Grassroots Discussion: A7inchphildo

TongueTyler

Really Really Experienced
Joined
Aug 4, 2003
Posts
346
Thanks to everyone for reading and giving some great advice.

I will leave the story here, and all are welcome to read it as they wish. Note there are several areas that need to be fixed. If you wish to leave a comment or found something not already discussed please do. If you look over the posted replies first it may help in making the story a bit more enjoyable.

If you wish to just leave a simple note on your opinion you may do so as well. To really jump in and make a long indepth post may not be the best use of your time.

I will still read it. However many of the areas have been discussed positively.

Enjoy!



This is a more or less romance story of the voodoun religion in Jamaica. Most all the details are of true origin. There are 6269 words if that is too long for anyone don't feel you have to read it.
I have not posted it as of yet because of several areas I have questions about. It is not my normal get to the point sex story.

I prefer you read my questions after you have read the story. But that is up to you.
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Is there enough erotic scenes?

Should the ending be different?

I thought about the ending being a rape scene, then the confrontation. what do you think?

Is the time displacement easy to follow?

The Jamaican dialect with the translation next to it. Is that a pain in the ass to read? Does it hinder the story or give it a Jamaican feel?

How boring is it between erotic scenes? What could be cut down and what should be elaborated on?

Did you get a sense of real feelings from the story?

Is the story visual enough, to know what the enviroments are like?

I know this is not a real wanker of a story, it could be. I was in one of those softer moods when I started it. I kind of like it soft though. If I was to move this from the romance category into another category. My thoughts were to place a rape scene at the end, and elaborate more on the drugged night ritual sex. Perhaps change the wife scene into a bit more harsh dom, and call the story Non-consent.

I just know I am going to get the average 7,000 views in the romance category and that bugs me most of all. What would you do leave it alone or manipulate it into another category?

Thanks in advance. I will do my best to respond to every comment asap.

Phil

PS the story will be posted under TongueTyler. And as always I could care less how hard you slam it. Just be honest if it sucks say it sucks. I can live with that before it is posted.

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Voodoo Don’t Work on You?
A Caribbean love story of a fate with no control

The story I am about to share with you is a personal experience. The facts are mostly true, the people are real. I must hide the identity, as you are aware.

The date is 1962, April the Tenth. The “Jamaican Labor Party” is announced victorious. In another place on the other side of Kingston Jamaica, away from all the celebration there is a newly married couple of wealth which is peacefully bedding down for their consummation of vows. They have chosen Kingston as so many others have for the rich cultural roots and large city style life it embraces.

The morning news runs out as the papers and radio broadcast dampen slightly the news of the victory so earnestly welcomed by the Jamaican people. Over the radio, “A couple de marriage from the parish of St. Ann has been slain inna most vicious attack. It look to have been burglars, uh did see dat? Report to authorities A who dat?”



On April 9, 1992 I was gloriously married, and my new bride and I had planned our honeymoon on the exotic shores of Jamaica. We arrived the day following the ceremony in Montego Bay and found our decrepit minibus. The driver, Paul, acknowledged all on board and extended a most vibrant welcome, “Irie”. (“cool, good, nice”) At which time he briefly mentioned the two hour bus tour to the hotel resort Couples in Runaway Bay. Then he rambled on about obscure facts and things to do while visiting.

The excitement was a growing knot in my stomach. I had wished for this moment to arrive for over six months now. I had visited every site on the net. I had researched all the information available. The resort catered to every whim and included all amenities. The nude island was the grand focal point as my thoughts slipped into a dream about to become a reality.

“HONK, honk!” I awakened as the bus sidestepped around a goat and just past an oncoming car. My thought changed quick, ‘holy shit’ I was going to die just moments away from my dream vacation. “Thudump!” I knew now we did not miss the ragged goat. The bus pulled to the side. The driver Paul exited the bus, and then was loudly talking to another Jamaican man.

Driver: "A fe me cyar." ("It's my car.")

Man: "Chobble nuh nice." "Yuh inna big chobble." ("Trouble is not nice." "You are in big trouble.") "Di wola dem a me fambly."(“All of them are my family.")

Driver: Pointed at us in the bus. "Ef yuh chobble 'dim, me a guh bax yuh". ("If you trouble them, I am going to hit you.")

Shaken, my wife grasped my hand and mentioned we should get off the bus and stretch or something. Stepping out I noticed the dead carcass and looked away, not needing that in my thoughts of passion tonight. It was too late; etched in my mind like a photograph. The blood streaked down the side of the bus and parts were torn. Chunks of bloody flesh and hair enveloped the rear axle, bumper and street behind.

Keeping my wife’s eyes away I led her toward a roadside shanty across the way that sold beer. Soon other couples followed as it was now evident this was going to take a while. I sipped a Red Stripe beer and my wife became friendly talking with others from the bus.

Looking about, I meandered behind the bright colored shack. The ocean was so beautiful, it was a blue/green that was more than I could capture even in a picture. The water glistened to my sight, the phosphor made it appear to glow. I was entranced, strolling closer to the water’s edge, I was disturbed.

“You dayer, what you are trespassing fer mon?” Spoken by a woman behind me, with a certain deep bitterness in her voice.

I turned around to view an older woman of freakish proportions. I lie not, she stood at least seven feet tall, with a very dark complexion and intimidating, big in mass. I explained the whole bus incident and apologized for the intrusion. Other native onlookers seemed to giggle from a distance.

This woman looked at me and said, "Mi cyan 'elp yuh wit dat problem." ("I cannot help you with that problem.") “Give me ten dollars, and USA monies, no Jay money. I tell you what you need to know.”

I was not about to argue and handed her ten dollars and made past her toward the crowd of tourists. I did not piss my self but was rather uneasy. I heard the woman speak and I halted my step, listened without turning about.

"Yuh nuh dun yet?"("You have not finished yet?")

I turned around and this woman proceeded to tell me she knows who I am and why I have come back home. (I thought she was a wacko, a big one) She told me I did not know yet but soon would know all. She pointed to a young girl who might have been sixteen and explained that this was my love. The other was a serpent. She claimed the goats blood spilled for a purpose. All the while she talked she continued holding this odd stick in front of me with fashioned beads stringing from it.

I mentioned, “I am married,” showing her the ring and I commented, “I think this little one is a bit young besides.” I thanked her as I backed away cautiously. Just before I turned the corner of the shanty I heard her: "Galang bout yuh business." ("Go along about your business.") "See yu pan Satday.” ("See you on Saturday.")

I joined with the others as a new bus had already arrived. I was explaining to my wife, loudly I gather, what happened and she laughed.

Paul said, “Schoolas, small up unnu self man mek Daddy siddung.” (“Please make some room in the bus so this man can sit.”) Turning to me "Is dat ooman deh did tek yu money?" ("Is that the woman that took your money?"), pointing out the window.

I answered, “Yes! And she thinks I am going to hook up with that little one over there.”

Paul looked at me and in an all-serious tone voiced, “Tap di blinkin lyin, yuh ole liyad.” (“I wish you would quit lying.”) "Put de bag unda de seat." ("Put the bag under the seat.") and Paul moved to the front driver's seat, pulling away like it was the Indy 500. The new bus was more like a large van and cramped.

I looked out the window and searched this woman’s features for a brief moment so I would remember her. Then turned around and sat next to my wife. Puzzled at the event I shook my head as if to clear an “etch a sketch” board in my mind.

Ten minutes later we arrived at the resort. I was dripping sweat and relieved to be here at last, fourteen hours from door to door with one layover and one minor accident. I smiled at my wife as she went to check in at the desk. I waited for our luggage to be unpacked. Naturally ours was last and it was on top I thought.

I reached to tip Paul and he grasped my hand saying, “Thank you mon.’ taking the money quickly,’ Tis be no joke, she be a witch.” With that said he slammed the rear hatch and determined to speak no more, left to drive away hastily.

I honestly gave it no more thought. My wife and I enjoyed the luxurious accommodations and lived like a King and Queen for the week. The resort was all my mind had dreamed of and more. The sex filled week had so many scantily clad women to admire along with my wife’s own teasing.

On Sunday we arranged for our ride to the airport, where we dauntingly stood in line for customs. I never thought twice about the woman until we boarded the plane. Then I felt relief. “Ha” I thought, "she was wrong." The big plane taxied out the little gate and lined up. Then with a “schwoop” the Jet engines roared. My body thrusting back into the seat became limp and relieved.

Now, flying on Air Jamaica of course the propaganda was going to reflect Jamaica. I pulled out this book from the pouch in front of me and it was called “Destination Jamaica”. I let it slip and as I caught it, the book was opened to page 131 for those of you who might have a copy. The topic was “Arts and Crafts” with a photo of an old painting displayed. I became flush, this was the woman. The subtitle read, “Girl in blue, often referred to as the father of Jamaican art”. This was ridiculous, this was a painting looking at me. But it looked so much like her, just different. I snapped the book closed. My thought made me smile, “it is Sunday ‘bitch’, you are too late. See ya!"



Time had passed over a year easily. Now I do not know if you believe in a Hex, Hocus Pocus, Mumbo jumbo Voodoo crap. I wouldn’t, plain and simple, it was foolish nonsense to me.

Being a man of the world I had many commitments that kept me from pondering the strange occurrence.

At the top of the list being this woman whom I married. She was by every description a man could give, a looker, a real “10”. This might seem to be the ultimate wife to most who desire a flirtatious woman. The obsession that has consumed her was not exactly what I thought of when we married.


Not knowing the date as it was a memory I rather dismissed, I entered the driveway of my estate style home. I did not recognize the green F150 parked in the driveway, so I checked my appointment book and there were no arrangements made for the rest of the day.

Upon entering the house I could see clothing plastered on the floor and over the cabinets. Not being inquisitive for fear in what I would find, I placed the clothing in a pile on top of the table and left a concise note above it. “I think I need some time alone, ‘Don’t call’.”

I stayed with a friend and his wife for a few days. I needed to have an open ear to listen and reason with. Friends do not always give good advice, but their intentions are good. Shortly after I found myself back living the lie that I knew so well. It is easy to forgive but not so easy to forget.



In March 1996 I found myself on a Delta Airbus looking out the window at this tiny boat in the ocean. “Bing!” “This is your captain speaking. We are on final approach for Montego Bay. Estimated time of arrival is twenty minutes.” I looked over across the aisle and my friend and his wife were grinning from ear to ear. I looked at my wife and I received a cheerless smile with a look of wonder about her marriage.

We flew in on a Wednesday to avoid the weekend rush, besides this gave us two days to adjust for the weekend and the never ending theme parties. The wicked person that my wife had become was more evident than ever. Only two days into the vacation and I could not stand to be with her. Imposing upon my friends, I would leave her with them as they toured different locations in the area.

On Saturday morning I awoke early, around five and with coffee in hand I proceeded to walk the beach, when I came to a man who was selling conch shells in the water.

He said boldly, "Ello, mi can help yuh wid someting?" ("Hello, can I help you with something?")

I shook my head no.

He added, “Evrytin irie mon!”(“Everything good friend!”)

He proceeded to explain his name was Shellman and he wanted to make it all better here in Jamaica for me. I laughed, it was not like I never had been approached before. I laughed because I needed to be drugged or I might just kill my wife I thought. Shellman explained he could get what ever my needs were.

I explained I had no money with me. I was not shopping, just walking the beach.

Shellman said, "De nex time yu will buy."("The next time you will buy.")

Handing me a black pill, I noticed that it had the texture of horse grain. Shellman had an explanation of it’s just like a strong aspirin only better.

I looked at it, then at him in complete uncertainty. In that moment, a sight caught my eye further up the beach. A young couple embraced each other with tender kisses as they took in the romantic view of the sun rise. My heart broke instantly; I placed the pill to my lips.

Shellman said, "Go on mon nyam.”(“Go on man eat.”)

Taking the last bit of coffee I watched the two young strangers and swallowed.

The colors were sadistic in shades. Lightning bolts flew through my mind, I could not even consider who I was. My eyes were open but my mind could not register what I saw. My fondest memory of that pill was the moment I knew I was vomiting on my self. I was not concerned with too much of anything, still in a daze. The sunlight was fading as my eyes tried without attainment to focus on the streams of light that passed through the green leafed trees. My body heaved as I dejected more vomit.

Two men picked my limp body up and doused me in an ice cold stream. I was unable to move my limbs or speak. They carried me to a raft of sorts and placed me on my back lying on it. I wondered where I was, I could not hear the ocean, only the quietness of the splashing water as they poled the raft forward. I smelled kerosene from the torches they lit and wondered what they were doing as neither of the men ever spoke a word.


As day became night I knew we had been traveling for some distance. I could now move my fingers slightly and my vision was not as blurry, attentive on the full moon in the sky. My senses told me I was naked but I was helpless to move. I no longer felt ill, just a relaxing calmness as though my mind and muscles were separated. Strangely there was no fear in me, like a lamb going to slaughter I accepted my surroundings as all is good.

The wood of the raft hit on some stones jarring my limp body so my head fell to the side. I saw many hundreds of torches burning in the trees along with a large fire. The two men picked me up side to side and carried me forward into the lighted area. Many people were gathered around watching as I was carried in and placed in a chair made of wood and straw. My arms alongside with my upper body were securely fastened to the back upright of the chair to keep me from falling over. The men stepped back to each side of me and stood tall.

The silence was astonishing. What obedience, not so much as a murmur, only a crackle from the fire. Then I heard drums beating loud and repetitive, from out in the dark, and I heard voices chanting as more torches approached from the black woods.

Suddenly I felt embarrassment as these people entered the area and stood opposed to the fire from the other group of people. One smaller person stood in the middle of this group covered by an excessively white sheet. All at once the drums stopped along with the chant.

“Langage Kouwa-Kouwa, Génouwazé-Génouwazé! manti-a la..a-go la! “ Spoken out loud and forceful from directly behind me, breaking the silence. “Taté Zila Moyo, o ki mizè saa anba lawé.” With that said all present folded to the ground.

I felt my hair pulled back. I gazed up, the woman from my past was smiling down at me with bright yellow and green shapes on her face. I looked in disbelief trying to speak, I found I could not. Moving to the fire this enormous woman picked a log from the edge holding it high shouting,” anba-zila” Then stood in front of me and with the flames still rising off the wood, brought it up to the flesh on my left leg and placed it against my skin. At this precise moment the man on the left poured a liquid down my body which was thicker than water and kept me from being scorched. I felt the burning heat as she passed my face. The same was repeated on the right side.

The witch then took the log and tossed it into the fire, where the log exploded with high flames burning at an astounding rate. Looking at my self I could only see black soot dripping from my skin.

