those of you who've read my others, what's the difference between those (the Teacher's Pet series, for example), and this one, that's making this one lose vote points?

 

[Lying Eyes]

Well I know what lost points for me...

Some of my comments before I abruptly stopped reading...

I laughed after reading that first paragraph. It never fails him?! I find that hard to believe. Maybe he looks like Bard Prit? If you described how handsome and/or rich he was then maybe I could beleive his words.

I laughed again after I read this line in the second paragraph,

'If it has been filmed, writen, posted on the net, or fantasized about I probably own it.'

He must live in a huge warehouse!

Now when you started refering to some of the fetish films he owns I automaticly got turned off. After this line I stoped reading,

'I love gay porn, I should elaborate on that... I'm bixesual'

I scrolled back up and double checked the category 'first time'...
I thought maybe this is first time man on man sex story, (and the talk about the horse made me worry that this might something way worse!). Why else is it necessary to have him mention how much he loves gay porn and make it clear he is bisexual? No thankyou, I'm not going to risk reading the rest since I don't want to read about gay sex and even if it isnt I'm already turned off anyway and have no intrest in continuing to read this story. I already got suckered into reading Black Tulip's voyeur story that had a bit of an incest theme to it.

I'm sorry Sunnie.

 

[Sunnie]

'I love gay porn, I should elaborate on that... I'm bixesual'

I scrolled back up and double checked the category 'first time'...
I thought maybe this is first time man on man sex story, (and the talk about the horse made me worry that this might something way worse!). Why else is it necessary to have him mention how much he loves gay porn and make it clear he is bisexual? No thankyou, I'm not going to risk reading the rest since I don't want to read about gay sex and even if it isnt I'm already turned off anyway and have no intrest in continuing to read this story. I already got suckered into reading Black Tulip's voyeur story that had a bit of an incest theme to it.

I'm sorry Sunnie.

If it had been a gay sex story, it would have been posted in Gay Sex. The reason it was important to mention Jared's sexuality is because this is a budding series, and at some point in the series, Jared will go further into his bisexual and/or group sex experiences. Not only that but Jared never said he LOVED gay porn, he simply said he OWNS gay porn.

But thanks for trying ...

 

[Lying Eyes]

I} but Jared never said he LOVED gay porn, he simply said he OWNS gay porn.

Oops, I misquoted the line. My imagination must of created what I expected him to say.

Oh and my refence to Bard Prit?! Brad Pitt, maybe I should read what I type before hitting the submit reply button.

 

[Sunnie]

LOL ... you're fine buddy

 

[dr_mabeuse]

This is a pretty nicely written story, and there was some good stuff in it, but I had some trouble with it.

First of all, I probably wouldn’t choose to read a story called “Confessions of a Male Slut”, because I have an idea of what a guy who refers to himself that way is going to be like, and I’m just not that interested in what he’s going to say. But that’s just a matter of personal taste, and has nothing to do with the quality of the story.

I had a lot of trouble believing it. This is Literotica, and we deal in fantasy, but still, you want the fantasy to be believable. Whether you’re a male or a female, losing your virginity is rather a big deal: one of the giant steps in life. You’d expect there to be more introspection and depth of feeling in this guy, especially since he claims to be so totally naïve and religiously obsessive about his virginity. Instead he just drops his pants and fucks her without a second thought. What happened to all his religious commitment? All that presumable inner strength and moral fiber? He pretty much screws her like he’s been doing it for years, without a second thought. That didn’t seem right.

With her too, I don’t understand why she’s so all over him. Is she just horny? I mean, they’ve been dating for a while, I assume. She must know something about what kind of guy he is. I don’t mean that you have to make a big moral fable about this, but this was very genital sex, without much attention paid to what they thougt or felt about what they were doing. It had a noticable lack of depth.

The second thing I noticed was that the sex itself was not very visual. The genitals were graphically described, but there wasn’t much that helped you see how they made love. I had to scroll up and check to even see where they were. Finally I saw that she was sitting on a couch. That means he must have been standing or maybe kneeling? Or maybe the couch was big enough so that he could get his knees on it too? I don’t know. Anyhow, I couldn’t picture what was going on, and that took a lot of the heat out of the sex for me.

