Googling character's names.

[RetroFan]

It’s been claimed on this forum that you can use existing locations without any issues. In other words, set your ass pirates orgy on the Pirates of the Caribbean ride at Disneyland. But, when it comes to trademarks, I take a less expansive view, mainly embodied in this article:
Using trademarks
I have a lay understanding of fair use and parody of copyright and trademarks, but parody requires a comment on the original. I prefer to not have my orgies be tied to real world owners. Not that I expect to get sued here, but just in my head I prefer to follow the same rules I’d follow elsewhere.

I’ve used a few existing places (or formerly existing) where the usage has been neutral or inline with what those do. Crown Burgers and Bill ‘n Ada’s are actual diners that I use. But my characters tend to do little more than meet there and eat and talk. Bill n’ Ada’s is described as a ‘24 hour dive diner’, but, that’s what it IS. Well, used to be. You hadn’t dined until you’d tried their “brains and eggs.”

But, mostly, I invent brand names and locations, that have parallels for their inspiration, but I try to ensure they differ in a few key characteristics. This allows me to tarnish and defame those businesses as fully as I need or want to. I also find it more fun to invent them, that way I’m not limited by any of their real world characteristics. Thus, when I need a casino/hotel in a Las Vegas in my universe, things get set in the Arista.

Cast your mind back to the halcyon days of the original CSI television series. The visuals showed the real Las Vegas, but somehow casino names weren’t highlighted and all crimes took place in imaginary casinos.

I tend to invent brand names and locations too. For example in one of my stories the main female character is a flight attendant and the airline she works for is a fictional one, I wouldn't use an actual one. Like in the 'On the Job' story competition coming up I wouldn't write a story about staff at a McDonalds having an orgy.

Trademark laws can be very complicated. One good example in Australia is the Movie World theme park on the Gold Coast in Queensland. Visitors to the park can take photographs everywhere of all the buildings, rides, attractions and shows, and the costumed characters who walk around the park. However, photography is strictly forbidden in the gift and merchandise shops where movie and TV memorabilia like film posters, clothing and action figures are sold.

 

[Trionyx]

I generally avoid last names. When needed, I pick very common names (Smith, Jones, etc.) knowing there will be multiple thousands with such a name. For businesses or products, I let my mind wander but I google before using it. I’d hate to get a business somewhere pissed that their name is used in an erotic story.

 

[Lovecraft_Lore]

I generally avoid last names. When needed, I pick very common names (Smith, Jones, etc.) knowing there will be multiple thousands with such a name. For businesses or products, I let my mind wander but I google before using it. I’d hate to get a business somewhere pissed that their name is used in an erotic story.

 

[windar]

When I first read this I thought you meant "Do you google to find a name to use for your characters?" Because I have done that, like in "Captured by Barbary Pirates!" where I needed Moroccan names for the pirates.

But now I see that the question pertains to an after the fact search. I use last names because real people do tend to have them. If someone out there has the same name as one of my characters, which is almost certainly the case, so what? Even if they are the villain, so what? In crime fiction they generally give the perp a first and last name which will likely be shared with one or many real people. Again, so what? Some will say it's all different with erotica. No, it isn't. A good story is a good story, whether it's erotic or not and giving your charactres a complete identity is part of telling a good story.

 

[MrPixel]

Names of businesses I would think would be the bigger problem.

I thank everyone for discussing this issue as it pertains to business names. It dawned on me that I had real places in a story I'm working on at the moment - a specific hotel and a hospital - with depictions of rowdy sexcapades at each. Letting the real names stand could have had consequences, albeit remote.

I still think that people names are inconsequential unless you use a very recognizable and relatively unique celebrity name. Using myself as an example, I have an unusual surname, yet there are at least 70 guys with that name in the US alone, with the same odd spelling. The odds of imagineering a name that doesn't get a hit in an online search are pretty long, unless it is truly screwball (as would go with SciFi or fantasy). That's no guarantee, either, as the trend in the past 20+ years has been corrupted spellings of traditional ("Christian") names. I used to be in the phonebook production business, and depended on regular name spellings as a first-blush filter for bad data. Couldn't do that any more, as completely made-up given names and spellings abound these days.

 

[windar]

It dawned on me that I had real places in a story I'm working on at the moment - a specific hotel and a hospital - with depictions of rowdy sexcapades at each. Letting the real names stand could have had consequences, albeit remote.

One wonders. Couldn't it be thought that the depiction of McDonalds as the site of non-stop orgies might be a boon to their business, rather than a detriment?