Returning to me she displayed a long knife and removed a small amount of hair. Then taking the blade and putting the cutting edge just below my left breast drew it slowly sideways. The sting was tremendous as my eyes rolled back into my skull for the split instant in torment. She placed a thimble-sized container to collect the blood, then turned and walked away.

I watched as the crowd separated around her as she entered a hut. The men and women dispersed and rejoined as if she was walking through water.

Silence was once more the theme of this party. The man on my left held a cloth over the wound. Less than ten minutes later this woman returned before me, with one hand opened my mouth and poured this liquid with the consistency of warm Jell-O down my throat. She stood straight and addressed the crowd. “Ayimaké Vodoun, o nan Misi Yèwé!”, while holding a small effigy doll high as if it was a baby. The crowd in a relief cheered and the drums began loud and fast paced. Men and women were dancing by the fire’s edge. The cloaked person was ushered near.

The high priestess held a hood mask to my face of poor chalk artistry and made out of burlap. Then she placed the hood over my face restricting my sight of the immediate surroundings. Saying, "A di dutty duppy man dweet."("The dirty ghost did it.") “Bwoy yuh noh dead yet?”(“Boy you are not dead yet?”) felt the fabric of this silky cloth stride up my body from my legs to my chest as it was tossed over the two of us. The presence of a female was rendered to my senses as this person on top of me began to straddle me. I felt the warm touch of her skin on my lap, her weight being light. The feminine smell of her perfume aroused my thoughts. I tried to speak and almost mumbled, as her hand covered my mouth from outside the mask.

She said, "Mi wud radda yu nuh chat to mi."("I would rather you not talk to me.")

The feminine touch of her hand took hold of my cock. I realized for the first time how erect I had become. Was it her presence, or the toxin the witch gave me? My thoughts scattered as I blindly stared into this nasty mask. I felt her slide down before me between my legs.

Still holding my erection my legs were pushed apart and lifted. Slumping my torso my ass rested on the edge of the chair. My senses were overloaded as I felt her mouth warm and wet with saliva surrounding the end of my cock for a short time. Felt a tender touch come across me as she ran her tongue down the shaft, past my balls and probed my anus with her tongue, continuing the stroking of my erection at the same time.

I wanted to move and couldn’t. All I could do is clench tight my eyes as this occurred.

Moving back to my balls she devoured them as I felt the coolness of her saliva amidst other parts. The warmth of her mouth found my cock head once more. Holding the shaft firmly with her hand she progressed to suck splendidly hard on the sensitive skin. I could feel her teeth hit every so often. Her other hand caressed my anus and balls alternating.

The pressure was making my cock pulse, I knew it was going to be soon. My breathing paced quick in shorter breaths.

Now this female changed her position. Still firmly grasping my erection she straddled me once more. I felt the wetness and warmth of her crotch.

“Honestly if I could have moved at this point I would not have.”

Applying her weight, the pressure of entering her was squashing my cock. Then all at once I felt her opening, squeezing down my shaft. An audible “Ooh” then a small grunt followed. Her breathing became stunted as she moved her hips holding onto my shoulders.

Pressing down and up was accomplished by the movement of her abdomen and hips. Not counting, but I knew that by the twentieth stroke I was erupting. My balls grew tight as she simply held a firm down position rocking her hips. I could not respond as the semen passed through my erection into her body. The orgasm ripped through my cock each time I ejaculated, making the head throb to the point it hurt. My balls ached like they had been kicked.

The girl lifted the mask to my lips and kissed me so tenderly. Her lips were plump and voluptuous. Then she said, “But cooh pan di lickle invalid.”(“Oh the poor little boy is handicapped.”) With that I felt a needle strike my neck. The female was lifted quickly off my erection and body along with the cloth. I could hear her softly crying.

I heard the Priestess say, "No bodda bawl im soon cum bak!”("Don't bother crying he'll soon be back.") That was all I knew.



I awoke in the bed at the resort, looked about, and my wife was sleeping. Then I looked at the clock it was five am. I slid out of bed, put on a t-shirt and swim trunks. Feeling wonderful I headed down to the food area, acquired a cup of coffee and sat at a table. I was about to go for a walk down the beach when my friend came around the corner.

My first thought was, ‘He is going to ask what happened to me yesterday. Why did I blow him off for our golf time? What do I say?’ He gathered his coffee and a toast then seated him self across. I said, “Good morning.”

, “Yes, a very good morning and it will even be better after I show you how a true man plays golf today.”

I looked at him with a look of strange pondering.

, “You didn’t forget we set up for Saturday at ten?”

I said, “No, no I was just confused it is Saturday already. Wow, island time, it just flies! Excuse me I must utilize the men’s room.” I entered the men’s room and lifted my shirt. There was a scar about three inches long under my left breast and it was not new. Standing in front of the mirror I questioned my memory. If it was all a dream, then how did I obtain such a scar? Surely I would have known it happened by the size of it?



November 1998. The weather was becoming cold, I ended my workday early and headed home. I recognized my friends van in the driveway. I pulled in around it and parked. I wondered what he was up to. I jumped in the door, out of the cold and kicked off my shoes. “Hello, Hello!” no answer. I trotted down the stair treads to the playroom. “Hello, Hello! No answer. I thought: "That is strange, why would he leave his work van here?"

I strolled upstairs and then proceeded up to our bedroom to get changed. Upon entering the doorway I backed up. Here was my friend banging the shit out of my wife doggy style on my bed. I watched as he pumped his cock into her. She was groaning to each thrust. My stomach became ill, yet I was aroused. Turning around I headed out and left.

Returning home four hours later the house was quiet. My wife was chatting on the phone. I sat next to her and began to tease her as she tried hard to carry on her conversation.

Slapping my hands playfully and whispering, "Quit it", she held her composure as she completed her conversation. She hung up the phone and asked, “What got into you?”

I simply said, “I’m horny and seeing that you are my wife, guess what? It is time for some of that marital bliss. Let us go, shall we?” taking her hand and leading us to the bed room

Getting the usual comment as she stripped down, “Fine, if you must, but I am not really in the mood so', as she flops onto the bed like a dead limp doll 'do what you got to do.”

Telling her to roll onto her stomach for a bit of excitement, I added, “It may make this go quicker.” So she did.

I climbed onto the bed behind her, looked at her pussy and wondered how many cocks fucked her since we got married. I stroked my cock squeezing the base to make it erect. I placed my legs to each side of her ass, the soft skin touching my inner thigh. Taking a big mouth full of saliva, I dripped it down to the crevice of her ass.

She tried to roll but I had her pinned. She was saying, “Now why the hell did you have to do that?”

Responding I said to her, “Needed to make sure it was lubed for this big cock of mine.”

, “It is fucking lubed, just do your business! I have things to do; I don’t have time for this right now!”

I thrusted my cock into her well opened hole. She was correct, it was well lubed. I grabbed her wrists and pulled them behind her in a policeman’s hold. I began my assault on her pussy. Holding her hands with one hand I fingered her anus with my other. She protested at first then succumbed as she moaned lightly not allowing me the pleasure of getting her off.

Thrusting in and out I soon was ready to cum. I removed my fingers from her ass and leaning over her I stuck my fingers in her face. Whispering in her ear, “I want you to eat shit.”

Bucking furiously under me, I almost lost my grip on her hands. I stabbed her pussy with my cock as she stated colorful metaphors to me.

Leaning back I asked her, “So, tell your husband, just how many cocks does this pretty little pussy fucks in a single week?” She fell silent “I want a fucking answer whore!” I slammed her hard as I came, shaking out of anger and exhaustion.

Still holding her hands behind her back, grasping her hair I said, “I am sorry to inconvenience you to have sex after you just fucked my friend earlier today. I can see why you would not be in the mood. Being the person I am, I wanted to make sure you received your goodbye fuck personally.” With that I stood up, sweaty and pissed, walked over to the window. Then I wiped the nasty shit off my dick on her yellow curtains.

She watched with her eyes, afraid to move.

I dressed, walked over to the safe and removed the contents. Looking back I said, “The ride is over. And you best go find a job.”

“Fuck you, I will see you in court.”

I smirked , “Let us see: four hours ago I had to mortgage the house to the limit to pay for debts in the company. Two hours ago I sold the business', throwing a hundred dollars down, ‘there is your half. The rest you can keep!”

She started to speak and I immediately cut her off, “Shh, shh, shh' placing my finger over her mouth. 'See three hours ago I stopped over at my friend’s house. He was not home but his wife was. I am quite certain he will be looking for a partner. Hey here is a thought, you could shack up with him. That would be nothing new now, would it?”


April 10, 2002. High on the side of a mountain about 1700 feet above sea level and in a small town named Epworth. You have never heard of this town? It is located four miles south west of Ocho Rios, Jamaica, in the ring of mountains that surrounds the seaport. Many of the people who live here would rather not be known. From the view of my home I could see Jagger’s and Connery’s humble abodes overlooking the bay. You might be surprised to know the neighbors.

As for my self I moved here in the summer of 1999. This had been a journey for me based on reality and the unknown. Wondering through life, will I ever know the truth? Each morning while I sat on the veranda and drank my coffee I pondered the question: what is love? Then I thought: who was she? When I knew it was too real to be a dream. So I had searched this land for an answer.

One thing I will say about the people who live here is they are consistent. No one knows anything even the people who do. All they will say is, “Relax mon, you will see tomorrow will come.”

On this certain day I made an excursion to Kingston for the renewal of my extended visit documentation. Being an American there were certain guidelines for remaining in the country.

A typical day, the sun shone bright, it was a balmy 89 degrees at 8 in the morning. The wind blew slightly off the ocean making the palm leaves rustle. I climbed on my motorcycle and headed on down the left side of the road.

Pulling up to the Public Offices building and parking out front, I tried to make myself look as presentable as one can after a 2 hour trip. The heat from the pavement was searing hot and the sweat dripped down the side of my face. Within moments I was presented with a rejection for my request of stay. Unless you are filthy rich or married to a Jamaican it is difficult to obtain resident status. This was not really the worse thing. Just meant I had a week to fly back to the US and remain there for 24 hours before I could return for another year.

Upon return to the parking lot, I noticed the front wheel had been stolen off my motorcycle. I would be surprised but this was Kingston. Looking about I found a place that said they could have it repaired as early as tomorrow morning. I could almost bet it would be with my original wheel but it was no use to argue.

I took a Red Stripe out of the grungy cooler in the entrance to the garage. Standing just in the shade of the work shop I looked out as the town prepared for the annual parade later that evening. I realized as I downed the beer, that it was going to be impossible to find a place for the night. Placing the small bottle in the trash I walked toward the center of town.

The sun was frying my brain as I was delirious as to the real question why I was even here. I found a small hotel that looked like it had been closed since the thirties. It was obvious there was no air conditioning as there were not even windows. Venturing inside, I met with an elderly woman who politely greeted me. She told me she had but one bed left for the night but I would have to pay for two nights. I knew the game and just agreed as it was more suited than sleeping on the ground. She handed me a key and said: "Enjoy the evening’s celebration."

Making my way up to the room I entered the small area. The room was rather nice with a ceiling fan turning the air and a large window overlooking the main street below. I was surprised this room actually had a bathroom. Antiquated but still a private bath was unique. I sat down on one of the two beds and looking between I saw luggage, not much, but more than I had. I looked around, there was no one there. Then it hit me what the lady garbled to me, “She has but one bed.” I shook my head and wondered who my roommate would be.

I continued to ponder why I just did not move my ass back to the states permanently. I should spend the rest of time within the distance of my family so they could visit each day.

I took a quick rinse shower and headed down and out for a bite to eat. Making my way to the ocean side it was nice to be greeted with friendly gestures. With all the excitement going on things were busy. I had many drinks while waiting for a table and soon finished dinner, wasting the day away with some more drinks. I stumbled out of the restaurant with a half bottle of Appleton’s rum in my hand. I was feeling no pain. I was making my way back to the hotel amidst the crowds of people now in the street. I don’t know how many patrons guided me along the way.

Entering the room I was looking forward to watching the parade from the window. I fumbled for my key within my own befuddlement. The door opened and inside stood the biggest man I had ever seen holding a young female to the bed by her throat. His other hand held the bag that had been left between the beds earlier.

He was yelling, “Die, damn it, die bitch!”

Coming up behind him with only the bottle in my hand, I swung and hit the man just below the ear with a mighty blow. The bottle shattered into a million pieces. The man turned around fast as night and I felt a knife slice into my chest. Just under my left breast. The end of the broken bottle still in my reached out hand had caught the man in the neck as he turned.

I stood frozen with the piercing blade stuck into my chest and the man’s eyes glowed like the moon as blood coughed out of his mouth and squirted out his throat. Like King Kong he fell to the floor with a thunderous thump. I stood there, I could not feel any pain nor could my mind rationalize the situation. I felt warm blood trickling down my stomach. I looked at the girl who was just beginning to move. I knew her and our eyes met for the moment we both knew. Tears ran down my face and from the corner of my eye I caught the glimpse of a 6year old boy squished in the corner out of fear looking at me. I smiled for the last moment, he was beautiful, and he was mine.

My hand released the bottle as it fell smashing to the floor covered in blood. I sat back on the bed as my hand rose silently to my chest. My eyes blurred from the tears. Suddenly the pain overtook me, and it began to burn like hell. My eyes rolled back as it became overwhelming to bear the pain. I blacked out just as I felt her lips kiss mine.

Voices in my mind yelled out to me, but I was tired, I wanted to sleep. Suspended deep in a sea of black. I could leave so easily, when all I needed was clarity and someone to tell me. What the fuck is going on, God damn it! We were willing and wishful to be together and ever so close this time.

I wish you too could see this, because there is nothing to see. It is peaceful in my meaningless mind, and now once more it is fine with me. Not like the world where I used to be, maybe now they would be better off, if even with out me. I knew now having seen him, and her; life was complete.

So goodbye to you girl, so long and farewell. I can’t hear you crying, so don’t cry for me. Talk to me softly, I will know how you feel inside, I have been there before, you know all to well. Give me a whisper and a sigh. Give me a kiss before you tell me goodbye. Never mind the darkness coming in now, we can still find a way. Maybe someday we will never say, “Good bye.”
 
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Is there enough erotic scenes?
I would say that if a story is in the romance genre don't worry about having enough sex, worry about writing enough emotion. Rumple Foreskin's fine story "Love on the Levee" that was discussed here awhile back doesnt have any real sex but it still works well without intercourse. I probably would of taken out the anal sex with the wife after he finds out she is cheating on him, that in my opinion should be taken out since it is a story in the romance genre.

Should the ending be different?
That's a tough question to answer. I think it works well as is. Maybe I would have both character die at the end but I would have trouble doing that since it would leave the child alone.