That’s one of the drawbacks of working in first person: you often don’t get a clear picture of what’s going on. Instead the author tells you what he does, and what she does. That can work if the description of her lovemaking is detailed enough to give us lots of visual cues, but I don’t think that was the case here. Anyhow, the sex didn’t work that well for me.

On the other hand, there were some good touches, and I think you have real ability as a writer. I just think you have to pay more attention to what your characters are feeling as well as doing, and get a lot more visual.

Now I'll go read the other reviews and see if I have anything else to add.

Best,

---dr.M.

Added on after reading the reviews:

Okay. I read Lying Eye’s review. He backed out pretty quick, but I have to say that I can sympathize.

Your narrator came off as pretty unlikable at the start, and the truth is, I almost bolted too. Call me a prude, but bestiality totally turns me off, and people who like bestiality—or even find it funny to watch—turn me off as well. I know this guy is supposed to be a male slut, but that doesn’t mean he has to be unlikable. A little humility, a little bit of self doubt or curiosity about himself and his lifestyle would go a long way towards making him more pleasant to be with.

So yeah, the bestiality got me. The blowing guys in the park got to me too. You can be bisexual without going down on some middle-aged guys in the bushes, can’t you? I mean, it’s the difference between being sexy and being sleazy. This guy comes off as sleazy.

When you read a first-person story—or when I do, at any rate—I find myself making a decision after the first couple of paragraphs: do I like this narrator? Is he the kind of guy I want to hang around with for a while and see what he does? Is he interesting? Is he worth my time? Or is he going to embarrass me and make me sorry I stuck with him?

This guy doesn’t look very promising at the start. He's not very nice, but he's not wicked enough to be interesting either. He actually gets better when he gets into his story and by the end he's fairly likable, but I think you might be turning off a lot of people right at the top.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

The thing I'm most concerned with is, this is one of my least-popular stories on Lit, and I'm not sure why. Sunnie

Sunnie,

What follows are just my humble opinions and probably worth way less than you paid for them. Here are a few possible answers to your question, "why?"

The protag comes off as a sleezy jerk. By the time he asks the reader, "I still remember our first time together. Want to hear?" my thought was, why would anyone want to hear/read this egotistical creep from the shallow end of the gene pool bragging about his, "first time?"

Which brings up another problem. There is no story. All that happens is he tells the reader he's a slut and then recounts his "first time." It's a vignette, a slice-of-life, an incident, but not a story with a plot, a beginning-middle-end, and some change. That's no crime against nature, and coming up with plots for "stroke" stories can be a challenge. But some story line usually makes for a better read and therefore, better scores.

I've got a hunch that second problem, assuming it does exist, has had much less impact on your scores than the first one.

Here a couple picky points.

(I'm twenty-seven, if you're wondering), That wording raises the obvious question, how old is he if you're not wondering?

Most of the writer's here at Lit seem to agree that using numbers to describe anatomy isn't a good idea. If in doubt, post a thread on the Author's Hangout about that and check the replies.

Last nut and ache: the characters are flat and two-dimensional while settings are virtually ignored. For instance, the reader gets a detailed description of Natale's body, but nothing about anything else relating to her, not even a last name.

With all that said, it's worth remembering this story has done well with 33 votes and a "H" since mid-April. That's not bad by most folk's standards, even if I don't think it's really a story.

I added that last bit to remind you this is all just my opinion and that I was looking for things which might help explain its score being "lower" than you're accustomed to getting.

You have a real flair for writing. Unfortunately, (at least for me) in Jared, you've got a protag who may be a lover, but isn't very lovable.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Pure]

Hi sunnie,

Well, it's got a kind of fresh start, then it takes a turn to the predictable. The character has some possibilities as a jade and roué, and his in-your-face approach is nice. It's intriguing that you've set him up as bisexual, all-round sex hound.

I suppose you have age restrictions to deal with, but the narrators talk of himself as the young innocent is not convincing at all.

I think I see the problem in that the 'slut' as he is, is narrating;
Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I have the feeling of an unspoken convention (or frequent practice), that a first person narration must have earlier parts congruent with that state of the narrator's knowledge. i.e., "When I started school, I had stomach problems, and Mom seemed worried."

As opposed to "When I started school, I had ileitis with hepatic involvement. Mom's level of ambient anxiety was high." When later information is conveyed, it's often marked: "I had a upset stomach, my first day at school. After a couple years of testing the doctors determined there was a malformation of the pyloric valve."

