Grammar problem.

[elib257]

Hi all. I hope you lot can help me with this.

I'm writing a letter for my friend to her shitbag of an employer but I'm having a little grammar problem .

I want to write about their collective intention. I can't work out how to write it - it might just be time for bed... I know it can't be "the party's intentions", but if it can't be that then what is it? "Partie's" or "parties'" or what!? It's driving me to my wit's end...

I hope this makes sense to you, I feel as though I'm rambling a little and thanks in advance.

 

[BeachBum69]

If you're referring to a group of people (a 'party') and their intentions, yes, it would be "party's intentions."

 

[elib257]

It's not so much the group.... It's two separate people who I am referring to as parties i.e. my friend is a party, and the shitbag is a party.

 

[CopyCarver]

It's not so much the group.... It's two separate people who I am referring to as parties i.e. my friend is a party, and the shitbag is a party.

When you're referring to your friend or to the employer individually, party's is correct. When you are referring to both, it is parties'

 

[elib257]

When you're referring to your friend or to the employer individually, party's is correct. When you are referring to both, it is parties'

So I can say 'the parties' intentions are...'? Just checking...

 

[CopyCarver]

So I can say 'the parties' intentions are...'? Just checking...

You sure can, so long as you are referring to both parties.

 

[elib257]

You sure can, so long as you are referring to both parties.

Thankyou so much. I don't know what's up with me tonight...

 

[JamieB]

I'm seeing this late...so sorry

If your friend and the shitbag have intentions that are at odds (and it sounds like they might), I'm wondering if you might actually not want to lump them together and maybe say "each party's intentions."

J

 

[elib257]

If your friend and the shitbag have intentions that are at odds (and it sounds like they might), I'm wondering if you might actually not want to lump them together and maybe say "each party's intentions."

J

It was more like "I'm sure the parties' intentions were that she would be paid for the work she had done and in fact the law states that....". I understand what you're saying though, thankyou.

 

[great lover]

Is this some law related thingy ?

 

[elib257]

Is this some law related thingy ?

Sort of... basically she handed in her notice but the shitbag refused to allow her to work her notice and refused to pay her in lieu. She's dyslexic so I said I'd write the a letter as the first step in formal proceedings just stating what her rights were etc under the Employment Rights Act and what she wanted before she would be getting in contact with solicitor.... But it's been about a year since I've done any sort of law related work and I'm outta practice.

 

[great lover]

Sort of... basically she handed in her notice but the shitbag refused to allow her to work her notice and refused to pay her in lieu. She's dyslexic so I said I'd write the a letter as the first step in formal proceedings just stating what her rights were etc under the Employment Rights Act and what she wanted before she would be getting in contact with solicitor.... But it's been about a year since I've done any sort of law related work and I'm outta practice.

I hope it goes well for her.

 

[naamplao]

Sort of... basically she handed in her notice but the shitbag refused to allow her to work her notice and refused to pay her in lieu. She's dyslexic so I said I'd write the a letter as the first step in formal proceedings just stating what her rights were etc under the Employment Rights Act and what she wanted before she would be getting in contact with solicitor.... But it's been about a year since I've done any sort of law related work and I'm outta practice.

You are writing a letter for your friend...but you are using lawyer's language ... (Party of the first part.....stuff)

Why don't you write it in plain simple language. Something she could have written or said. I doubt it would have less of an impact in a formal hearing.

 

[elib257]

You are writing a letter for your friend...but you are using lawyer's language ... (Party of the first part.....stuff)

Why don't you write it in plain simple language. Something she could have written or said. I doubt it would have less of an impact in a formal hearing.

It's not particularly formal language, it's just not slang. She's very clever and is gave me most of the ideas as to what to put in and how to word it, I just found the legal backup. We'll have to wait a couple of days to see if it worked. I have a feeling that it will, this shitbag thinks that they can treat everybody badly and illegally and get away with it - now they've got my friend to deal with .

 

[CTYankee]

That's not an entirely uncommon practice -- walking someone to the door as soon as they give their notice -- especially in industries dealing with intellectual property.

Once someone has indicated their intention to go elsewhere, does the employer really want to give them continued access to trade secrets and proprietary information? Or give them the time & freedom to collect more such things than they've already done?

Anyone who gives notice in today's employment market should be prepared for this to happen, and then be pleasantly surprised if it does not.

Laws vary across international borders, of course. (As well as from state to state within the US.) In most places here in the US, I don't believe that there's any obligation for the employer to allow the employee to dictate the termination schedule. It's what we call "employment at will". Either party may end the relationship at any time and for any reason (except those specifically prohibited by law).

 

[naamplao]

That's not an entirely uncommon practice -- walking someone to the door as soon as they give their notice -- especially in industries dealing with intellectual property.

I agree...this is also very common in sales too...especially industrial sales. The reason is because the employer does not want the employee badmouthing them and also they fear that the subsequent "sales trips" would be used simply to steal customers from them.

As long as an appropriate severance package, commensurate with that which the laws of the state/province dictates, is paid I don't see a problem with it.

 

[elib257]

In England, s 1 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 states that a 'statement of employment particulars' must be given within two months of the commencement of employment. The document must include, inter alia, the period of notice required by both the employer and the employee. She did not recieve one and this very fact means that her employer has broken the law.

Because there was no agreement upon the period of notice, it is submitted that a resonable period be inserted. In my experience of the working conditions in retail in England, one weeks notice is the reasonable amount for an employee working between 3 and 12 months and as such that is the period requested. It is my belief that under s 11 this is a reasonable period as to which an employment tribunal would agree. If she is unable to work this period of notice through the employer's fault then she shall recieve payment in lieu.

There are other issues to be discussed, such as the lack of itemised pay statements, health and safety regulations, unfair dismissal and sexual and racial harrassment. She would have a claim under any of these headings. The fact remains however, that the letter was less of a legal document and more of a means of scaring a disgusting woman into obeying the law and forcing her employees to obey the law.

Anyway, the question wasn't about law (because I know I'm right) it was about grammar.

 

[naamplao]

Fair enough....

 

[CTYankee]

Fair enough....

Ditto.

Sure wasn't trying to start an argument. Just commenting on something I thought might have been of interest to the *others* who might be following this thread.

*backing away slowly*

 

[Ohiorob]

No one.......except those "familiar" with uk law ......carry any weight.

As an American, I must beg off on this subject.

Best of luck to you and your friend.

Briefly, sounds like your friend might benefit from a sound "legal" opinion.

 

[SweetErika]

No one.......except those "familiar" with uk law ......carry any weight.

As an American, I must beg off on this subject.

Best of luck to you and your friend.

Briefly, sounds like your friend might benefit from a sound "legal" opinion.

It was a grammar question, not a question of law, as Elib said. Anyone who knows proper grammar can put forth the correct usage for the given situation.

And Elib's friend IS receiving a sound legal opinion...from Elib. At least given what I know about Elib's background and the law in general, it seems awfully sound.

 

[elib257]

No one.......except those "familiar" with uk law ......carry any weight.

As an American, I must beg off on this subject.

Best of luck to you and your friend.

Briefly, sounds like your friend might benefit from a sound "legal" opinion.

In England, individuals generally self-present at tribunals and so lawyers will not be contacted until the appeal procedure starts. Having said that, we checked all of our facts with ACAS (an organisation which provides, amongst other things, advice to employees as to their rights and obligations) and they offered pro bono support from a practicing solicitor, which I'm sure she will take up if the case goes any further.

Thankyou Erika,