I thought about the ending being a rape scene, then the confrontation. what do you think?
I don't think its necessary. I would be careful putting a rape in a romance story. Readers who pick out a story from the romance genre may get annoyed that you put a rape scene in.

Is the time displacement easy to follow?
I guess its fine. I might have not been so specific with dates and just mention the years passing by or years later.

The Jamaican dialect with the translation next to it. Is that a pain in the ass to read? Does it hinder the story or give it a Jamaican feel?
It was a pain in the ass to me in the beginning but got used to it later on. Kind of helps and hurts the story at the same time. Not sure what I would of done in this case, maybe ease up with the Jamaican dialect and eliminating the English translation all together. And anything confusing having the main character responding back, asking to the Jamaican to be more clear or have him figure it out in his head.

How boring is it between erotic scenes? What could be cut down and what should be elaborated on?
Can't say I found any part boring with the exeption of a brief moment when he moved to Jamaica and you write about getting documation in order to stay in Jamaica. I might elaborate on this,...wicked person that my wife had become was more evident then ever I would have some clues early on in the story to show what kind of person she really is.

Did you get a sense of real feelings from the story?
Yes, but not until the end.

Is the story visual enough, to know what the enviroments are like?
Maybe the enviroments could of been described better, but that is not what bothers me. Descriptions of the characters is NOT visual enough to me. The young 16 girl that the witch points to is NOT visual enough. The photo of the painting "Girl in Blue" is NOT visual enough. Even at the end when their eyes meet it is NOT visual enough for me. What color is her eyes, hair, skin? Also would like more description in the wife and husband.

I just know I am going to get the average 7,000 views in the romance category and that bugs me most of all. What would you do leave it alone or manipulate it into another category?

In my opinion don't manipulate it into another genre, leave it in the romance category. You might get very few views but those people will apreciate it much more. You will get much more views in other categories but most of those views will be of readers either scimming to the dirty parts or readers who will give up on the story early on.


A good story, very intresting. Just wished you put more detail into the characters descriptions.
 
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Re: Re: Grassroots Discussion: A7inchphildo

Lying Eyes said:
I would say that if a story is in the romance genre don't worry about having enough sex, worry about writing enough emotion. Rumple Foreskin's fine story "Love on the Levee" that was discussed here awhile back doesnt have any real sex but it still works well without intercourse. I probably would of taken out the anal sex with the wife after he finds out she is cheating on him, that in my opinion should be taken out since it is a story in the romance genre.
LOL Ok, You are not the first person to think that. It was intended to show the furious nature of irrational thinking. I will ponder that some more.

That's a tough question to answer. I think it works well as is. Maybe I would have both character die at the end but I would have trouble doing that since it would leave the child alone.
Yeah and I don't really want to erase the child. The child is placed it to give the reader a more concrete feeling that she is the same girl that was at the ritual.

I don't think its necessary. I would be careful putting a rape in a romance story. Readers who pick out a story from the romance genre may get annoyed that you put a rape scene in.
My intentions if I placed a rape scene. Was to fully change the story from romantic to non-consent. I like to write romance but that is for me. I was tinking about what the majority of the readers would want. I have my story now, so it would make little difference to me to alter it. Possibly post two different views of the same story?

I guess its fine. I might have not been so specific with dates and just mention the years passing by or years later.
The dates are needed to show the girl is actually 18 when they have sex. As long as you didn't get lost, was more of my concern.

It was a pain in the ass to me in the beginning but got used to it later on. Kind of helps and hurts the story at the same time. Not sure what I would of done in this case, maybe ease up with the Jamaican dialect and eliminating the English translation all together. And anything confusing having the main character responding back, asking to the Jamaican to be more clear or have him figure it out in his head.
I had thought about cutting it down more. You will notice it drastically drops off quick then only a few more important things are translated. I think some of the translations could be deleted, just leaving the Jamaican creo. But I know I hate reading a story I don't recognize a word.

Can't say I found any part boring with the exeption of a brief moment when he moved to Jamaica and you write about getting documation in order to stay in Jamaica. I might elaborate on this,...wicked person that my wife had become was more evident then ever I would have some clues early on in the story to show what kind of person she really is.
Hm, Good! I was so into the memories I kind of didn't think about it. That is two definate areas I will go back and whatever writers do, try to do something with.

Yes, but not until the end.
:( OK I will need to add a little more. I think you are right.

Maybe the enviroments could of been described better, but that is not what bothers me. Descriptions of the characters is NOT visual enough to me. The young 16 girl that the witch points to is NOT visual enough. The photo of the painting "Girl in Blue" is NOT visual enough. Even at the end when their eyes meet it is NOT visual enough for me. What color is her eyes, hair, skin? Also would like more description in the wife and husband.
Yeah I am split on this. I hold two thoughts on character descriptions. One leave them blank and let the reader inject their own person into the story. Two color them in so they are real vivid standing out making the reader except the character as mine not theirs. I would color the little girl more. I think she needs to stand out in all three places. But also I am cautious as this is an interacial event. I did not intend to highlight that part of the story.


In my opinion don't manipulate it into another genre, leave it in the romance category. You might get very few views but those people will apreciate it much more. You will get much more views in other categories but most of those views will be of readers either scimming to the dirty parts or readers who will give up on the story early on.
I know that is a common general question. Thanks for the reply. Yes every persons opinion is important. I also know we need romance stories as well as other categories.

A good story, very intresting. Just wished you put more detail into the characters descriptions.
OK Thanks :rolleyes: You could have been honest! LOL no really thanks for your time. You have brought up some good points, I really value what you said. Taking notes -n- stuff. I know this is not the best story I have written, but it adds in many of the areas I have trouble with. Thus making it a really good example for me to learn from.

Phil :)
 
Okay, now I understand why you were so bare with character discriptions. I personaly am not comfortable leaving characters so empty of visual detail in my own stories.

The way I think is, it would be okay to be less discriptive with the narrator/main character. The reason being that it would be easier for the reader to project themselves into the story since I know that many readers can then sort of fullfill their own fantasy in their head by imagining themselves in the story doing what they cant do in real life. But to me that is only okay to do with the main character in the story.

Hmmm, I'm intrested to hear what other readers have to say. Keep the lack of detail or make them much more discriptive?

As for submiting two different versions in two genres, I say if your intrested in exploring something different with the same plot then go for it. I previously mentioned Rumple Foreskin's story and he did just that. He submited two stories "Love on the Levee" which was the romantic less sexual story discussed here and his alternate version "Loving on the Levee".

Have you taken my comments hard? I wasn't trying to put you down and I apologize if you found my words somehow too negative. I will repeat, it is a good and intresting story!!! If as you say this isnt your best work then you should be proud since you show alot of writing talent and potential. A much better writer then I am. I will just note that romantic stories are tough to write, porn is easy. Getting the reader to feel an emotion other than lust or hate is much harder to do, especialy male readers.
 
Lying Eyes said:
Okay, now I understand why you were so bare with character discriptions. I personaly am not comfortable leaving characters so empty of visual detail in my own stories.
I did consider what you are saying. I even took a closer look at what details are given. There is room to improve that area for sure. Certainly as far as the young girl is concerned in her debut appearance.
The way I think is, it would be okay to be less discriptive with the narrator/main character. The reason being that it would be easier for the reader to project themselves into the story since I know that many readers can then sort of fullfill their own fantasy in their head by imagining themselves in the story doing what they cant do in real life. But to me that is only okay to do with the main character in the story.
That is an interesting thought. See, but when I read I am a male. I read mostly stories written by males. 95% of the main characters are then also male. Hmm the 2ndary character is the female. That is the more important character to me to have it look, act, and be the girl I have in my mind from real life. That is the character who is going to turn me on, not usually the main character.
Hmmm, I'm intrested to hear what other readers have to say. Keep the lack of detail or make them much more discriptive?
Come on do you really expect me to believe others will read it?
As for submiting two different versions in two genres, I say if your intrested in exploring something different with the same plot then go for it. I previously mentioned Rumple Foreskin's story and he did just that. He submited two stories "Love on the Levee" which was the romantic less sexual story discussed here and his alternate version "Loving on the Levee".
Yeah I am getting to rump's story next. I am also going to take a look at how he modified it, what the rates are, and then try to decide if that is really worth it. I hesitate to having two stories that are really the same.
Have you taken my comments hard? I wasn't trying to put you down and I apologize if you found my words somehow too negative. I will repeat, it is a good and intresting story!!! If as you say this isnt your best work then you should be proud since you show alot of writing talent and potential. A much better writer then I am. I will just note that romantic stories are tough to write, porn is easy. Getting the reader to feel an emotion other than lust or hate is much harder to do, especialy male readers.

slicknhb, I mean Lying Eyes, please your making me laugh.
This is a story! I don't take intentional personal attacks hard, why would I ever take constructive feedback hard.

No it is not the worst story, but certainly not the best. It was a story I really wanted to write. Some how though it was like pulling teeth every step of the way. My original outline looks nothing like the finished product. It seemed like every step just never fit with the next step. I knew where I wanted it to go, yet my thoughts betrayed me every time I began to write. Normally I will push out a story under two days, and posted by the 4th day. Seldom ever do I ask someone to edit. This one I asked BT (that cute dutch girl) to check it out. Still I started this story over 6 months ago, and it still seems broken to me.
Don't get me wrong I have two stories that are down for ratings, but that don't bother me cause I don't like the story.
I like this story too, but it was two sentences a day maybe. A lot of that had to do with getting the facts strait, and the creo. I know the language but not the spelling. Then this story hits all my weak areas as well. I can't even tell you how many times I have read it.

Thank you for the nice comment. I have read "breast pump blues", for a lesbian category story it was very classy (nice). Nothing wrong with the reviews posted under that story. Maybe if we were writing for hire you could judge who is the better writer. As long as we are writing for fun there is no such thing. Just different results. I enjoy writing it is a hobby. I enjoy reading as well. I want to write better for me no one else. Same as when I read it is not to correct the story, it is to get lost in the story. The best part of the SDC is reading all the replies after you are completed, and seeing what you missed. That makes you look harder at your own stories.

I have to disagree with your last thought. I think men are easier to effect emotionally. They will never admit it unless drunk or really crushed inside. They also tend to not jump for the romance stuff first either. However that delicate tuff layer can be cracked so easily, where the female has lots of soft layers to get through before you can really make an emotional impression. Once you pierce a man with a sharp concise feeling they hurt, and then retain that thought for a long time (days even). The woman needs long strokes of repetitive pieces of feelings to aquire the same lasting thought.

:) thanks for sharing with me. <--- the smiley face is to let you know I am happy. The more mistakes found the better the learning process is. Like I said, "It's only a story."

Phil
 
Hello? Anyone out there? Someone out there other then me must have an opinion on A7inchPhildo fine piece. Where are the brilliant forum contributers Rumple Foreskin, Pure, Dr_mabeuse and others?

Anyone at all, please share your impression on this story even If you hate it, A7inchPhildo is a big boy he can take it.
 
LOL you know I don't beg. But thanks, when they have time they will come. No hurry here.

:( maybe they just don't like me.

:cathappy:
 
Hi Phil,

Interesting story. It's fairly time demanding, so you'll have to excuse that I read all of it once, and some parts twice. No doubt I missed some things, and fell free to disregard criticisms based on misreading or overlooking. (OTOH, most people dont want to study a story as if it were Finnegan's Wake, and read it 20 times.)

//Is there enough erotic scenes?//

yes

//Should the ending be different?//

see below

//I thought about the ending being a rape scene, then the confrontation. what do you think?//

that's how it is now; see below

//Is the time displacement easy to follow?//

not too bad, except for the sequence that may not have happened

//The Jamaican dialect with the translation next to it. Is that a pain in the ass to read? Does it hinder the story or give it a Jamaican feel?//

I haven't seen this done before, within the text. Sometimes it was not necessary. I think a lot of dialect does help the 'feel.'

//How boring is it between erotic scenes? What could be cut down and what should be elaborated on? //

The erotic scenes are, imo, nothing to read the story for. *They could be cut down. Their detail is unnecessary.

//Did you get a sense of real feelings from the story?//

The man's anguish came across. Wife's mental states do not.

//Is the story visual enough, to know what the enviroments are like?//

Yes.

//I know this is not a real wanker of a story, it could be. I was in one of those softer moods when I started it. I kind of like it soft though. If I was to move this from the romance category into another category. My thoughts were to place a rape scene at the end, and elaborate more on the drugged night ritual sex. Perhaps change the wife scene into a bit more harsh dom, and call the story Non-consent. //

I'm not sure it needs to be 'sexed up.' Or made into 'nonconsent.'
-----
Strengths

The writing often has a good flow to it, and is highly literate with a some odd flaws. You (he writer) seem to have extensive knowledge of Jamaica and its dialect, and infuse the story with this Jamaican color. (Not having been there, I can't comment on 'authenticity', but there's the feel of it.)

The central idea, as old as Macbeth, or maybe Oedipus, is of a prophecies and the unforseen unfoldings of events. It seems like a good one, basically well handled through several twists and turns.

Other Issues and Problems

Reminds me a bit of Wide Sargasso Sea. Also I think of Poe's 'Black Cat,' as far as the method of narration goes.

Overall, it seems somewhat like a draft with lots of ideas. The writing is often good, though sometimes lazy. Many distracting errors like 'dejected from my body.' (quoting from memory).

Neither the man nor the woman (wife) characters quite come together. Again, I think of the Black Cat, and there the man's course of life (trajectory) is rather clear (alcoholism, leading to evil). This man's character, at times, is like a lead in a Penthouse magazine story, though at other times has some sensitivity; complexity is not his strong suit (i.e, the author did not attempt to make him very complex.)

I liked it best when the man saw the clothes and just went away for a few days. The second time was a bit of a stretch, and i couldn't figure out whether he fucked her ass or not. It seems not, but what's there to wipe on the curtains.

The 'wife' character does not really come together well; I guess she's a floozy, but she doesn't talk much until she's being walked out on. That scene is a bit awkward. I would have had him say less, but just tell the reader what he'd done. i.e., 'I walked out. She'd find the business sold and the money gone when next she went to the bank.' These 'walk in on them in the act' scenes seem pretty common in this joe's life. More subtle signs of infidelity could or could have been chosen.

The sex scenes seem a bit contrived, as if you're trying to 'spice up' the story for the porn hounds of literotica. Why not go for those that like a good read, and can find something else to wank to? Much of the story is a 'good read' as a romance/mystery.

The ending {beginning with the discovery of the rape in progress}. Looking it over {Added: 5-29: except for the last two paras}, I gather that the child really is his; at first I did not know if that was an illusion. I gather that the woman is the woman from the [fuck the narrator] ceremony. Further I gather this is the young woman pointed out by the witch, early on. None of this is easy to see; maybe you want there to be some doubt?