Neither his religion, nor supposed lack of sexual experience seems plausibly conveyed.

I'll look at two paras.

She was absolutely gorgeous, a fucking goddess of a woman, about 5'7" or 5'8", and slender and sinewy, but curvy, with a wonderfully round ass, plump perky C-cup breasts, creamy soft skin, thick, soft, buttery auburn hair, and dark blue eyes. Every curve of her, from the curve of her breast to the curve of her soft, pouty, cock-teasing mouth, is saturated in sensuality, alluring even the chastest of men

This is a roué's description (whose writing has been shaped by reading too much bad porn). As far as story quality goes, it's pretty much by the book. Rote.

===
I leaned forward, looking up at her as I did so, and ran my tongue lightly along the sides of her pussy lips. She gasped sharply. I worked my way toward her clit, lightly and slowly, examining her and probing her with my tongue. Her fingers slid through my hair, her hand wrapped itself around the back of my head, pulling me closer to her, silently begging for more. I breathed in her musky scent, clean and totally aroused. My mouth closed over the hard little nugget of her clit, and finally she let out a long, deep moan.

Again, this is amazing anatomical knowledge. I certainly didn't have everything worked out and labeled the first time. Clearly the narrator's *present knowledge is conditioning this description.

----
I haven't seen the rest of the chapters, but it's going to be tricky --and a long road--to get to the 'fuck anything' stage.

Your plan is to backtrack; 'here's how it all started.' How does one bring that off. It turns pretty conventional formulaic porn, with a hot pussy who's ready for action. Had the 'pussy' for instance, scoffed at him and turfed him out, I'd see more reason for his 'I'll fuck anything' and callous attitude.

You did backtrack a bit, in describing some 'gay' sex scenes. These could be interesting. But the ball is dropped by the long straight scene after. I suppose the plan may be to pick up the gay thread?

It appears your problem is that the fellow is so comprehensive in his tastes, and immersed in all kinds of porn and sex, it's going to be a long story how he got that way. Probably it would be best to have, early on, some more variety in his sexual experience, be they gay, fetish, or whatever.

My guess is that the raters were disappointed in the last episode, which is pretty run of the mill. I admit it's possible to start with an innocent thing, but the opening raises expectations.
One might expect a little high school scene with a locker room thing that escalates into an orgy.

Overall, the mechanics aren't bad, but the writing is overly lush; many of the adjectives are the predictable staples of 5000 other literotica stories. There are no signs of 'tightening,' rewriting, or editing.

The story's best feature is that there's a start of a character with lots of verve, and there's a start of a helluva lotta variety of escapades.

J.


PS: Added after reading my distinguished colleagues. I personally don't have a problem with a 'fuck everything' kinda guy. Further even a _shallow_ fuck-everything, 'unlovable' guy can make an interesting story, and the author starts to: i.e. the guy is sure he's not gay, but his own stories show a real cockhound.

I have the impression my colleagues want him toned down and cleaned (straightened?) up a bit. I'm the opposite. I'd want the action dirtied up. BUT, we're in agreement that the premier 'launch' scene of this avid cocksman's career is pretty conventional, and marked by some tenderness. That clashes with the beginning.

I agree with mab, in that you have to think of the audience you are aiming for. Straight (male) people, a good proportion, will not like its gay context. OTOH, as mab implied, if your lead's going to be a wicked 'bi' and the story is to 'sell' to wicked 'bi's (at least in their own minds), it had better get livened up. (The captioning of the story could help alert readers of delicate sensibilties.)

 

[Black Tulip]

Sunnie,

First of all I liked the tone of your story. The way you used first person POV gives me the impression of a real bad boy. Not nice, but it could be interesting. I am with Pure on this. Make him real bad.

It would be good to have a critical eye on your choice of words. You tend to use the same word a few times in a given paragraph.
2nd para for instance: Give me some credit and give me a little credit

On the other hand, you would also be surprised at how many strapping young college athletes are sucking dick on the side. This, too, makes me popular, since I'm fairy well hung
Huh? He is popular because he is a young man willing to give a blowjob, but he is also popular because he has a big dick? I thought he was giving blowjobs? And what has that got to do with college athletes?

