Good News Male Catholic Prostitutes!

[3113]

Pope Benedict said that condoms are not a moral solution. But he said in some cases, such as for male prostitutes, they could be justified "in the intention of reducing the risk of infection."

Full story here.

Of course, you male Catholic prostitutes are still committing a sin by being a prostitute, especially if you're having sex with other men. But at least your conscience can rest easy on the condom question.

 

[Quiet_Cool]

Full story here.

Of course, you male Catholic prostitutes are still committing a sin by being a prostitute, especially if you're having sex with other men. But at least your conscience can rest easy on the condom question.

Hey, one down, two to go...

Q_C

 

[Bebeslut]

Like, it's still sinful for a john to use a condom with a woman prostitute?

 

[Huckleman2000]

Like, it's still sinful for a john to use a condom with a woman prostitute?

True, actually.

The justification for allowing them for HIV-positive male prostitutes is: first, there is no chance of procreation, so it's not birth-control; and second, using a condom could be the act of conscience that leads them to turn from their lifestyle. And become priests, presumably.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

You have to kind of admire such amazingly twisted logic, in a puzzled, head-scratching kind of way . . .

 

[Bebeslut]

You have to kind of admire such amazingly twisted logic, in a puzzled, head-scratching kind of way . . .

No, I don't.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I wonder if the pope is referring to male prostitutes who service men or those who service women. Or both.

 

[3113]

The justification for allowing them for HIV-positive male prostitutes is: first, there is no chance of procreation, so it's not birth-control; and second, using a condom could be the act of conscience

You have to kind of admire such amazingly twisted logic, in a puzzled, head-scratching kind of way . . .

Actually, I think Huckleman got it to make sense kinda sorta. Of course, if the male prostitute is a good Catholic who follows what the Pope says, then he doesn't need the condom because he isn't a male prostitute...if, on the other hand, he's not a good Catholic and, thus, is a male prostitute, he probably doesn't care what the Pope thinks about condoms....



Okay. I'm back to being confused. I guess this is for Catholic male prostitutes who have guilt issues about not doing what the Pope says?

 

[3113]

I wonder if the pope is referring to male prostitutes who service men or those who service women. Or both.

I suspect that the Pope doesn't think women ever have to pay for sex (meaning all male prostitutes, in his mind, are gay) or that women paying for sex with a male prostitute are past child bearing age so the use of a condom wouldn't interfere with pro-creation....

Which raises the question...does the church forbid men making love to women past child bearing age to use condoms? If so...why?

 

[Huckleman2000]

I suspect that the Pope doesn't think women ever have to pay for sex (meaning all male prostitutes, in his mind, are gay) or that women paying for sex with a male prostitute are past child bearing age so the use of a condom wouldn't interfere with pro-creation....

Which raises the question...does the church forbid men making love to women past child bearing age to use condoms? If so...why?

Yeah, this gets into some pretty arcane nonsense.

Of course, condoms shouldn't be needed for post-menopausal sex, because it's only with your one wife who has also been faithful since the wedding day. Once you start deviating from any of that, you're sorta screwed. It becomes the guilt on which you base your subservience.

 

[Guest]

*deleted*

 

[Quiet_Cool]

I think I'll just go back to agreeing with the twisted logic bit.

They've painted themselves into a religious corner.

The problem is the "they" in that situation. "They" are a long line of religious leaders who all have to deal with the decisions of the past without contradicting them, while making statements and decisions now. Basically, religious in nature or not, it's politics, but without the option of openly disagreeing with your predecessors for the sake of representing a united front for the religion they represent.

Q_C

 

[3113]

Of course, condoms shouldn't be needed for post-menopausal sex, because it's only with your one wife who has also been faithful since the wedding day.

What if faithful non-child-bearing wife just wants to keep things neat and clean from now on? Of course, according to the Bible, women of any age can miraculously have kids--look at Sarah.

But what if the woman had a hysterectomy? (Can devout Catholic woman have that operation?)

 

[Boxlicker101]

What if faithful non-child-bearing wife just wants to keep things neat and clean from now on? Of course, according to the Bible, women of any age can miraculously have kids--look at Sarah.

But what if the woman had a hysterectomy? (Can devout Catholic woman have that operation?)

Of course, but only if it is a medical necessity. Tying off their fallopian tubes would probably be another matter.

 

[Pure]

Questions.

OK, you guys, can a MTF cross-dressing prostitute have a vasectomy if he's going to service pre-op FTM candidates for the priesthood?

Seriously. If the headline said "Iranians free French journalist," you'd be posting. "Good news if you're French!"

Consider that some retrograde, even fascist entities SOMETIMES show a tiny sign of liberalization, and that surely this is to be applauded, esp in legal [and dogma] related contexts where precedents are honored.