I suppose the problem is that it's unclear whether he imagined the [tied up fuck scene] scene or not. The scar says 'yes' but there's no time it could have happened.

{{Added, in reexamining the time markers for the third time: I see

On Saturday morning I awoke early, around five and with coffee in hand I proceeded to walk the beach, when I came to a man who was selling conch shells in the water.

I awoke in the bed at the resort, looked about, and my wife was sleeping. Then I looked at the clock it was five am. I slid out of bed, put on a t-shirt and swim trunks.


IF both markers are true, there's no time for an excursion. Indeed there's not more than ten minutes for a dream, if that.

If the first marker is misleading or occuring within a dream only, that would free up the night at least. OTOH, if that marker's misleading(untrue), then he can't really get to the beach and take the pill, which leads to xyz.

That's as far as I can analyze the puzzle.}}

I suppose the reader can picture the event on another plane of time and space, outside our normal world and its timeline. But then you want an actual kid to turn up. If the kid's existence were dubious (or only on the 'other plane'), it would make more sense. As it is now, you're implying sex did happen, though there was no time it could have. The reader has to live with that contradiction.

{Added 5-29: I have only one comment, below, on the last two paras, and the voice or writing apparently during and after death.}

Now I guess one main problem, the 'trick' of the story is to have her (mystery young woman) turn up. It appears you decided it should be an attempted rape/murder AND in his hotel room. Seems a bit much. Guy's always walking in on something! If he'd come across her being assaulted on a path to the beach--iow, something simple--that would work better for me. King Kong seems unnecessary

Overall, I'd say the thing has to be tightened and focused in several ways alluded to, above, and you obviously have the talent to pull it together. Not to sound like the musician in Amadeus, I say there are too many words (about a thousand). And especially around the sex, they're not fresh.

I'd say you have to decide if the whole thing is to fall together--like a story when the reader 'figures it all out' or whether the whole thing is a conundrum (the illogical[perplexing] imaginings of someone who's had a mental fugue or breakdown). If the latter, maybe have him in a drunken stupor in the last scene, so we don't *know if it happened; yet see a short police report in the paper.

You might give attention to the 'framing' of the story. Make it more like the Black Cat. Circular.

{{Added 5-29: I don't find the existing framing--dead man's narrative--very plausible or, because of its placement, effective.}}


Iow start the story with him and a mysterious lady, in a brief scene whose nature is unclear. THEN go back to the first plane flight in, with his wife.... Decide if it's to make sense (most of the black cat does, except for weird coincidences). IS there any way it can all be explained? (even if a shadow of doubt remains). Decide on the answer and make the story fit. Personally i like stories that COULD have happened. There's a real possibility for each event. BUT there's a plausible other reading that's very mysterious.

Sorry I don't have more time. No doubt I've missed clues and scrambled the thing. But as an author you have to consider where readers get tripped up, and unless you're Joyce or Woolfe, you have to clarify as much as possible.

Best,
J.

PS {added after reading the other comments}. Lyingeyes had trouble with the characters, too, I see. However, I would not,myself, call for much more *character description* as Lying does. I would say more has to be conveyed and indicated (the old 'show don't tell' axiom).

PPS. It occurs to me that one way to ease the time problem is to have the encounter(with friend) and golf game framed differently: have those events seem as if they're happening, but have him then 'wake up', for example on the plane. Iow, have it be possible that there was in fact no golf game that afternoon.
 
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Phil,

Either this is a very imaginative read or you’ve lead one helluva interesting life. :) However and IMHO, this story would get bombed in the Romance category. For one thing, there is no real “romance” until the protag’s death scene at the end of the story. Even then it’s very brief and almost hidden by the attempted violence to the girl and the double killing.

I did some line editing of the first few paragraphs in CAPS. With luck, one or two of my suggestions might even be useful.

Rumple Foreskin :cool:

--

Is there enough erotic scenes?

RF: No. The ’92 couple are on their honeymoon, but there is no sex or even much reference to sex in the first half of the story.

--

Should the ending be different?

RF: Romance tends to lean toward Happy Ever After (HEA) endings. This most definitely isn’t one.

--

I thought about the ending being a rape scene, then the confrontation. what do you think?

RF: It already reads like an attempted rape followed by a double murder. As a rule, rape and romance are not compatible.

--

Is the time displacement easy to follow?

RF: Yes

--

The Jamaican dialect with the translation next to it. Is that a pain in the ass to read? Does it hinder the story or give it a Jamaican feel?

RF: It doesn’t hinder the story BUT, the reader needs some explanation about who is doing the translation. And during the voodoo ceremony, the translations temporarily end.

--

How boring is it between erotic scenes?

RF: Possibly because the first half of the story is devoid of sex, the periods between the sex scenes didn’t seem boring in comparison.

--

What could be cut down and what should be elaborated on?

RF: That depends on the way you want to tell your story.

--

Did you get a sense of real feelings from the story?

RF: No. Maybe because there was not descriptions of the nameless main characters.

--

Is the story visual enough, to know what the environments are like?

RF: No. Here’s one example. In the scene after the bus hits the goat, when the protag walks behind the beer stand, I know he can see the ocean, but I’ve got no idea what the land around him looks like.

--

I know this is not a real wanker of a story, it could be. I was in one of those softer moods when I started it. I kind of like it soft though. If I was to move this from the romance category into another category. My thoughts were to place a rape scene at the end, and elaborate more on the drugged night ritual sex. Perhaps change the wife scene into a bit more harsh dom, and call the story Non-consent.

I just know I am going to get the average 7,000 views in the romance category and that bugs me most of all. What would you do leave it alone or manipulate it into another category?

RF: You might also consider Erotic Horror or Mind Control as alternative categories.


--


Voodoo Don’t Work on You?

A Caribbean love story of a fate with no control


The story I am about to share with you is a personal experience. The facts are mostly true, the people are real. I must hide the identity, as you are aware. (WHO IS THIS? THE PROTAG IS YOUR NARRATOR BUT HE DIES AT THE END OF THE STORY.)


The date is 1962,(IS THIS A TYPO FOR 1992?) April the Tenth. The “Jamaican Labor Party” is announced victorious. In another place (OMIT “IN ANOTHER PLACE”) on the other side of Kingston Jamaica, away from all the celebration(COMMA) there is(OMIT “THERE IS”) a newly married couple of wealth which(OMIT “WHICH”) is peacefully bedding down for their consummation of vows. (THAT MAY BE A RECORD NUMBER OF NITS PICKED IN ONE SENTENCE) They have chosen Kingston as so many others have for the rich cultural roots and large city style life it embraces.


The morning news runs out as the papers and radio broadcast(S) dampen(S) slightly(OMIT “SLIGHTLY” REDUNDANT) the news of the victory so earnestly welcomed by the Jamaican people.(AWKWARD) Over the radio, “A couple de marriage from the parish of St. Ann has been slain inna most vicious attack. It look to have been burglars, uh did see dat? Report to authorities A(a) who dat?”(GOOD DIALOGUE, BUT WOULD A RADIO ANNOUNCER HAVE SUCH A THICK ACCENT?)


(NEED A SCENE/TIME SHIFT MARKER SUCH AS A, #.)


On April 9, 1992 I was gloriously married, and (OMIT ‘AND” BEGIN NEW SENTENCE) my new bride and I had planned our honeymoon on the exotic shores of Jamaica. We arrived the day following the ceremony (MOVE “WE ARRIVED” HERE -- UNLESS THE CEREMONY WAS IN MONTEGO BAY) in Montego Bay and found our decrepit minibus. The driver, Paul, acknowledged all on board and extended a most vibrant welcome, “Irie”. (“cool, good, nice”) At which time(OMIT “AT WHICH TIME) he briefly mentioned the two hour bus tour to the hotel resort Couples in Runaway Bay. Then he rambled on about obscure facts and things to do while visiting.


The excitement was a growing knot in my stomach. I had wished for this moment to arrive for over six months now(OMIT “NOW”). I had visited every site on the net. I had researched all the information available. The resort catered to every whim and included all amenities. The nude island was the grand focal point as my thoughts slipped into a dream (THAT WAS) about to become a reality. (WHAT ABOUT HIS BRIDE? THIS IS A ROMANCE BUT SO FAR HE HASN’T EVEN MENTIONED HER NAME.)


“HONK, honk!” I awakened(WOKE) as the bus sidestepped around (SWERVED TO AVOID?) a goat and just(SQUEEZED?) past an oncoming car. My thought changed quick, ‘holy shit’ I was going to die just moments away from my dream vacation(HONEYMOON?). “Thudump!” I knew now we did not miss the ragged goat. The bus pulled to the side. The driver Paul exited the bus(OMIT “THE BUS”), and then was(OMIT “THEN WAS” ADD “BEGAN”) loudly talking to another Jamaican man.


Driver: "A fe me cyar." ("It's my car.") (WHO IS TRANSLATING? IF IT’S THE GUY, SOME EXPLANATION NEEDS TO BE GIVEN)


Man: "Chobble nuh nice." "Yuh inna big chobble." ("Trouble is not nice." "You are in big trouble.") "Di wola dem a me fambly."(“All of them are my family.")


Driver: Pointed at us in the bus. "Ef yuh chobble 'dim, me a guh bax yuh". ("If you trouble them, I am going to hit you.")


Shaken, my wife grasped my hand and mentioned we should get off the bus and stretch or something. Stepping out I noticed the dead carcass and looked away, not needing that in my thoughts of passion tonight. It was too late; etched in my mind like a photograph. (FRAGMENT) The blood streaked down the side of the bus and parts(OF WHAT?) were torn. Chunks of bloody flesh and hair enveloped the rear axle, bumper and street behind.


Keeping my wife’s eyes away I led her (MOVE “ACROSS THE WAY” HERE) toward a roadside shanty across the way that sold beer. Soon other couples followed as it was now evident this was going to take a while. I sipped a Red Stripe beer and my wife became friendly talking with others from the bus.


Looking about, I meandered behind the bright colored shack. The ocean was so beautiful, (NEW SENTENCE) it was a blue/green that was more than I could capture even in a picture. The water glistened to my sight, the phosphor made it appear to glow.(IN THE DAYLIGHT?) I was entranced, strolling closer to the water’s edge, I was disturbed.(THE SENTENCE BEGINS “I WAS ENTRANCED” AND ENDS “I WAS DISTURBED” – PICK ONE OR THE OTHER.)
 
Hello there,

I just wanted to let 7in know that I have every intention of reading and critiqueing his story, but I've been out of town all week. I should be back saturday night, however, so I'll hopefully have a response up sometime sunday. I know my thoughts probably don't mean much, but I did want to pipe up and say that I'm not ignoring the story, I just haven't had much computer access this week. :)
 
Well, it’s a good idea for a story, the mix of sex and voodoo I mean (though I wonder why it wasn't set in Haiti. I didn’t know they did voodoo in Jamaica), but other than that I couldn’t tell what the hell was going on. What was that voodoo ceremony all about? Why did they do it to him? Who the hell was the big guy in the bedroom and why was he killing that girl? How did he manage to go bankrupt in ’98 and buy himself a fabulous Jamaican estate in ’99? Why did he wipe his shitty dick on her curtains when he’d just had vaginal sex with her? What did this news release from 1962 have to do with anything? Why did the “Father of Jamaican Art” (& wouldn’t she have been the “Mother” rather than the father?) pick him for this fate, whatever that fate was? What was the point of all this? He married a cheating woman, got caught up in some voodoo ceremony, and got killed. It just doesn’t make any sense to me. I don’t see how one thing had anything to do with another.

Really, this story needs help on all levels, not least of which is just proper use of language. The errors and misuses go way beyond the nitpicky and seriously affect the readability of the story. That might be why I had so much trouble in understanding what was going on.

In another place on the other side of Kingston Jamaica, away from all the celebration there is a newly married couple of wealth which is peacefully bedding down for their consummation of vows.

“couple…which…”? It should be “couple…who…” You don’t use “which” when referring to people.

The morning news runs out as the papers and radio broadcast dampen slightly the news of the victory so earnestly welcomed by the Jamaican people.

“Morning news runs out”? You mean they ran out of news? Or the news came out? And how to papers and broadcast “dampen slightly” the news? Because they’re wet?

So they return from their honeymoon and he seems to be happy as a clam, then he tells us:

At the top of the list being this woman whom I married. She was by every description a man could give, a looker, a real “10”. This might seem to be the ultimate wife to most who desire a flirtatious woman. The obsession that has consumed her was not exactly what I thought of when we married.

It turns out that what the author means is that she was fucking everything in sight. Again we have “This” as a pronoun for a woman instead of “She”, but worse, I blew right by this paragraph thinking that, okay, she likes to flirt. Flirting and fucking around are two very different things. It was only by combing back through what I’d already read looking for some explanation of her behavior that I finally understood what the narrator was trying to tell us here. I won’t even mention the use of past perfect tense (“The obessesion that has consumed her…” when he’s talked in past tense. There are inexplicable verb shifts all through this story.

His reactions to everything that happens are totally bizarre to me. He wakes up after this near-death voodoo experience and he feels great. He doesn’t even think about what heppened or wonder whether it was a dream or tell us that he couldn’t remember it. Some stranger on the beach offers him a drug and he takes it, just like that. (And what the hell is “horse grain”? Oats? or do you mean horsehide?)

So between his strange lack of reaction to what’s going on and the difficulty in understanding the story at all, the rest of your questions seem to be rather trivial, but I’ll have a go.

The dialect: It was interesting at first, but it quickly gets distracting. It’s not good. I think you could have used a couple of examples at the start just so we get the flavor of the language, and then he could have said how his ears became accustomed to it and he could understand what they were saying. It begs the question of just who is doing the translating for us. If he understands them, then we don’t need the dialect, and if he doesn’t understand what they’re saying than who’s supplying the translations?

Are there enough erotic scenes? I guess so. It’s hard to say. I thought the voodoo sex was pretty good, but any erotic heat was dwarfed by my confusion over why they were doing this to him. The scene with his wife was totally confusing. He spits on the crack of her ass, so I assume he’s going to have anal sex with her. But no, he’s in her vagina. But then he wipes his “shitty dick” on her curtains. So what happened? Beats me.

Time displacement: Don’t understand why this has to be spread out over so many years. It seems like it could have been done in an initial honeymoon in Jamaica where he was involved in the voodoo ceremony, then back to the states, then back to Jamaica for his death. But see, I really don’t understand how all these things were connected, so I might be missing something.

Is it boring between the erotic scenes? No, I don’t think so. The voodoo ceremony was probably the best thing in there.