This was usually the point where I'd say something about how it was wrong and evil and immoral and depraved, but when I thought even for a split second about sinking my already-hard cock into her beautiful pussy
and in the same paragraph
one of those words even came close to an accurate description of how I felt. A mental picture flash into my brain for half an instant: my fat cock sinking slowly into her hungry pussy.

For the first time, I realized I wanted her more than I'd known, wanted her bad enough to forget who I was and what I thought I knew about the world, and just give in to her eyes, her kiss, my throbbing cock.
Why? If he has been saving himself for marriage because of his beliefs there has to be something more to make him forget.

I nearly fell over with anticipation as she slowly wormed my cock the rest of the way down her throat.
Anticipation does not feel right here, not for me at least. He's a virgin so how does he know what to expect?

The actual sex scene is too forward. I think this ties in with what the others have said. For a first time he is very frank and relaxed. No anxiety, will God punish him? No insecurity, will he be any good? Will he know what to do? Remorse? Guilt?

she was not very well used, and my thick cock hurt her just a little.
How can he know that? It's his first time.

My major issue is that his attitude is not consistent with a real first time. And you have to make me understand why he erred from the straight and narrow. If you build in some heavy soulwrenching, I can more easily believe him turning slut. Having sinned anyway ....

I want you to make me see why he turned into a slut.

Having said all that, I hope you remember I started off with saying I liked your style. The way "I" talks to me is very good, in my opinion.

 

[Pure]

PS. I just want to add, related to my and BT's posting, that the narrator as a 'bad boy' is quite good (well done, in some ways); considering that sunnie is a woman, I give her full credit for capturing one of the 'male essences.' To be frank, much of the story seems very male in voice, but (with hindsight) the tender, nostalgic ending perhaps gives it away.

J.

 

[Sunnie]

Thanks guys.

Pure and Tulip have pretty much got the idea of how the rest of the series will go. Jared *is* an asshole, he *is* a sleaze and pretty much always has been, even in his Christian days he was one of those self-righteous stuck-up motherf**kers who think they know it all. What you're saying is he wasn't *enough* of an asshole, I think.

He will definitely go into his bisexual experiences as the series goes on. I'm starting to think I should have stuck a "Chapter One" on the beginning of the title...lol. Yeah, well, sometimes I'm retarded.

For the record, Pure, you're right -- I never have my stories edited. *shakes head* I think I'm too proud, all around.

And I beleive it was the Good Doctor who asked if one can't be bisexual without sucking off middle-aged men in the bushes? I know you're straight, Doc, [or I think you are?] so you probably aren't aware of this, but 95% of all bisexual men over 40-ish use this particular means for release. Homosexual activity carries a much deeper stigma for men that age than today's young'uns, and they literally have to hide to get what they are looking for. They'll use parks, adult bookstores, anything they think won't get them caught. These men are almost always married. There's a whole underground world surrounding it... Don't ask me how I know.. Or better yet, DO ask me.

Tulip asked about Jared's "package" in relation to his sexuality -- why is he popular with the college boys if he seems to be a bit of a bottom? Jared's actually a switch. And YES, I could have gone into that further, but Pure was right when he said that this particular story is the "how it all began" of Jared's plunge into sexual depravity. So to branch off into a complete explanation of his sexuality, I thought, would have been to take away from the general point of this story.

The overall vibe I'm getting here is that this story is weak at best on its own, but has the potential to evolve into a decent series. Am I right?


Next Question:
When I write Part Two, what would you like to see? What kinds of things should Jared deal with, think about, face, *do* ... Remembering he's an asshole, Pure's right again, he will need to face some kind of emotional turmoil to push him further into the realm of the asshole (no pun intended....LOLOL!). Should Natalie leave him? Should he leave her? I'm open to suggestion.

Thanks guys.

 

[Black Tulip]

Hi Sunnie,

Next question should be easy. If he is so besotted with this girl, let her make him do something that's disgusting to him. Push him over the edge in some way.

She corrupts him and then leaves him for: the minister? LOL

 

[Pure]

BT, that's it exactly. The Natalie scene is far too idyllic. Let Natalie, having fucked his brains out, and apparently nuts about him, change to a colder person. Let her teach him, but it's actually 'grooming' him for a threesome with her *real bi lover, who has a huge cock. (or some other betrayal). Our innocent is "forced" into the disgusting threesome before he knows what's happening and gets drilled in all orifices!. Something like that.