Again, if the headline said, "Nigerian authorities release 16-year old adulteress" will one of you be posting, "That's fine news for women *if you're 16!*".

In closing, I'd pose you another riddle: If a secretly transitioning MTF former priest residing in Vatican City, perishes during the radical penectomy in an Italian protestant hospital, would his appendage be interrable along with his body, in a Vatican cemetery?"

 

[Huckleman2000]

[...]
In closing, I'd pose you another riddle: If a secretly transitioning MTF former priest residing in Vatican City, perishes during the radical penectomy in an Italian protestant hospital, would his appendage be interrable along with his body, in a Vatican cemetery?"

If you had been around when they were arguing about angels dancing on pins, we would have a much spicier language.

 

[3113]

Seriously. If the headline said "Iranians free French journalist," you'd be posting. "Good news if you're French!"

Excuuuuuse me! Apples and Oranges! The Pope said, specifically, that condoms could be used ONLY in some very select cases! That is equal to the Iranians saying, "We'll only free Gallic journalists" in which case, it WOULD be apt for us to say, "good news if you're French!"

If Iranians free a French journalist just because, there might be hope for all. But the Pope didn't say there's hope for all in this. He specifically said that the condoms were only for very particular things--like preventing HIV among male prostitutes. He did not say condoms could be used to prevent HIV period, whether one is having sex with prostitutes of either sex or girlfriends.

I say to you, it's not the same as the "french journalist" example. It was meant to be specific and it is.

 

[Handley_Page]

If you had been around when they were arguing about angels dancing on pins, we would have a much spicier language.

Tennessee Monkey Trial ?

[ it made a damn good film ! ]

 

[Pure]

note to 3113,

thanks for your response.

Originally Posted by Pure
Seriously. If the headline said "Iranians free French journalist," you'd be posting. "Good news if you're French!"

3113 Excuuuuuse me! Apples and Oranges! The Pope said, specifically, that condoms could be used ONLY in some very select cases! That is equal to the Iranians saying, "We'll only free Gallic journalists" in which case, it WOULD be apt for us to say, "good news if you're French!"

If Iranians free a French journalist just because, there might be hope for all. But the Pope didn't say there's hope for all in this. He specifically said that the condoms were only for very particular things--like preventing HIV among male prostitutes. He did not say condoms could be used to prevent HIV period, whether one is having sex with prostitutes of either sex or girlfriends.I say to you, it's not the same as the "french journalist" example. It was meant to be specific and it is.



====
It was possible, though not plausible to read Benedict's statement as highly circumscribed; this reading, of course, fits what i described as ill-founded dismissal of what may be a sign of progress, in a very conservative entity (as evidenced in the thread's title).

The Vatican today clarified the scope, and indeed the Pope was saying you're taking a step towards being moral, overall, if you consider how not to get you partner sick, regardless of his/her sex or circumstances.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/23/vatican-condoms-for-hiv-p_n_787629.html

In the book, "Light of the World: The Pope, the Church and the Signs of the Times," Benedict was quoted as saying that condom use by people such as male prostitutes indicated they were moving toward a more moral and responsible sexuality by aiming to protect their partner from a deadly infection.

His comments implied that he was referring primarily to homosexual sex, when condoms aren't being used as a form of contraception.

However, questions arose immediately about the pope's intent because the Italian translation of the book used the feminine for prostitute, whereas the original German used the masculine.
The Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, told reporters Tuesday that he asked the pope whether he intended his comments to apply only to men. Benedict replied that it really didn't matter, the important thing was that the person took into consideration the life of another.

"I personally asked the pope if there was a serious, important problem in the choice of the masculine over the feminine," Lombardi said. "He told me no. The problem is this: ... It's the first step of taking responsibility, of taking into consideration the risk of the life of another with whom you have a relationship."

"This is if you're a man, a woman, or a transsexual. ... The point is it's a first step of taking responsibility, of avoiding passing a grave risk onto another," Lombardi said.

Those comments concluded the press conference, and Lombardi took no further questions about how broadly this interpretation could be applied. [unquote]

 

[oggbashan]

The Vatican's explanation, as given in Pure's post above, is a major shift in Catholic policy and should be welcome to many Catholics who have found it difficult to obey the previous rulings.

I think more explanations and expansions will follow about protection from HIV and AIDS even if the Roman Catholic Church does not change its attitude to birth control.

Og

 

[JackLuis]

Good news for Women!

Pope: women, as well as men, can use condoms

How's that, sexual equality, from the Vatican!

 

[3113]

How's that, sexual equality, from the Vatican!

Well. Okay then. Female Catholic prostitutes can rest easy tonight.

 

[JackLuis]

Well. Okay then. Female Catholic prostitutes can rest easy tonight.

They are breathing easier in Tijuana tonight!