Did you get a sense of real feelings from the story? You mean his feelings? Or feelings about what happened? In the first case, no. He seemed to lack any feelings about anything that happened to him. When he came home and found his wife fucking his friend and went out for a few hours and then came back and sat down and started ‘teasing’ his wife, I was just incredulous. Then I thought, “Oh. They must have an open marriage.” But no, he’s just playing with her. He’s really pissed. Or is he?

If you mean feelings about what happened, then I also have to say no, because I’m still not sure at all what it ws that happened.

---dr.M.
 
The Story As I Understand It

After reading the other comments, I get the feeling that I was the only one to have trouble understanding the plot of this story. So let me go and recapitulate the story as I recall it. Maybe that would help you figure out what parts need to be explained or emphasized so that other readers don’t have the same trouble I did.


On a honeymoon in Jamaica, the Narrator’s (N) bus hits a goat and a witch puts a spell on him, telling him that his true mate is this 16 year-old native girl (G). (I thought the part about the fresh goat blood on the van leading to his beweitchment was a clever touch, BTW) .

They return home where he learns his new wife is a cheat.

Some years later they return to Jamaica and a native named Shellman offers N a drug, presumably because N seems troubled about his wife. N takes it, slips into a near coma, and is abducted and used in a voodoo ceremony where he’s made to have sex with G.

They returns home again, and N catches his wife in the act. He goes away for a few hours, comes back and has brutal sex with her and basically tells her that he’s gone bankrupt and has no money she can take from him in a divorce. He kicks her out.

He returns to Jamaica where he has a house, and walks in on some big guy trying to rape G. N & G’s child is there hiding in the corner. N and the rapist kill each other.


So I don’t know how the witch knew that N was back on the island. I presume that Shellman was working for the witch and was watching for him? Or was that just the magic at work, that it was his fate to be chosen for this ceremony, and Shellman was told to just give the pill to the first tourist he saw?

What was the point of the voodoo act? Just to impregnate the girl? I mean, if that was his fate, aren’t there easier ways to accomplish that (surely a seduction would have been easier)? What was all the cutting and burning for? A presage of his death? If so, why did they want him dead?

What was G doing in his room and why was that guy trying to rape her? Just a random act of violence? How did G know he was back? I presume she was there to show him his child? But then, she must have known where he lived. How did she know that? Or was that just his magical fate too? Was G magically linked to him?

What did N’s wife have to do with any of this? Wouldn’t the story have worked out the same had he never been married but just vacationing in Jamaica? Did the witch put a spell on her to make her into a slut? Is the wife there just for the sex scene?

---dr.M.
 
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dr m,

many of your questions occurred to me, and damned if i know the answers, which is why i stated that maybe the intention was to leave an unsolvable conundrum. one central one is how the child came about if the narrator never left his hotel room (i.e., the ceremony was only a dream.)

i believe I mentioned being struck by the seemingly odd choice of the author to have the man come across the girl IN his room, AND being raped.

of course I agree that, in these 'fate' and 'fateful prediction' stories, the writer is entitled to one or two, 1-in-a-million coincidences, but the author has exceeded his quota.

having now puzzled over several issues, i'm with you, that they have no answers. my humble speculation is that the story is pieces written at different times, sort of glued together. just as the author did no start-to-finish edit, he did no start-to-finish final check for plausibility and what filmmakers call 'continuity.'

Phil, for all his talent, is trying himself, or trying to have us make sense of a really rough draft. That's his right, but some irritation is to be expected.
 
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Pure, Doc,

Me too.

But I tend to be a single-digit IQ literal-minded blockhead about non-concrete allusions, so I figured it was just me.

Rumple Foreskin :cool:
 
Well, as I was writing out my plot synopsis, it occurred to me that either Phildo had left some glaring holes and unexplained errors in here, or he's a writer of incredible control and subtlety.

Either the hero is a two-dimensional lox who goes stumbling through his life without a clue or an emotional response, or he's viewing everything through a voodoo-induced haze of nebulous unreality. Either the story is a collection of impossible coincidence and happenstance, or the story portrays a world so permeated by incomprehensible voodoo forces that everything is foreordained from the time they hit that goat.

I'm pretty sure I know which interpretation Phildo would choose. ;)

---dr.M.
 
Wow that was great!

I will need more time to answer all the great comments. I will get started right now, yet it may take a few more than a few moments to try and answer, best as possible.

The reason I chose Jamaica, and the Voudoun is because I have never been to Haiti, nor do I plan to. However the religion does not originate in Haiti, it was just the first country to recognize Voodoo as a religion. It originates from africa. For the sake of research Haiti has the most realistic offerings of actual rituals, and purpose.

Quick reference the Voodoun/Vodou/Voodoo religion is not really about Effigie dolls, and black magic.

In Haitian Vodou, spirits are divided according to their nature in roughly two categories, whether they are hot or cool. Cool spirits fall under the Rada category, and hot spirits fall under the Petwo category. Rada spirits are familial and mostly come from Africa, Petwo spirits are mostly native to Haiti and are more demanding and require more attention to detail than the Rada, but both can be dangerous if angry or upset. Neither is "good" or "evil" in relation to the other.

Everyone is said to have spirits, and each person is considered to have a special relationship with one particular spirit who is said to "own their head", however each person may have many lwa, and the one that owns their head, or the "met tet", may or may not be the most active spirit in a person's life in Haitian belief.

In serving the spirits, the Vodouisant seeks to achieve harmony with their own individual nature and the world around them, manifested as personal power and resourcefulness in dealing with life. Part of this harmony is membership in and maintaining relationships within the context of family and community. A Vodou house or society is organized on the metaphor of an extended family, and initiates are the "children" of their initiators, with the sense of hierarchy and mutual obligation that implies...
Most Vodouisants are not initiatedreferred to as being "bosal"; it is not a requirement to be an initiate in order to serve one's spirits.

After a day or two of preparation setting up altars, ritually preparing and cooking fowl and other foods, etc., a Haitian Vodou service begins with a series of Catholic prayers and songs in French, then a litany in Kreyol and African "langaj" that goes through all the European and African saints and lwa honored by the house, and then a series of verses for all the main spirits of the house. This is called the "Priye Gine" or the African Prayer. After more introductory songs, beginning with saluting the spirit of the drums named Hounto, the songs for all the individual spirits are sung, starting with the Legba family through all the Rada spirits, then there is a break and the Petwo part of the service begins, which ends with the songs for the Ghede family. As the songs are sung spirits will come to visit those present by taking possession of individuals and speaking and acting through them. Each spirit is saluted and greeted by the initiates present and will give readings, advice and cures to those who approach them for help. Many hours later in the wee hours of the morning, the last song is sung, guests leave, and all the exhausted hounsis and houngans and manbos can go to sleep.

On the individual's household level, a Vodouisant or "sevité"/"serviteur" may have one or more tables set out for their ancestors and the spirit or spirits that they serve with pictures or statues of the spirits, perfumes, foods, and other things favored by their spirits. The most basic set up is just a white candle and a clear glass of water and perhaps flowers. On a particular spirit's day, one lights a candle and says an Our Father and Hail Mary, salutes Papa Legba and asks him to open the gate, and then one salutes and speaks to the particular spirit like an elder family member. Ancestors are approached directly, without the mediating of Papa Legba, since they are said to be "in the blood".


Myths and Misconceptions
Public relations-wise, Vodou has come to be associated in the popular mind with such phenomena as "zombies" and "voodoo dolls". While there is ethnobotanical evidence relating to "zombie" creation, it is a minor phenomenon within rural Haitian culture and not a part of the Vodou religion as such. Such things fall under the auspices of the "bokor" or sorcerer rather than the priest of the Lwa Gine.

The practice of sticking pins in "voodoo dolls" has been used as a method of cursing an individual by some followers of what has come to be called "New Orleans Voodoo", which is a local variant of hoodoo. This practice is not unique to New Orleans "voodoo" however and has as much basis in European-based magical devices such as the "poppet" as the nkisi or bocio of West and Central Africa. "Voodoo" dolls are not a feature of Haitian religion, although dolls intended for tourists may be found in the Iron Market in Port au Prince. The practice became closely associated with Vodou in the public mind through the vehicle of horror movies.

Myths and Misconceptions
These are more of what the reader wants to read so hence, the zombie like character.

Now I will go back starting with pure, and follow up. Thanks, really you have shed more light on the story than I could see. That is exactly what I was looking for. I knew The story was hurting I just couldn't see, excluding several of the obvious gramatical problems. They didn't bother me as much as the overall picture.
 
Pure mentioned possiably placing this story into the Erotic Horror genre. I forgot about this genre and now looking back I might agree especialy if you play up the spirit side of voodoo which you seem to have a good knowledge of.
 
Pure said:
Hi Phil,

Interesting story. It's fairly time demanding, so you'll have to excuse that I read all of it once, and some parts twice. No doubt I missed some things, and fell free to disregard criticisms based on misreading or overlooking. (OTOH, most people dont want to study a story as if it were Finnegan's Wake, and read it 20 times.)
You have read Finnegans Wake? Not a problem I am well aware a good percentage of this thread is based on a personal opinion.
//Is there enough erotic scenes?//

yes

//Should the ending be different?//

see below

//I thought about the ending being a rape scene, then the confrontation. what do you think?//

that's how it is now; see below

//Is the time displacement easy to follow?//

not too bad, except for the sequence that may not have happened
I am only guessing the idea of a timeless occurance is not a great idea for a Lit story. Part of the reason is because the story is based on the supernatural. Spirits have no time restrictions
//The Jamaican dialect with the translation next to it. Is that a pain in the ass to read? Does it hinder the story or give it a Jamaican feel?//

I haven't seen this done before, within the text. Sometimes it was not necessary. I think a lot of dialect does help the 'feel.'
Getting more feelings the Jamaican dialect is ok.
//How boring is it between erotic scenes? What could be cut down and what should be elaborated on? //

The erotic scenes are, imo, nothing to read the story for. *They could be cut down. Their detail is unnecessary.
I am laughing, But I think I know what you mean. The story did not start out as a way to push preparatory erotism.
//Did you get a sense of real feelings from the story?//

The man's anguish came across. Wife's mental states do not.
Ok, you are certainly not the first to say that the female has no points in the story.
//Is the story visual enough, to know what the enviroments are like?//

Yes.

//I know this is not a real wanker of a story, it could be. I was in one of those softer moods when I started it. I kind of like it soft though. If I was to move this from the romance category into another category. My thoughts were to place a rape scene at the end, and elaborate more on the drugged night ritual sex. Perhaps change the wife scene into a bit more harsh dom, and call the story Non-consent. //

I'm not sure it needs to be 'sexed up.' Or made into 'nonconsent.'
-----
Strengths

The writing often has a good flow to it, and is highly literate with a some odd flaws. You (he writer) seem to have extensive knowledge of Jamaica and its dialect, and infuse the story with this Jamaican color. (Not having been there, I can't comment on 'authenticity', but there's the feel of it.)
I have several good friends that live there. Thay are how I obtained the correct spellings, and stuff. Some of it is first hand knowledge.
The central idea, as old as Macbeth, or maybe Oedipus, is of a prophecies and the unforseen unfoldings of events. It seems like a good one, basically well handled through several twists and turns.

Other Issues and Problems

Reminds me a bit of Wide Sargasso Sea. Also I think of Poe's 'Black Cat,' as far as the method of narration goes.
'Shakespear, Sophocles I am not. Poe on the other hand I can't seem to break from his style of writing. Brief nondescriptive foreshadowing with a sense of demented thoughts making way for self destruction. All the time adding a hidden inside joke! Yup that is me.
Overall, it seems somewhat like a draft with lots of ideas. The writing is often good, though sometimes lazy. Many distracting errors like 'dejected from my body.' (quoting from memory).
Hm, dejected was purposely placed in there, and was not a lazy pick. It was a play on words. The word had deeper meaning than excreting from the mouth.
dejected - affected or marked by low spirits; "is dejected but trying to look cheerful"

Neither the man nor the woman (wife) characters quite come together. Again, I think of the Black Cat, and there the man's course of life (trajectory) is rather clear (alcoholism, leading to evil). This man's character, at times, is like a lead in a Penthouse magazine story, though at other times has some sensitivity; complexity is not his strong suit (i.e, the author did not attempt to make him very complex.)
Ok, now that was low Penthose forum? Ouch! LOL No really, I thought if the main character was complex it would make this story even harder to follow. The idea was this was a man any man. Could even be you! Who was cought up in a spirtual belief he did not have any belief in. Still, believing or not fate was stronger than his free will.
I liked it best when the man saw the clothes and just went away for a few days. The second time was a bit of a stretch, and i couldn't figure out whether he fucked her ass or not. It seems not, but what's there to wipe on the curtains.
I am gathering quickly that is a trouble spot. He spit on her ass as a degragation to her. For no other purpose, but to degrade her
The 'wife' character does not really come together well; I guess she's a floozy, but she doesn't talk much until she's being walked out on. That scene is a bit awkward. I would have had him say less, but just tell the reader what he'd done. i.e., 'I walked out. She'd find the business sold and the money gone when next she went to the bank.' These 'walk in on them in the act' scenes seem pretty common in this joe's life. More subtle signs of infidelity could or could have been chosen.
I do think it may be a bit past the point of believability for the story. I will consider a different approach or maybe a different set up for leaving the wife.
The sex scenes seem a bit contrived, as if you're trying to 'spice up' the story for the porn hounds of literotica. Why not go for those that like a good read, and can find something else to wank to? Much of the story is a 'good read' as a romance/mystery.
See my last comment.
The ending {beginning with the discovery of the rape in progress}. Looking it over {Added: 5-29: except for the last two paras}, I gather that the child really is his; at first I did not know if that was an illusion. I gather that the woman is the woman from the [fuck the narrator] ceremony. Further I gather this is the young woman pointed out by the witch, early on. None of this is easy to see; maybe you want there to be some doubt?
Yeah, is that wrong I did not want to come out and say this is the same female. However I wanted the reader just to believe the same events. Taken from the very begining they were repeating the like process. Same day same event same type of situation. For all practical Voodoo reasons the same spirits, yet different characters, different time.
I suppose the problem is that it's unclear whether he imagined the [tied up fuck scene] scene or not. The scar says 'yes' but there's no time it could have happened.
Again this was a demented mind game, dealing with the supernatural. Showing that time has no bearing factor on forces beyond the world as we percieve it.
[strumming my fingers] It might be best for the story to give a place in time maybe a period of time that is too short for the events, yet still there. This might help the reader deal with the loss of time that wasn't lost. Part of the reason to not have it obvious this is supernatural is the whole idea of him having a child, that is his. BUT is also really the dead man's from the begining of the story.