 

[Sunnie]

*nodnodnodnod*

Not to mention Natalie having those condoms in her purse, and Jared really didn't give it much of a second thought. *hmmm...*

 

[Lying Eyes]

Here are some questions not necesarily just directed to Sunnie but other writers who chose that path. Forgive my long winded and sort of off topic remarks.

Why write about an asshole, jerk, scumbag? Why make the main character this way? Why make him evil? Why not make him sluty yet still have some redeeming values?

I mean if I'm writing a story I want to create the main characters as someone the readers can like or relate too. In this case the only people that can relate to him are other pricks.

dr_mabeuse words, "...is he going to embarass me and make me sorry I stuck with him?"

This is exactly how I felt a few days ago after I stuck with a lame story that pissed me off in the end. This story wasnt the best written piece but I thought the idea was different enough to force me to read through the work. Basicly the main character regreting his wife getting breast implants and tells the story of what happened. The wife starts as a loving inocent flat chested woman but after the boob job its like the implants were put in while her soul is sucked out. She turns into a depraved cheating slut wife and her husband becomes a wimp. And I'm thinking why must the author turn them into characters that people will hate? And from reading the public comments it seems that not only do other readers hate what happened and despise the husband and wife but they want to kick the author in balls too, LOL. I'm thinking if I am writing the story I would have the husband grow some balls and confront his wife and leave her. Maybe have her end up losing the implants after medical complications and realizing that there was only one man that gives a damn about her now. Eventualy trying to patch things up with her husband. In the end I would make the couple stronger after they resolved the drama.

I don't understand, why depress the reader?

I don't mean in a way like Colleen Thomas's superb story "The last fuck goodbye" which is very depressing but is very touching also. That I understand and consider a beautiful work of art. But these other stories that the characters become worse examples of human beings in the end... I just don't get it. If its not a simple stroke story and the author spends time developing the character(s) why don't you make them better off in the end then the beginning? This is how I aproach writing. And I don't mean stories have to be perfect people with a perfect fantasy. This is a problem I had with lucky-e-leven's well written story discussed here. Their was no real drama in that piece. I believe a story needs some friction or tension. The story I'm currently finishing up on, I'm trying to make it clear that some emotional baggage is cleared up and the main character is lifted up from her sorrow. I don't see why a writer would want to move in the oposite direction.

Let's say I was forced to write the final chapter for the "Confessions of a male slut." I know exactly what I would have to do. He would have to come to terms on why he is a jerk. Maybe he fell in love with this girl he lost his virginity with and she stabed his heart so bad that he ends up only having emotionless sex and only wants to use other people like he was used. I would want to show his remorse for his behaviour in the end and him trying to redeem himself for all of his misdeeds. And if I could pull it off and make the reader feel sympathy for him and make the character truly atone for his actions then I would write him finaly recieving true love from someone else who loves him the same way. I want him to become a better person in the end. I'm not saying this is what Sunnie should do, just what I would be compelled to do.

This makes my memory move even further back from some comments from an author on the feedback forum months ago. She was distressed that she was recieving some vicious feedback from a reader. I first thought it was just a troll trying to get a buzz out of insulting her. Her comments were something like, I guess some people like hurting others. And then I read her story and I thought she was blind! The story read like a true story as if it was the author telling what happened to her. Basicly a cheating wife story, she has an afair with someone she met on the net. The end of that story kind of gave me the chills with her sneaking back into bed after a one night stand, her husband soundly asleep oblivious to the huge betrayal she just commited. The husband isnt made as someone who deserves this and the man who got laid is made as more of a player then someone that loves this woman. I'm wondering why the author doesnt realize why she is recieving vicious feedback. Its simple he was hurt by the story and wants to hurt her back. Maybe he was just like the husband in his real life or maybe worried that he may become like that sleeping husband who does not know his heart was just stomped on and wedding vows tossed away. I don't understand this, why create something in words that saps someones spirit? I believe this guy who attacked her in feedback felt like he was dragged in the mud.

I don't undestand why create a story that is going to make some readers feel like crap? I just don't get it.
I'm sorry for my long rant...

 

[Sunnie]

AH HA! I have had an epiphany. I now know how the second chapter will go. I'm excited.