 

[MrPixel]

Take it from experience, large corporations have no sense of humor, and the smackdowns come hard and fast for even the slightest implication that they condone "immoral" behavior in their places of business.

 

[SimonDoom]

My own take? People worry way too much at this site. They think there is a risk that someone "out there" is going to be mad about their story and sue them. Almost certainly, it will not happen.

Nobody has a monopoly on names. If you want to name your character "Paris Hilton," go ahead. If you want to write about people having sex at a bathroom at McDonald's, go ahead. If you are worried about consequences flowing from these decisions, you are worrying way, way too much.

Nobody is making money here. It's remotely possible that you could do something that in a purely technical, legal sense might give rise to a legal claim, but there's almost zero chance that a person or corporation would want to take the time and effort to pursue it. And in the extremely remote chance that they did, if you simply took the story down, that would likely resolve things.

 

[SimonDoom]

Question. I don't know the answer to this.

Literotica has been around for over 23 years. Has a Literotica author EVER been sued, or threatened with litigation, or sent a cease and desist letter, for a story posted at Literotica? I have no idea, but in almost 5 1/2 years of participating in this forum I cannot recall a single instance of such an action ever being reported. I know of no evidence it's ever happened. Over half a million stories posted over 23 years, and nobody ever got in trouble for it. That seems like a pretty solid track record of safety to me.

As long as you abide by the site's content rules, and you don't obviously infringe someone's copyright, and you do not defame a real human being, you probably are just fine.

 

[windar]

Question. I don't know the answer to this.

Literotica has been around for over 23 years. Has a Literotica author EVER been sued, or threatened with litigation, or sent a cease and desist letter, for a story posted at Literotica? I have no idea, but in almost 5 1/2 years of participating in this forum I cannot recall a single instance of such an action ever being reported. I know of no evidence it's ever happened. Over half a million stories posted over 23 years, and nobody ever got in trouble for it. That seems like a pretty solid track record of safety to me.

As long as you abide by the site's content rules, and you don't obviously infringe someone's copyright, and you do not defame a real human being, you probably are just fine.

About 15 min after Sarah Palin was nominated for Veep, someone found an actress who looked like her and made a porn flick entitled "Who's Nailin' Palin?". Sarah didn't sue. And that was a commercial venture. By suing or even sending a letter, you immediately give the work more attention than it would get otherwise.

And who would you sue? The author or Lit? Depends on whether Lit is considered a publisher. Good thing Keith D is ignoring me...Lit has deeper pockets (maybe, though one wonders if after 23 years they are still two people running it) and can be found without subpoenaing to try to get the ID of authors who may be using VPNs and such...

 

[gunhilltrain]

It is less of a problem on Lit than it can be with published books. One British author had used an uncommon name for his main female character but a person with that name existed and was furious. The book had to be withdrawn, pulped and another name used.

The book with the now-banned name is five times more valuable as a First Edition than the revised issue.

PS. One well known Western writer used my real but uncommon surname in one of his novels. None of my extended family were concerned. He was the gun-slinging hero...

As I said, almost every name has a real-life counterpart. Who the hell was this woman anyway, the one who got furious? A member of the Royal Family? How did she have so much influence? The publisher should have told her to get lost. I know British libel laws are stricter than American ones, but this is not a case of libel.

 

[TheRedChamber]

My own take? People worry way too much at this site. They think there is a risk that someone "out there" is going to be mad about their story and sue them. Almost certainly, it will not happen.

Nobody has a monopoly on names. If you want to name your character "Paris Hilton," go ahead. If you want to write about people having sex at a bathroom at McDonald's, go ahead. If you are worried about consequences flowing from these decisions, you are worrying way, way too much.

Nobody is making money here. It's remotely possible that you could do something that in a purely technical, legal sense might give rise to a legal claim, but there's almost zero chance that a person or corporation would want to take the time and effort to pursue it. And in the extremely remote chance that they did, if you simply took the story down, that would likely resolve things.

I think the idea of Googling names for me, when I remember to do it, is less about making sure that there's no one in the world with that name, and more about making sure I'm not accidently using a name that would have unfortunate connotations for the readers. If an American writes a story and decides to call their suave sophisticated college professor Peter Kay, then British readers are going to find that hilarious. I read a story recently (can't remember what exactly) that had the main characters' former teacher be called 'Ms Krabappel', but had no indication that the writer or characters knew that this was from the Simpsons (they must have done surely?) and this was very distracting in anotherwise supposedly erotic story. If someone wants to write about a Paris Hilton, I'd put a line it at the beginning where a character says 'Really? Like the famous socialite?' just so the reader knows you know what you're about, but then by all means go crazy.