{{Added, in reexamining the time markers for the third time: I see

On Saturday morning I awoke early, around five and with coffee in hand I proceeded to walk the beach, when I came to a man who was selling conch shells in the water.

I awoke in the bed at the resort, looked about, and my wife was sleeping. Then I looked at the clock it was five am. I slid out of bed, put on a t-shirt and swim trunks.


IF both markers are true, there's no time for an excursion. Indeed there's not more than ten minutes for a dream, if that.
Uh yeah, that was really the point there was less time the second time around. No way did this happen unless there really is another dimension.
If the first marker is misleading or occuring within a dream only, that would free up the night at least. OTOH, if that marker's misleading(untrue), then he can't really get to the beach and take the pill, which leads to xyz.

That's as far as I can analyze the puzzle.}}
I am gathering the puzzle is harder than I first thought. Only a few people have actually understood the whole puzzle. I am starting to think for a quick read it is not clear enough. Most people are not going to place that much thought into it. See it was explained in the story, much earlier back when the priestess confirmed she would see him on saturday. then the driver, confirms her, then the picture. Which I will add is a female but holds a male title. See the priestess/witch held no concept of time when the man took it literal. Saturday was not Saturday then, nor was Saturday Saturday When all this happened on Saturday
~~~~Quote
Now, flying on Air Jamaica of course the propaganda was going to reflect Jamaica. I pulled out this book from the pouch in front of me and it was called “Destination Jamaica”. I let it slip and as I caught it, the book was opened to page 131 for those of you who might have a copy. The topic was “Arts and Crafts” with a photo of an old painting displayed. I became flush, this was the woman. The subtitle read, “Girl in blue, often referred to as the father of Jamaican art”. This was ridiculous, this was a painting looking at me. But it looked so much like her, just different. I snapped the book closed. My thought made me smile, “it is Sunday ‘bitch’, you are too late. See ya!"

You didn't think I just stuck this crap in to take up space. "Destination Jamaica" See the priestess was the lady 'Girl in blue' (and really is called the farther of Jamaican art even though female that part is true) So she would be dead as far as time goes. That is why it is ridiculous. Then the character makes comment it is Sunday you are too late.
Not really because she was not refering to Saturday like he was. Which is the Sabbath day.
OK maybe I was smoking too much Ganga, and listening to Bob Marley. A few people got it. I don't know how complete, but they understood the concept.

I suppose the reader can picture the event on another plane of time and space, outside our normal world and its timeline. But then you want an actual kid to turn up. If the kid's existence were dubious (or only on the 'other plane'), it would make more sense. As it is now, you're implying sex did happen, though there was no time it could have. The reader has to live with that contradiction.

Yup! I know some readers are just not going to grasp the idea that Voodoo is based on reality as we know it, and the spirit world.
{Added 5-29: I have only one comment, below, on the last two paras, and the voice or writing apparently during and after death.}

Now I guess one main problem, the 'trick' of the story is to have her (mystery young woman) turn up. It appears you decided it should be an attempted rape/murder AND in his hotel room. Seems a bit much. Guy's always walking in on something! If he'd come across her being assaulted on a path to the beach--iow, something simple--that would work better for me. King Kong seems unnecessary
Lmao, You have not seen some of the Jamaican men. I mean wholly shit some are big, King Kong was my first impression. The idea of the ending scene was to mimick what happened to the couple at the begining of the story. However to make them married just did not have a place other than the ritual scene. I left that up to the reader to decide. Killing the female with out the child was going to make the story over the edge.
Overall, I'd say the thing has to be tightened and focused in several ways alluded to, above, and you obviously have the talent to pull it together. Not to sound like the musician in Amadeus, I say there are too many words (about a thousand). And especially around the sex, they're not fresh.
I know, but the sex was never the real story, it was placed to ensure there was a purpose.
I'd say you have to decide if the whole thing is to fall together--like a story when the reader 'figures it all out' or whether the whole thing is a conundrum (the illogical[perplexing] imaginings of someone who's had a mental fugue or breakdown). If the latter, maybe have him in a drunken stupor in the last scene, so we don't *know if it happened; yet see a short police report in the paper.
He was suppose to be drunk. LOL I guess I missed on that one too. Hm, a paper clip or something could help sum it up, for those who didn't get it.
You might give attention to the 'framing' of the story. Make it more like the Black Cat. Circular.
OK, but it was intended to be a big circle.
{{Added 5-29: I don't find the existing framing--dead man's narrative--very plausible or, because of its placement, effective.}}
I have been told that, and that accounts for some of the mis-understood tense through out the story.

Iow start the story with him and a mysterious lady, in a brief scene whose nature is unclear. THEN go back to the first plane flight in, with his wife.... Decide if it's to make sense (most of the black cat does, except for weird coincidences). IS there any way it can all be explained? (even if a shadow of doubt remains). Decide on the answer and make the story fit. Personally i like stories that COULD have happened. There's a real possibility for each event. BUT there's a plausible other reading that's very mysterious.
The facts should all line up. At least they do I think. Part of the reason for the time stretch is for the age of the girl. And Lit rules, she needs to be over 18. Reality stories are my pick, and writing a reality story that could be but takes a leap of faith is going to come off as weird coincidences. Part of the reasoning for the drugs alone was to give the reader a break. Most can understand drugs making one loose time, and say this isn't real. The end has him drunk to also give the rational reader a way to explain his deleria in what he thinks could be.
Sorry I don't have more time. No doubt I've missed clues and scrambled the thing. But as an author you have to consider where readers get tripped up, and unless you're Joyce or Woolfe, you have to clarify as much as possible.

Best,
J.

PS {added after reading the other comments}. Lyingeyes had trouble with the characters, too, I see. However, I would not,myself, call for much more *character description* as Lying does. I would say more has to be conveyed and indicated (the old 'show don't tell' axiom).
Actually I think that was more or less Lying's point as well.
PPS. It occurs to me that one way to ease the time problem is to have the encounter(with friend) and golf game framed differently: have those events seem as if they're happening, but have him then 'wake up', for example on the plane. Iow, have it be possible that there was in fact no golf game that afternoon.

If I do that I will have to explain where the man has been to the friends, wife. I want to keep it as it is all in his head at that point. Other than the scar he can't explain or recall another reason for obtaining. That was intended to give credibility that it was not just a dream.

Thank you for your time, you have questioned many of the things that have made me hold off on posting. Each piece makes me see things I am not seeing.

Phil
 
Rumple Foreskin said:
Phil,

Either this is a very imaginative read or you’ve lead one helluva interesting life. :)
I have one hell of a interesting life. However this has plenty of creativity in it as well.
However and IMHO, this story would get bombed in the Romance category. For one thing, there is no real “romance” until the protag’s death scene at the end of the story. Even then it’s very brief and almost hidden by the attempted violence to the girl and the double killing.
Well this has been one of my issues. First though I need to refine the story so it makes sense. Well, makes sense to others I mean. Then I can decide better what category it falls into. I am not opposed to any of the categories really. I do like to think I try to place a story properly. Based on the readers wants more than quanity of readers. I would rather have five people who like to read the story, than 50k that were tricked.
To be honest one of the things I really have been bouncing is category. BT who has been wonderful has given me many ideas as well. Still I will make a better decision after I clean it up so that it is more story-ish, and less Phils mind.

I did some line editing of the first few paragraphs in CAPS. With luck, one or two of my suggestions might even be useful.

Rumple Foreskin :cool:

--

Is there enough erotic scenes?

RF: No. The ’92 couple are on their honeymoon, but there is no sex or even much reference to sex in the first half of the story.

That was what I was wondering. Exactly with that question. Here is the catch 22: Another sex scene makes the story longer. :another adds immediate interest. :Another also makes the wife a prominate character, more so than she is. I was really trying to keep her fourth place. As it currently is she competes for second place. I think that is why many are asking for her to do more. When I was intending the story to be between the man and the Jamacan girl. Then with the intervention of the priestess they are brought together over time.
Thus the wife was fully intended to be a disposable character.

--

Should the ending be different?

RF: Romance tends to lean toward Happy Ever After (HEA) endings. This most definitely isn’t one.

:) Ok I have read/decifer too many poe works. LOL really if you look at the end.
~~Quote
Give me a kiss before you tell me goodbye. Never mind the darkness coming in now, we can still find a way. Maybe someday we will never say, “Good bye.”

For the brief moment although brief. The two spirits were together sharing a moment of love they might not otherwise had. The happy part is they may not have accomplished it this time, but they have not given up. I guess that would be hard to see if you had not figured out they are really the same two that are slain in the begining.

--

I thought about the ending being a rape scene, then the confrontation. what do you think?

RF: It already reads like an attempted rape followed by a double murder. As a rule, rape and romance are not compatible.

-Yeah well I needed a reason for him to play hero then accept the fate set fourth in the begining of the story. -

Is the time displacement easy to follow?

RF: Yes

--

The Jamaican dialect with the translation next to it. Is that a pain in the ass to read? Does it hinder the story or give it a Jamaican feel?

RF: It doesn’t hinder the story BUT, the reader needs some explanation about who is doing the translation. And during the voodoo ceremony, the translations temporarily end.

I guess that was my point as well. Because no one is doing the translation. It is more or less placed as double script.
~~~quote
Di wola dem a me fambly."

If I just placed text that read like that. I really think most people will have no clue as to what a "Di wala dem" says. The other options were to eliminate the creo all together. Or only place easily understood words. That is why only the begining does the Jamaican talk, until the timeless Saturday. And then only translated as it was absolutely needed to ensure the reader knew the pieces to the puzzle.

--

How boring is it between erotic scenes?

RF: Possibly because the first half of the story is devoid of sex, the periods between the sex scenes didn’t seem boring in comparison.
Ok I get the point. :)
--

What could be cut down and what should be elaborated on?

RF: That depends on the way you want to tell your story.

--

Did you get a sense of real feelings from the story?

RF: No. Maybe because there was not descriptions of the nameless main characters.
The name would not have done anything, but give an identity. Making the character unable to be just any guy.I know I need to give him more identity. That complexes his ability to be any reader that picks up the story.
--

Is the story visual enough, to know what the environments are like?

RF: No. Here’s one example. In the scene after the bus hits the goat, when the protag walks behind the beer stand, I know he can see the ocean, but I’ve got no idea what the land around him looks like.
Good point. There are mountains, and old farm like stting and all. You couldn't see that ey'. I can either practice my mental telepathy or fill in some real scenery. "Thinking real hard." not working? Ok option two.
--

I know this is not a real wanker of a story, it could be. I was in one of those softer moods when I started it. I kind of like it soft though. If I was to move this from the romance category into another category. My thoughts were to place a rape scene at the end, and elaborate more on the drugged night ritual sex. Perhaps change the wife scene into a bit more harsh dom, and call the story Non-consent.

I just know I am going to get the average 7,000 views in the romance category and that bugs me most of all. What would you do leave it alone or manipulate it into another category?

RF: You might also consider Erotic Horror or Mind Control as alternative categories.

I don't read either category. Would this really be mind control? I will have to stroll through the lists to see what readers of those categories seem to find proper.
--


Voodoo Don’t Work on You?

A Caribbean love story of a fate with no control


The story I am about to share with you is a personal experience. The facts are mostly true, the people are real. I must hide the identity, as you are aware. (WHO IS THIS? THE PROTAG IS YOUR NARRATOR BUT HE DIES AT THE END OF THE STORY.)
Yes, LOL I know this makes the tense screw up through out the story. He has to be telling the story in past tense. Obvious he dies at the end of this story. But he dies as well in the begining of the story. And skips time in the middle. :D To clarify by the time this story is written/shared (he) would be on his third human life, to be making the opening statement. Completes the circle of the story. I only know of one other person who caught the loop at the end, it is a dead man twice writing the story.

The date is 1962,(IS THIS A TYPO FOR 1992?) Nope! That is the corect date. April the Tenth. The “Jamaican Labor Party” is announced victorious. In another place (OMIT “IN ANOTHER PLACE”)I can, but another place is refering to a distinctly different place on the other side of Kingston Jamaica, away from all the celebration(COMMA) there is(OMIT “THERE IS”) I can see that, and why. a newly married couple of wealth which(OMIT “WHICH”)Are you sure, he is refering to himself, in past. Which witch is which?LOL is peacefully bedding down for their consummation of vows. (THAT MAY BE A RECORD NUMBER OF NITS PICKED IN ONE SENTENCE) They have chosen Kingston as so many others have for the rich cultural roots and large city style life it embraces.


The morning news runs out as the papers and radio broadcast(S) dampen(S) slightly(OMIT “SLIGHTLY” REDUNDANT)"Slightly" is redundant. The (S) changes the time to current, we are still past here. I know you didn't realize this was past. the news of the victory so earnestly welcomed by the Jamaican people.(AWKWARD) Over the radio, “A couple de marriage from the parish of St. Ann has been slain inna most vicious attack. It look to have been burglars, uh did see dat? Report to authorities A(a) who dat?”(GOOD DIALOGUE, BUT WOULD A RADIO ANNOUNCER HAVE SUCH A THICK ACCENT?)Really? They are much harder to understand, but I didn't want to start translating yet.


(NEED A SCENE/TIME SHIFT MARKER SUCH AS A, #.)
That was a concern. If I place a time shift marker in. What do I do when there is a time shift later in the story when there really is not a time shift? That was one of the reasons asking if the time changes could be followed. I figured the dream day was going to be difficult to understand as happening, but not happening time wise.

On April 9, 1992 I was gloriously married, and (OMIT ‘AND” BEGIN NEW SENTENCE)I know that is a poor sentence But I need the date. See it is the day before he is murdered years later and also gives a time to start the the age of the girl comming up. my new bride and I had planned our honeymoon on the exotic shores of Jamaica. We arrived the day following the ceremony (MOVE “WE ARRIVED” HERE -- UNLESS THE CEREMONY WAS IN MONTEGO BAY)I can move that, the only purpose for that sentence it to prove it is the 10th now. in Montego Bay and found our decrepit minibus. The driver, Paul, acknowledged all on board and extended a most vibrant welcome, “Irie”. (“cool, good, nice”) It means all the above and several other plesantries At which time(OMIT “AT WHICH TIME) Yup! he briefly mentioned the two hour bus tour to the hotel resort Couples in Runaway Bay. Then he rambled on about obscure facts and things to do while visiting.


The excitement was a growing knot in my stomach. I had wished for this moment to arrive for over six months now(OMIT “NOW”)OK . I had visited every site on the net. I had researched all the information available. The resort catered to every whim and included all amenities. The nude island was the grand focal point as my thoughts slipped into a dream (THAT WAS)Yup! about to become a reality. (WHAT ABOUT HIS BRIDE? THIS IS A ROMANCE BUT SO FAR HE HASN’T EVEN MENTIONED HER NAME.)She is not important other than she exists. She has a purpose for being the serpent the priestess says she is.