 

[drlust]

Hi:

I liked the story, but I did find some parts of it inconsistent. I know others have already remarked on this, but here's my two cents worth as well:

1. Jared seems just a bit too good for a virgin. I don't know a single man who went down on his first lover first. I'm willing to bet almost 100% of men (okay, the exceptions out there will write in to criticize me, I know) begin their sexual experiences either with a hand job, a blow job, or just straight fucking, probably in the missionary position. So for Jared to lose his virginity by engaging in some fairly sophisticated oral sex just doesn't quite work. Similarly, his varying of his pace while actually fucking her is something lovers learn--they aren't born with it. I'm more willing to believe that once inside her, he went for broke.

2. I miss the wonder a first time lover would have in this situation. You write about it a bit, but it seems to me that for Jared the most important sensations...other than the incredible lust he's feeling...would be wonder at his first lovemaking. I don't get enough of that sense of wonder.

3. There isn't quite enough description of how he's feeling as the actual lovemaking unfolds. Maybe this is contradictory with what I wrote in #1--where he's likely to just be focused on getting inside her and going for broke--but too often in stories on this site (sometimes including my own) we don't have enough prose about just what the man is feeling physically.

4. Finally, the pacing bothered me just a bit. The first paragraphs--those dealing with the present--are confrontational and in your face and move along briskly. The second "half" dealing with his first time move at a more leisurely pace. I guess I have a hard time reconciling the same person describing sex so offhandedly in the beginning and in such detail in the second half. It comes across as two different narrators. Maybe that's what you wanted...but it bothered me a bit.

Overall, I liked the idea for the plot and would want to read a second installment.

Allan (aka drlust)



My stories

 

[dr_mabeuse]

About the idea of the wicked narrator: There's a difference between being wicked or even evil and just being a rank asswipe. DeSade and even hannibal Lechter areis fascinating for their evil,and there are plenty of other fascinating bad boys out there, but to me, Jared just comes off as a small-time sleaze. He seems like the kind of guy who's always grabbing his balls in public and jacking off in other people's bathrooms.

What's the difference between an interestingly evil narrator and a jerk? I think it has to do with the intent and activity of the character. I think Jared is just too passive and "whatever" to be interestingly wicked. He's not actively bi; he'll just take whatever comes his way. He doesn't set out to seduce Natalie; she seduces him. He talks like he's a bad boy, but he's really just a potlicker, scarfing up on whatever falls off the truck and then talking it up and thinking himself a big guy.

So that's what's wrong with him, in my view. He should be a wolf. Instead he's a weasel.

---dr.M.

 

[Sunnie]

About the idea of the wicked narrator: There's a difference between being wicked or even evil and just being a rank asswipe. DeSade and even hannibal Lechter areis fascinating for their evil,and there are plenty of other fascinating bad boys out there, but to me, Jared just comes off as a small-time sleaze. He seems like the kind of guy who's always grabbing his balls in public and jacking off in other people's bathrooms.

Hold on now. You're talking about a WHOLE different scale of sleaze when you're talking about people like de Sade and Hannibal Lecter. That's not sleaze, it's pure friggin' EVIL. Jared's a slut, not a murderer or cannibal or some other type of monster. It's really very easy to give monsters depth and interesting-ness. A slut? How deep, really, can you go there? *shrug*

What's the difference between an interestingly evil narrator and a jerk? I think it has to do with the intent and activity of the character.

Exactly. And remember, we haven't seen enough of Jared yet to know what his intents and activites really are.

I think Jared is just too passive and "whatever" to be interestingly wicked.

That's true enough, when I re-read the first parts of the story, before he tells his story about how Natalie came barging into his life. He seems to be the kind of person who has shut off all emotion for fear of actually feeling anything again. The question is, what made him get to that point? Hopefully we'll answer that question soon enough -- this series is beginning to write itself, I don't have much control anymore.

He's not actively bi; he'll just take whatever comes his way. He doesn't set out to seduce Natalie; she seduces him. He talks like he's a bad boy, but he's really just a potlicker, scarfing up on whatever falls off the truck and then talking it up and thinking himself a big guy.

So that's what's wrong with him, in my view. He should be a wolf. Instead he's a weasel.

---dr.M.