As I said, almost every name has a real-life counterpart. Who the hell was this woman anyway, the one who got furious? A member of the Royal Family? How did she have so much influence? The publisher should have told her to get lost. I know British libel laws are stricter than American ones, but this is not a case of libel.

I'm not sure which particular author Ogg is referring to. I was interested so I did some quick Googling around. The following articles seem to cover a lot of examples from the US and UK. Basic rule seems to be that a name on its own isn't enough to win a libel case, there need to other conections such as them sharing the same job, physical characteristics or where they live. You can also be sued for a character who has a different name if that character shares enough similiarities with the person sueing especially if it can be shown that you knew them in some capacity. Finally, don't copy the names of any Lords as these are necessarily unique (each generation) and make it a lot easier for them to sue you (plus they are powerful).

 

[SimonDoom]

I think the idea of Googling names for me, when I remember to do it, is less about making sure that there's no one in the world with that name, and more about making sure I'm not accidently using a name that would have unfortunate connotations for the readers. If an American writes a story and decides to call their suave sophisticated college professor Peter Kay, then British readers are going to find that hilarious. I read a story recently (can't remember what exactly) that had the main characters' former teacher be called 'Ms Krabappel', but had no indication that the writer or characters knew that this was from the Simpsons (they must have done surely?) and this was very distracting in anotherwise supposedly erotic story. If someone wants to write about a Paris Hilton, I'd put a line it at the beginning where a character says 'Really? Like the famous socialite?' just so the reader knows you know what you're about, but then by all means go crazy.

I'm not sure which particular author Ogg is referring to. I was interested so I did some quick Googling around. The following articles seem to cover a lot of examples from the US and UK. Basic rule seems to be that a name on its own isn't enough to win a libel case, there need to other conections such as them sharing the same job, physical characteristics or where they live. You can also be sued for a character who has a different name if that character shares enough similiarities with the person sueing especially if it can be shown that you knew them in some capacity. Finally, don't copy the names of any Lords as these are necessarily unique (each generation) and make it a lot easier for them to sue you (plus they are powerful).

Good points. I have yet to write a story set in Britain, so the issue has not arisen.

 

[gunhilltrain]

It’s been claimed on this forum that you can use existing locations without any issues. In other words, set your ass pirates orgy on the Pirates of the Caribbean ride at Disneyland. But, when it comes to trademarks, I take a less expansive view, mainly embodied in this article:
Using trademarks
I have a lay understanding of fair use and parody of copyright and trademarks, but parody requires a comment on the original. I prefer to not have my orgies be tied to real world owners. Not that I expect to get sued here, but just in my head I prefer to follow the same rules I’d follow elsewhere.

I’ve used a few existing places (or formerly existing) where the usage has been neutral or inline with what those do. Crown Burgers and Bill ‘n Ada’s are actual diners that I use. But my characters tend to do little more than meet there and eat and talk. Bill n’ Ada’s is described as a ‘24 hour dive diner’, but, that’s what it IS. Well, used to be. You hadn’t dined until you’d tried their “brains and eggs.”

But, mostly, I invent brand names and locations, that have parallels for their inspiration, but I try to ensure they differ in a few key characteristics. This allows me to tarnish and defame those businesses as fully as I need or want to. I also find it more fun to invent them, that way I’m not limited by any of their real world characteristics. Thus, when I need a casino/hotel in a Las Vegas in my universe, things get set in the Arista.

Cast your mind back to the halcyon days of the original CSI television series. The visuals showed the real Las Vegas, but somehow casino names weren’t highlighted and all crimes took place in imaginary casinos.

John Updike wrote a short story called A&P which had a rather unflattering portrait of the management of one of their stores. That was in 1962 when it was still a significant player in the supermarket business. As far as I know, he was never challenged about it.

I have a character who worked at Burger King once. In some stories on another site (and one on Lit) she complains about the place and she also has a weird fantasy occurring in her branch. If Burger King or their parent company (Restaurants Brands International) don't like it, they can come and get me assuming they could even find me.

Disney is about the only company I might worry about because they tend to be extremely touchy regarding their image.

 

[Voboy]

Inventing names is one of my favorite aspects of what we all do here. I'm ashamed to admit that part of the reason I persist with my SF series is because I love inventing the names there. I had as much fun researching Saxon or Roman names for other stories.

I string together syllables that sound good to my ear/eye, typically, or I try to make a discordant name if there's a reason to make the readers feel some sort of discomfort. But I don't Google them.