“HONK, honk!” I awakened(WOKE) wrong tense? as the bus sidestepped around (SWERVED TO AVOID?)Ok a goat and just(SQUEEZED?) Sqeezed implies they fit between. When they did not. past an oncoming car. My thought changed quick, ‘holy shit’ I was going to die just moments away from my dream vacation(HONEYMOON?)Honey moon would be restating the obvious of previous mentioned. Dream vacation was breaking away already as he was more interested in the vacation than the wife. . “Thudump!” I knew now we did not miss the ragged goat. The bus pulled to the side. The driver Paul exited the bus(OMIT “THE BUS”), and then was(OMIT “THEN WAS” ADD “BEGAN”)Ok loudly talking to another Jamaican man.


Driver: "A fe me cyar." ("It's my car.") (WHO IS TRANSLATING? IF IT’S THE GUY, SOME EXPLANATION NEEDS TO BE GIVEN)
No body is translating. So how do I explain to the reader the double script is only if you do not understand what the Jamaican said? Otherwise pretend it is not there.

Man: "Chobble nuh nice." "Yuh inna big chobble." ("Trouble is not nice." "You are in big trouble.") "Di wola dem a me fambly."(“All of them are my family.")


Driver: Pointed at us in the bus. "Ef yuh chobble 'dim, me a guh bax yuh". ("If you trouble them, I am going to hit you.")


Shaken, my wife grasped my hand and mentioned we should get off the bus and stretch or something. Stepping out I noticed the dead carcass and looked away, not needing that in my thoughts of passion tonight. It was too late; etched in my mind like a photograph. (FRAGMENT)LOL I don't think that is the only one. I try to avoid fragments, sometimes they just seem to fit so good. The blood streaked down the side of the bus and parts(OF WHAT?)Your right that is one of my peves. It has been too long since I had mentioned it was the goat. were torn. Chunks of bloody flesh and hair enveloped the rear axle, bumper and street behind.


Keeping my wife’s eyes away I led her (MOVE “ACROSS THE WAY” HERE)Ok toward a roadside shanty across the way that sold beer. Soon other couples followed as it was now evident this was going to take a while. I sipped a Red Stripe beer and my wife became friendly talking with others from the bus.


Looking about, I meandered behind the bright colored shack. The ocean was so beautiful, (NEW SENTENCE)Yeah, I like to keep my readers out of breath. it was a blue/green that was more than I could capture even in a picture. The water glistened to my sight, the phosphor made it appear to glow.(IN THE DAYLIGHT?)Actually yes it does. You can see it in one of the old James bond movies. Sean Connery very seldom leaves the island so 50% of the movies he stars in are filmed in Jamaica. I was entranced, strolling closer to the water’s edge, I was disturbed.(THE SENTENCE BEGINS “I WAS ENTRANCED” AND ENDS “I WAS DISTURBED” – PICK ONE OR THE OTHER.) gotcha :D missed that one.

Thanks for the imput. Some significant changes can be made from subtle mentions. And it did bother me that the begining was so long without any entertainement. Originally I had outlined this to be eight stories. All takeoffs from the core story. This story would not have had any sex in it. But with a link to the other story already posted as the reader approached an area. Then the other story would have just been the sex story. Example the part they are on the honey moon would have had a link and the whole honey moon would have been that story. That would have cut down on some of the confusion/frustration, but it would also create other problems.

Will be checking to see if you are able, or anyone can answer some of the other questions.

Thanks, Phil
 
I will return when I wake up in the morning my eyes are going bonkers. dr.m You have answered so many questions in your first post. I will get to it when I return.

To answer a common question " i believe I mentioned being struck by the seemingly odd choice of the author to have the man come across the girl IN his room, AND being raped.