There again, I raise the question of activity and intent. What's the difference between a "wolf" and a weasel? What's the difference between a "wolf" and a fucked-up psycho like Hannibal Lecter? Really, aren't all sluts, Male *OR* Female, weasels in their own way? There's no way to make promiscuity appealing. Period. The good thing about this first installment is that I have apparantly left myself plenty of room to develop Jared as a character. We can make him interesting, we can make him alluring or whatever we want to do. But the real truth of the matter is that there is no possible way I can make the fact that he's a slut appealing to anyone. I want him to be the guy you hate, but are too curious to quit hanging around him.

Well whatever.

 

[Black Tulip]

Sunnie,

I think what transpires here is a difference in attitude towards bad.

Lying Eyes for example is not very happy with bad people unless they repent.
And if I understand dr. M correctly he wants the bad guy to be really evil.
That leaves a third possibility: the bad guy who does things he shouldn't and therefore attracts your attention. You may condemn his actions but at the same time they fascinate you. Secretly wishing you had the guts to do the same maybe?

Not sure if this helps.

 

[Sunnie]

Sunnie,

I think what transpires here is a difference in attitude towards bad.

Lying Eyes for example is not very happy with bad people unless they repent.
And if I understand dr. M correctly he wants the bad guy to be really evil.
That leaves a third possibility: the bad guy who does things he shouldn't and therefore attracts your attention. You may condemn his actions but at the same time they fascinate you. Secretly wishing you had the guts to do the same maybe?

Not sure if this helps.

I think you hit it right on the head, actually.

 

[Sunnie]

Hi:

I liked the story, but I did find some parts of it inconsistent. I know others have already remarked on this, but here's my two cents worth as well:

1. Jared seems just a bit too good for a virgin. I don't know a single man who went down on his first lover first. I'm willing to bet almost 100% of men (okay, the exceptions out there will write in to criticize me, I know) begin their sexual experiences either with a hand job, a blow job, or just straight fucking, probably in the missionary position. So for Jared to lose his virginity by engaging in some fairly sophisticated oral sex just doesn't quite work.

Wow, I really want to know what guys you hang out with ... LOL ... here's my point of reference, wanna hear? I've been the proud deflowerer (is that a word?) of four different virgins. All of these boys I knew and was friends with for quite some time before I robbed them of their chastity. Only one of them had never been further than fingering (as in he'd never had a blow job and he'd never given oral sex either), but they ALL started out with oral sex. One of the lucky virgins I dated for about six weeks before he gave it up, and we'd been exchanging oral pleasure for quite some time before that. So that's all I know. Granted a person like Jared who'd avoided all sexual contact up to that point probably wouldn't have thought to do it ... But then again, some people are natural-born lovers. Is Jared? Don't know. But it sure looks like it.

Similarly, his varying of his pace while actually fucking her is something lovers learn--they aren't born with it. I'm more willing to believe that once inside her, he went for broke.

Sure, that's believable, but not always the case. Again, of the four virgins I've been with, only one blew it after just a few minutes. The others were too curious and too interested in keeping it going, too interested in seeing how many tricks they could do, and they went on for at least half an hour.

3. There isn't quite enough description of how he's feeling as the actual lovemaking unfolds. Maybe this is contradictory with what I wrote in #1--where he's likely to just be focused on getting inside her and going for broke--but too often in stories on this site (sometimes including my own) we don't have enough prose about just what the man is feeling physically.

Being a woman, I wouldn't know. I do the best I can with what plumbing I've got... lol

Overall, I liked the idea for the plot and would want to read a second installment.

Allan (aka drlust)



My stories

I'm glad you feel that way. I've read a few of yours and you are a very good writer...I always enjoy feedback and encouragement from good writers... I juwst had to dispute the whole virgin thing .. lol

 

[drlust]

I stand corrected and bow to your experience! I, of course, was only a virgin once (so many years ago now I can hardly remember it, lol). My point of reference for my comment is from past reading of stories by women describing their experiences with boys who fit more into the group I described. I'm glad to know there are more attentive first-timers out there!

Allan

 

[Sunnie]

I stand corrected and bow to your experience! I, of course, was only a virgin once (so many years ago now I can hardly remember it, lol). My point of reference for my comment is from past reading of stories by women describing their experiences with boys who fit more into the group I described. I'm glad to know there are more attentive first-timers out there!

Allan

And you know, maybe I just got lucky or picked them right or something, I don't know. LOL