The set up was there
~~~~quote

She told me she had but one bed left for the night but I would have to pay for two nights. I knew the game and just agreed as it was more suited than sleeping on the ground. She handed me a key and said: "Enjoy the evening’s celebration."

Making my way up to the room I entered the small area. The room was rather nice with a ceiling fan turning the air and a large window overlooking the main street below. I was surprised this room actually had a bathroom. Antiquated but still a private bath was unique. I sat down on one of the two beds and looking between I saw luggage, not much, but more than I had. I looked around, there was no one there. Then it hit me what the lady garbled to me, “She has but one bed.” I shook my head and wondered who my roommate would be.


I suppose it would be nice to mention the king kong guy was originally her husband or X. That was dismissed, along the way. I can see that it is a problem now as well. Or I should give the reason he is a burglar as well.

No it is not a draft, other than I am wiling to change it. So it will benifit readers, and not cause a barage of questions. It is a cut down story.
I can plainly see there is a problem with the time frame. And that starts most of the questions from the begining.

In any case I am exceptionally happy with all you have said. I was never looking for compliments. I can write stories that get useless praise. I was looking for the truth. How blunt can I be, "It is just a story to me." No hard feelings here what so ever. I can learn from that.

tired,
Phil
 
hi phil,

i'm glad you're reading these pieces, and it's good to see you not getting into some state of 'offense' where none was intended.

to a degree i can see a set up for the final encounter: if she has borne his child, she goes to his hotel room to be with him (though of course she'd have to find out [know] about his trip before arrived). and the hotel lady, at the young lady's request, make it possible with two beds.

one could then postulate that hubby had a clue and follows/finds her there, and... maybe *punishes or kills her (rape and kill is not a common response to an unfaithful wife.)

what the issue, is, is that you're thinking mainly from the writer's pov. what, *in your mind* makes sense of a sequence.

Yet any sequence can be made sense of.

John saw a rabbit.
John's wife let a lover in the door.
The wife's friend Janet, found her cat dead.


Explanation. // John was coming home, and there were lots of rabbits around his country home, whom his wife would leave food for, near the back door. When the lover went in the door, it scared a rabbit who was sniffing at the door for some food. The lover had formerly been seeing Janet, but Janet had become a psychotic stalker. After many attempts to get through, the lover threatened to kill her cat, if she didn't leave him alone, and he decided to frighten her by heavily sedating her cat, since he didn't want to kill it, but he misjudged the cat's age and sensitivity.//

One point of mysteries is that the *reader, at least after the fact has, _at least theoretically_ a way of explaining things to his/her satisfaction. And that explanation is anchored to clues, which the reader sometimes noted, but failed to grasp the import, which seems plausible after the fact, and coheres with the story.

In short, you can't be too 'reader unfriendly'. Further the payoff must be proportional to the intrinsic interest of the mystery(ies) generated.

Since you're explaining, maybe clear up the problem that there's no time for a dream or real encounter (man and young woman), AND were there are dream encounter, there'd be no child, hence no story. AND there's no evidence that the Saturday golf game didn't happen.

Reminds me a bit of 'groundhog day,' the movie where the same day keeps happening every morning the man wakes up.

Again, I'm sure I missed clues and that there's subtleties I remain unaware of.! Hence this dialogue! :)
 
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Hi A7inchPhildo,

As always, I have refrained from reading any others' comments before I post my own, so my thoughts may be rehashes of what's already been said. I'm not as good at this as some others are... I apologize for that...

I really like the idea of the story... of mixing the Voodoo religion in with a story about sex, love, and betrayal. It's a fascinating idea. Unfortunately its execution here, I think, falls a bit flat. It's simply very hard to know what's going on. This story took reading, and re-reading to really get an idea of how the events unfolded, how the narrator felt about them, and what in fact was going on. It was very difficult to read, both from a story standpoint, and from a grammar standpoint as well. I think it would have behooved you to really have gone through the story with a fine tooth comb and smoothed out some of the awkwardness, vagueness and grammatical errors BEFORE you submitted it for discussion. I think the comments you'd have gotten back would have been more rewarding than what you might get now.

The most glaring problem that I had was that I simply had a hard time following it. Perhaps I'm just an idiot--and that is MORE than possible, and I could be the only one who had this problem. The story just seemed... disjointed, like you didn't have a specific purpose in writing it, yet you seem to have written it to fulfill a purpose nonetheless. The ending is especially confounding. He dies, he has a child, but other than the witch's "prophecy" coming true--basically having had it forced upon him by a black pill, two guys in a boat, and a Voodoo sexual ceremony, I don't really see what he learned or gained from the whole experience. There's fantastic potential here, but the story isn't near fleshed out enough or focused enough for it to have really realized it.

Another issue I had was with characterization, and a little too much "tell" and not enough "show". Everyone but the narrator seems like a stick figure to me. His wife is probably one of the most potentailly interesting characters in the whole story, but we barely know her. If we knew her better (whether she's wicked or not doesn't matter), we'd certainly better appreciate the narrator's hatred toward her by the end. We'd certainly get more out of her husband's grudge-fuck before he leaves her. Again, it ties in with the "prophecy" but.. only by the thinnest of threads. There simply doesn't seem to be a cohesive throughline that I could follow. There's potentially great, character establishing dialogue that is simply passed over as the narrator opts to tell us what happens rather than show us. These kind of choices really made it hard for me to immerse myself into the environment the narrator is in, and deal with the charaters he encounters on his level.

I think that's enough of my rambling, pointless overview. Now on to your specific questions:

Is there enough erotic scenes?

Well, that depends. Are there enough erotic scenes for you? That just depends on what kind of story you're trying to write. I thought the number of scenes was fine, I just had some issues with the detail and quality with which those scenes were presented. The voodoo ceremony was excellent, probably the most interesting section in the whole story. I still wished there was some more detail, however. I have a feeling you might have held back a little, and I wanted to know what else you had up your sleeve. The wife grudge fucking was the kind of thing that's right up my alley, and I wish that were explored a little bit more too, not necessarily in terms of the sex itself, but the events and feelings that LED to that sex scene! Once again, though, I understand why you wouldn't want to linger too long on the actual sex. You had a grander story to tell, afterall--I just wasn't clear on exactly what it was.

Should the ending be different?

The problem I had with the ending wasn't that he died, but simply WHY did all this happen? It seemed to come out of the blue, the big hulky guy choking this girl in his room. What was she doing there? Was she about to give him an explanation that we never got? Who was the hulky guy? It was all just so confusing that my head was spinning. Some tie-in with the rest of the story would have been nice... some realization, or understanding. After I read the last line, I simply didn't understand why you wrote it, or what I was to get out of it.

I thought about the ending being a rape scene, then the confrontation. what do you think?

I'm the kind of guy who's ALL FOR more sex, but on the other hand... since I don't know who the big guy was, or, at that point, who the girl was, and in the meantime, why the narrator would simply stand by and watch a girl be raped in front of him, concluding the story with a rape before the confrontation just doesn't make much sense.

Is the time displacement easy to follow?

Not really. Like I said, I had to read several passages a couple times before I felt I had an inkling of what was happening and when. And again the overall question that kept circling my mind was "Why? Why is he telling me all this?" Not that you don't have a reason, I just never was able to figure out what it was.

The Jamaican dialect with the translation next to it. Is that a pain in the ass to read? Does it hinder the story or give it a Jamaican feel?

At first it bothered me a little, but after all is said and done, I thought it played a part in setting up the environment that an alternative method may not have done as well. I'm not sure though. There might have been better ways to do it, but I didn't mind this way.

How boring is it between erotic scenes? What could be cut down and what should be elaborated on?

I think you really give us a lot of extraneous information that can be cut. There are a lot of details that just don't seem important that slow down the reading of your story. I imagine alot of them are included for mood's sake, but I really think that the writing could be greatly economized and still give off the same atmosphere. I give an example or two below.

Did you get a sense of real feelings from the story?

Sometimes, but... not very often. As I said, I didn't really get a feel for any of the characters other than the narrator. And without understanding the characters he's interacting with, it was sometimes VERY difficult to understand his reactions to them. In many cases, there was too much narrative, and not enough dialogue, I thought.

Is the story visual enough, to know what the enviroments are like?

Through several of the devices you used, I did get a sense of environment throughout the story. I thought you did well in that sense, but the way you did it seemed to sacrifice efficiency in story-telling in the process. For more details, see some of my specific comments below.

I know this is not a real wanker of a story, it could be. I was in one of those softer moods when I started it. I kind of like it soft though. If I was to move this from the romance category into another category. My thoughts were to place a rape scene at the end, and elaborate more on the drugged night ritual sex. Perhaps change the wife scene into a bit more harsh dom, and call the story Non-consent.

I just know I am going to get the average 7,000 views in the romance category and that bugs me most of all. What would you do leave it alone or manipulate it into another category?

This question just confuses me. I wouldn't be manipulating any story into any category. I'd just ... tell the story. What feels right to you? What is true to what you envisioned? Then again, I don't write for categories, or for the most reads necessarily. I just write what I think feels right. I'd rather it be read because it's interesting, not because it falls into a specific category. I guess I'm not the best person to answer this question.


OK. Now to the last "stream of consciousness" section of my critique. I've pulled out a few quotes from your story and will try to comment in specifics on the general points I've made above, in addition to pointing out some typical awkward grammar problems that I encountered:

--
The date is 1962, April the Tenth. The "Jamaican Labor Party" is announced victorious. In another place on the other side of Kingston Jamaica, away from all the celebration there is a newly married couple of wealth which is peacefully bedding down for their consummation of vows. They have chosen Kingston as so many others have for the rich cultural roots and large city style life it embraces.

The morning news runs out as the papers and radio broadcast dampen slightly the news of the victory so earnestly welcomed by the Jamaican people. Over the radio, "A couple de marriage from the parish of St. Ann has been slain inna most vicious attack. It look to have been burglars, uh did see dat? Report to authorities A who dat?"

I have a couple of questions about this. This may very well be the crux of the story somehow. I really don't know, but as it stands, I don't understand what relevence it has. Why is this here? Maybe I'm just missing something glaringly obvious--forgive me if I am. The other question I have is The date is why is this written in present tense, while the rest of the story is in past tense? It implies significance beyond the confines of the story itself, but for the life of me, I can't see it.
--

--
On April 9, 1992 ...

The excitement was a growing knot in my stomach. I had wished for this moment to arrive for over six months now. I had visited every site on the net. I had researched all the information available. The resort catered to every whim and included all amenities. The nude island was the grand focal point as my thoughts slipped into a dream about to become a reality.

This may be nitpicky, but I don't know whether in 1992 there was much to research on the net... in terms of resorts. The net was really just getting started, and most businesses hadn't found their footing there, yet, let alone Jamaican resorts. Perhaps I'm wrong--again that's super nit-picky though.
--

--
I was entranced, strolling closer to the water’s edge, I was disturbed.

This is bad grammar, and awkward structure. Technically there should at least be a semi-colon here, and if it were me, I'd rewrite a bit and separate them into two sentences. At first it's not clear that by "disturbed" you mean he was interrupted. I thought you meant he was upset, or unsettled.
--


--
"You dayer, what you are trespassing fer mon?" Spoken by a woman behind me, with a certain deep bitterness in her voice.

This is a fragment.
--

--
I lie not, she stood at least seven feet tall, with a very dark complexion and intimidating, big in mass.

Awkward, and incorrect. Needs at least a semi-colon, or to be reworded into a couple sentences.
--

--
This woman looked at me and said, "Mi cyan 'elp yuh wit dat problem." ("I cannot help you with that problem.") "Give me ten dollars, and USA monies, no Jay money. I tell you what you need to know."

What problem? This is an example of how laborious the story is to read. Up to this point, there is no indication to either the reader, the narrator, or the woman that there is a problem to be solved, and what she says here is just simply confusing. I can understand if the point is that she says these things out of the blue, but the narrator doesn't at least acknowledge that HE'S confused, which leaves the readers feeling like they must have missed something.
--

--
I heard the woman speak and I halted my step, listened without turning about.

listened = listening?
--

"Yuh nuh dun yet?"("You have not finished yet?")

The question mark throws me here... is she asking a question, or is she telling him that he isn't finished?
--

--
She pointed to a young girl who might have been sixteen and explained that this was my love. The other was a serpent. She claimed the goats blood spilled for a purpose. All the while she talked she continued holding this odd stick in front of me with fashioned beads stringing from it.

So the girl was standing right there? Where did she come from? She was on the bus with them? The story does not make this clear. "The other was a serpent." I have no idea what this is in reference to. His other love is a serpent? Why not use dialogue to tell this part of the story, tell us what the woman said, specifically rather than having the narrator explain it, it might have more impact in terms of us evaluating her as a character and her legitimacy as a mysterious seer, or a hopeless wacko.
--

--
Ten minutes later we arrived at the resort. I was dripping sweat and relieved to be here at last, fourteen hours from door to door with one layover and one minor accident. I smiled at my wife as she went to check in at the desk. I waited for our luggage to be unpacked. Naturally ours was last and it was on top I thought.

Aside from the awkwardness I've already discussed in other passages that seems to be present in the second sentence here, I also get confused by the last sentence. Why the "I thought."? More importantly though, this whole paragraph brings up another issue I had with the story, the inclusion of unnecessary facts and details. Waiting for the luggage to be unpacked, and whether or not the narrator's bags were on top are things I simply don't need to know and clutters up the story. In fact, practically this whole passage seems superfluous. The only new and seemingly relavent information (in the sense of setting the mood) was the fact that the trip took 14 hours, and the narrator was sweating afterward. These two facts could have been much more economoically communicated as the action moved forward, rather than taking a few sentances to give us mundane details that aren't really important enough to mention for the story you're trying to tell.

One last thing about this passage. "I was dripping sweat and relieved to be here at last..." shouldn't here = there? IS the narrator still there, even as he tells the story, or are we switching suddenly to the present tense? It's nit-picky, but these are the kinds of things that slowed down my absorption of the story, and made me have to re-read passages in order to understand what was happening. I think you probably get the idea, and hey maybe some of these issues I've brought up are style choices. It's your choice to decide to ignore me or not. In any case, the rest of the story is littered with what I thought were some very awkward and unclear passages, and I won't belabor the point by pointing out each one of them.
--

--
Now, flying on Air Jamaica of course the propaganda was going to reflect Jamaica. I pulled out this book from the pouch in front of me and it was called "Destination Jamaica". I let it slip and as I caught it, the book was opened to page 131 for those of you who might have a copy. The topic was "Arts and Crafts" with a photo of an old painting displayed. I became flush, this was the woman. The subtitle read, "Girl in blue, often referred to as the father of Jamaican art". This was ridiculous, this was a painting looking at me. But it looked so much like her, just different. I snapped the book closed. My thought made me smile, "it is Sunday ‘bitch’, you are too late. See ya!"

Referencing the readers as "you" always seems to bother me a bit when it comes out of the blue like this. It's not for me to say if it's wrong, but I just don't understand the reason for it. It seems to me that if you're going to do this, then the readers should somehow play some small part in the story you are telling. Perhaps the narrator is telling this story to someone he knows, or to someone who has a special interest (and who the narrator assumes has special biases) that might relate to the overall tale in some way. If not, then I don't understand the purpose of mentioning the reader in this way at all. Again... perhaps I'm wrong, but in this particular case, it distracted me. Also, why the single quotes around the word "bitch"?
--

--
At the top of the list being this woman whom I married. She was by every description a man could give, a looker, a real "10". This might seem to be the ultimate wife to most who desire a flirtatious woman. The obsession that has consumed her was not exactly what I thought of when we married.

This description gives me no indication of what this woman looks like, or whether I'd find her attractive. Of course, perhaps that doesn't matter. It really depends on your purpose in writing the story, but she DOES get a good old-fashioned grudge fuck later on, and I'd really like to get some better idea of what she looked like, and heck, even what she was like in general before that happened. This is an example, I think, of too much "tell", and not enough "show".
--

--
In March 1996 I found myself on a Delta Airbus looking out the window at this tiny boat in the ocean. "Bing!" "This is your captain speaking. We are on final approach for Montego Bay. Estimated time of arrival is twenty minutes." I looked over across the aisle and my friend and his wife were grinning from ear to ear. I looked at my wife and I received a cheerless smile with a look of wonder about her marriage.

We flew in on a Wednesday to avoid the weekend rush, besides this gave us two days to adjust for the weekend and the never ending theme parties. The wicked person that my wife had become was more evident than ever. Only two days into the vacation and I could not stand to be with her. Imposing upon my friends, I would leave her with them as they toured different locations in the area.

Huh? You just seem to be glancing over too much information here. At some unknown date he discovers that his wife is cheating on him, but then he gets back together with her. Now she's giving him cheerless smiles with looks of "wonder about her marriage?". I get the gist...I think, but I'm still not completely clear in what's happening between them. Again, this could be a problem of the lack of characterization that really limits the appeal of this story to me. His wife is simply no more a real character to me than the narrator's clothes are. Not only do I not KNOW what's happening, but I feel so "out of the loop" that I only vaguely CARE. Again, it could partially be that you're telling us that the narrator's wife is "wicked" rather than showing us and letting us draw that conclusion for ourselves.
--

--
My body heaved as I dejected more vomit.

"dejected" just seems the strangest word to use there... it implies a context and meaning that doesn't fit with what the narrator is doing with his vomit. In some ways it's a style choice, but I would not have used this word. Is he really casting his vomit down by lowering its spirits, or disheartening it?
--

--
There are several quotation mark use issues. This just requires a good critical read through to catch some of the punctuation and grammatical mistakes.
--

--
Voices in my mind yelled out to me, but I was tired, I wanted to sleep. Suspended deep in a sea of black. I could leave so easily, when all I needed was clarity and someone to tell me. What the fuck is going on, God damn it! We were willing and wishful to be together and ever so close this time.

I wish you too could see this, because there is nothing to see. It is peaceful in my meaningless mind, and now once more it is fine with me. Not like the world where I used to be, maybe now they would be better off, if even with out me. I knew now having seen him, and her; life was complete.

So goodbye to you girl, so long and farewell. I can’t hear you crying, so don’t cry for me. Talk to me softly, I will know how you feel inside, I have been there before, you know all to well. Give me a whisper and a sigh. Give me a kiss before you tell me goodbye. Never mind the darkness coming in now, we can still find a way. Maybe someday we will never say, "Good bye."

Did he die? I guess he did... but what was he saying? Is there a grander point to this story that I'm missing? Where is the payoff for all that he's been through. I don't understand what clarity he's discovered, or what meaning his entire experience had for him. These last three paragraphs confuse me terribly.


Enough. As always, it's very important that I emphasize that I DON'T KNOW SHIT, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Make use of it or don't, it's your choice. I'd be very interested to see how this story turns out when you finally do post it, however. There's great potential here, it just doesn't seem to follow through quite yet. Thanks for listening, but again, this is only one guy's under-educated opinion. :)
 
Pure said:


Iow start the story with him and a mysterious lady, in a brief scene whose nature is unclear. THEN go back to the first plane flight in, with his wife.... Decide if it's to make sense (most of the black cat does, except for weird coincidences). IS there any way it can all be explained? (even if a shadow of doubt remains). Decide on the answer and make the story fit. Personally i like stories that COULD have happened. There's a real possibility for each event. BUT there's a plausible other reading that's very mysterious.

Best,
J.

I know I said I would not be commenting on this story because you already know my complaints. :D

What if you have the story start with a man and another person in a fuzzy place. Like Pure suggested. He tells him/her how he came to be there. Could that be some afterlife? Or a voodoo-space?
You'd have your circle as well then.

Oh well, back to lurking.

:cool:
 
Pure said:
hi phil,

to a degree i can see a set up for the final encounter: if she has borne his child, she goes to his room to be with him (though of course she'd have to find out [know] about his trip before he took it). and the hotel lady, at the young lady's request, make it possible with two beds.As for the girl if she knew it wouldn't be much fate then, would it? I know it is hard to understand the hotel, We are talking Jamaica "A third world country" they do not live by the same rules as much of the rest of the world.
Some laws: you must stop for an animal in the road, but not a human, cause the human knows enough to get out of the way.
: if a female becomes pregnant it is her fault not the fathers. She is responsible not him.
Just all kinds of nifty things in the States we would never allow. For a Hotel person to rent out by the bed, and not the room is more than feasible. Actually quite common.
If you walk into any restaurant and order a steak. I can make a very safe bet you are not getting cow. The don't tell the tourists, cause they don't have to. The major resorts are different. Many of them are owned by US citizens and have laws from the US to play by as well.


one could then postulate that hubby had a clue and follows/finds her there, and... maybe *punishes or kills her (rape and kill is not a common response to an unfaithful wife.)

what the issue, is, is that you're thinking mainly from the writer's pov. what, *in your mind* makes sense of a sequence.

Yet any sequence can be made sense of.

John saw a rabbit.
John's wife let a lover in the door.
The wife's friend Janet, found her cat dead.


Explanation. // John was coming home, and there were lots of rabbits around his country home, whom his wife would leave food for, near the back door. When the lover went in the door, it scared a rabbit who was sniffing at the door for some food. The lover had formerly been seeing Janet, but Janet had become a psychotic stalker. After many attempts to get through, the lover threatened to kill her cat, if she didn't leave him alone, and was forced to carry out his threat.//

One point of mysteries is that the *reader, at least after the fact has, _at least theoretically_ a way of explaining things to his/her satisfaction. And that explanation is anchored to clues, which the reader sometimes noted, but failed to grasp the import, which seems plausible after the fact, and coheres with the story.

In short, you can't be too 'reader unfriendly'. Further the payoff must be proportional to the intrinsic interest of the mystery(ies) generated.
I fully understand the reason or need for some explaining in a few areas. The original intent was to give the reader only what was absolutlely needed to figure out the riddle. The reason the females husband was ommited was fully on the idea that it gave away too many clues. Making the situation more a reality sequence, and less a situation by circumstance.
It is very common for many of the natives to visit Kingston on this particular date. Much like in the USA we have the 4th of July. So in my mind it was a reacurring date that could start the story, carry the story, and end the story.
I guess it is harder than I thought for the reader to see the "Religion/Voodoo" at work. Making coincidences so bizzare to the characters. And still maintaining if it was Voodoo causing all this to happen it was done in a way that it could still be explained to the rational mine even though far fetched.

Since you're explaining, maybe clear up the problem that there's no time for a dream or real encounter (man and young woman), AND were there are dream encounter, there'd be no child, hence no story. AND there's no evidence that the Saturday golf game didn't happen.
That can be done maybe more clearly if there is more about when he first wakes up. I was playing it more just like the movie Ground hog day. Yet I don't have 1hr 45min to repeat until the viewer finally gets it.
Another big inspiration was the movie "The Game". Where you do not understand any of it until the end. The whole movie was a game, allowing the character to feel exactly what his farther felt as he commited suicide. And all the facts were there only if you were looking for them with the right frame of mind. Were you able to duce what and why things were happening.

Do you see why I do not want to come out and say in the begining. "The narrator is a man who is dead. He is recalling a story he dies in the end.
I am also having great difficulty adding who he is for identity. Well really he is Originally the Jamaican, then he is this man visiting from the States, then he is ??? So the narrator is several people taking on the body as a host of sorts. Now how do you give him a character of description? Hence the tittle "Voodoo don't work on you?" It is pre-supposing you don't believe. Thus the story is all about how he did not have to believe. That is one of the big things about Voodou that started the scary thoughts to many. Voodou does not allow for the natives to select who is going to posess the spirit. And in many cases it is not an initiated member at all.

Reminds me a bit of 'groundhog day,' the movie where the same day keeps happening every morning the man wakes up.
I am thinking a helpful point along with some added explaining would be to, as suggested. To end the story with him speaking, allowing a way to sum up the events. Yet making it fully aware he is just starting to tell the story. Making the full conection to more readers.
Again, I'm sure I missed clues and that there's subtleties I remained unaware of.! Hence this dialogue! :)
ok maybe after you read what I reply to dr. m you will see much more of how the story was constructed. Very little of it is placed as filler. Either each sentence supports or it makes another push forward. That would also account for some of the lack in scenery. I often try to skip the lax areas figuring no one really cares what his drink consisted of or how he really obtained it. If that don't move the story forward.
 
Black Tulip said:
I know I said I would not be commenting on this story because you already know my complaints. :D

What if you have the story start with a man and another person in a fuzzy place. Like Pure suggested. He tells him/her how he came to be there. Could that be some afterlife? Or a voodoo-space?
You'd have your circle as well then.

Oh well, back to lurking.

:cool:
;) That idea has been rising higher and higer on the list of things that could make this an easier puzzle for the average reader. Directly tying the foreword in with a after thought might make the reader understand before they start to read whith out a guessing game as to what state of mind they should be thinking in.
Though it does remove the real joke! Being the end is suppose to make the reader realize all along the narrator was dead.

Here we have a reader who does not believe. Reading a tale of a man who does not believe. Then in the end the reality check is the man telling the story is the voodoo, and not by choice. The same man you have trusted to explain why it is not real.

Either way I can see that something needs to be explained better. In the beginning or the end or both. But certainly it needs more notification as to what really went on in the story and how the dead man is the narrator. Too many are missing that.
:) I know you caught it. Maybe even more so than me.;)

Phil
 
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