Goddess of Winter - Dec. 14, 2001

[Mickie]

Hi, All! Due to lack of participation from the nominees who are before me and haven't had their discussion yet -- I'm up!

Now, just to forestall any complaints, please, if I've made a mistake and not seen that someone has participated, that someone needs to pm me. I'm only human and that first page of nominations is a mess with all the postings I switched over from the first thread. I'll fit you in if that happened, asap.

So, on with the information --

Story name -- Goddess of Winter
by-- Mickie

Category -- non-human

link -- http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=10408

What I'd like to know is if the characters are believable, if the setting gives the haunting quality I wanted it to have, and if anyone gets a shiver out of it.

I know there are passive sentences galore. It's going to undergo a re-write within the next month, so you might even see your suggestions implimented when I re-post it.

And, my largest concern is the quickness of the ending. Does it wind up too fast, or is it in my imagination that it does?

Any other comments are also welcome, and appreciated, and all that.

So, on with the discussion!

Mickie

 

[REDWAVE]

Ice Queen

My first reaction is this is very well-written and well-crafted. You obviously put time and effort into it that a lot of Lit. writers don't. The characters are believable, or at least the male character is. The "goddess" is such a fantasy and abstraction to begin with that it's hard to say what's believable. I've never had sex with a goddess (or a god), just with real, flesh and blood people. The ending ties the story up neatly, and is foreshadowed by the line about "enjoy me while you can."

But the larger question here is, what are you trying to do with this? What are you trying to say? Insofar as there's a message here at all (as opposed to just an entertaining story), it seems to be "Don't try to fuck a goddess." It reminds me of one of the many stories about Cleopatra-- that occasionally she would let a commoner who tickled her fancy have her for a night. But of course, there was a catch-- as soon as the sun rose the next morning, she had him executed. Well, at least he died with a smile on his face, I guess. It also can be viewed as playing up to the male chauvinist conception of the Woman as the source of darkness and evil in the world, and men as the victims of women-- which is largely an inversion of reality.

Mechanics are overall very good, except I noted one spot where you fell into the "to/too" syndrome.

 

[mudlnthru]

Winter goddess

Good story, Mickie. I enjoyed your approach to the subject and the character development. The opening paragraph is a little tough to read. Had to go through it a couple of times in order understand it completely. Rather than drawing me into it, I was a bit confused.

After that, though, the characters did develop very well. You get the sense of loneliness and isolation and do a good job with the imagery of the Ice Queen. Lots left to the imagination, but lots of guidance along the way.

 

[Mickie]

Thanks Redwave and Mudlinthru!

Redwave, you bring up a point I hadn't thought about. This story was written in two separate evenings, and I didn't have a clue where I was going with it until the second night. (They were months apart, actually.) There is no coherent theme to it, and there should be if I want this to read rounded and complete. I will go through the theme development process before I do the re-write.

The man always struck me as childlike in a lot of aspects. I was thinking of the old story about the Ice Queen, and the boy she steals away by putting a splinter of ice in his eye. I wanted to keep the childlike fantasy situation, but still make him adult. Did it read that way, or does it just confuse?

The Goddess. If there was such a thing, is she close to a concept you might have of a Winter Goddess? I liked the comparison with Cleo, Redwave. But the largest difference is that she feels compassion for her victim, I think. This is not something she chooses to do, but something she must do. And that DOES need to be brought out in the re-write. WHY she must do it.

Yup, there are several grammar goofs in it that I've found since it posted. That's what you get when you do your own editing, and post too soon after finishing it. I should have waited to post, after I'd had time to mull over it a little more. It will be re-posted when I finish the re-write, and I'm hoping all the little problems will be fixed.

Mudlinthru -- You're right, the opening needs a bit of cleaning and tightening, perhaps more of a hook effect.

I did try to make the whole thing haunting, and yet vivid rather than shadowy. I started with an image of a woman in the woods, clothed in that ermine cape. Sort of a dreamscape. As usual, I think the female character needs some work, but the basics are there.

So, to sum up thus far -- I need to work on the theme development and on the Goddess character.

Thanks!

Mickie

 

[P. B. Walker]

I just wanted to point out that KillerMuffin brought this same story up for review in the Story/Poem Feedback Forum. I believe the name of the thread is something like "Challenge for writers" or something close to that.

- PBW

 

[Whispersecret]

Hello. Although I've read most of the critiques in this forum, this marks my first post as a critiquer, if that's a word.

Overall, I think this piece is beautifully written. The rich language hums for me. The outside weather growing more violent in tandem with their actions is a nice touch. You describe her warming process thoroughly and with a fine choice of word.

My general feeling from the piece was similar to what I feel when I listen to music in a minor key. I felt like his death was a waste and needless.

It didn't feel like an abrupt ending to me.

Here are some random comments:

His dick gave a small jump of welcome, like an over-excited puppy waiting for its master.

Nice.

That was the first time he saw her. There were to be many more before he lost his mind.

These two sentences promise a lot and whetted my appetite to see this insanity develop, but you don't quite come through for me. The change from sane to insane wasn't clear to me.

No, he thought when the stars again wheeled above his home, the smoke from the chimney striving to reach them only to shred in the cold, high wind; no, she is not a pagan goddess. She is a human being and she can be seduced just as easily as any other woman. Her body is flesh, and can be manipulated; can be urged into heat, thus melting the icy goddess of his imaginings. And so, he set out to capture her.

This paragraph confused me. First, the amount of time that has passed is a day? So that same night he is thinking about her? It's beautiful language, but unclear.

Also, I failed to see the jump in his logic. There's quite a difference between labelling her a human woman, and therefore able to be seduced, and deciding to capture and rape her. There's not enough of a progression in his thought process for me to understand how his desire, mostly passive up until now, seems to skip a step from merely active to violently aggressive.

Why does he need to rape her? Why doesn't he just try to seduce her in the regular way?

wringing him dry--bit of a cliche phrase.

It was an old-fashioned bedroom. The four-poster bed was adorned with a thick blue quilt that had been made by his grandmother during the last years of her life. The bureau was tall, a small round mirror crowning it in the corner of the room. All of it was far too familiar. The "Was Police" need to attack this paragraph.

like a schoolboy caught masturbating This is a good simile, but seems strange in this story only because he WAS seen masturbating.

She was the Ice Queen, and she had placed a splinter in his eye. He would follow her anywhere, do anything she asked, no matter how cruel or petty.

I don't FEEL this is true. I don't see his desperate devotion. I feel more of a distant, unfeeling physical reaction. It doesn't feel urgent enough for me to believe she has this ultimate type of power over his actions.

This might just be a personal thing, but you seem to have a lot of gerunds. Perhaps that's your style, but it's something that jumps out at me as I read it.

Winter disengaged, tears running down her cheeks at the sacrifice he had made.

I don't see what he made as a sacrifice, only because he had no idea he was making it. Perhaps if you added the word "unwitting" or something like that.

His handsome face was frozen in a rictus of pleasure-pain, his body arched upward, the proud dimensions of his erection shining in the dim light.

Love this part. Perhaps you might say "had frozen" though. Just to get rid of one more WAS.

Overall, I liked this story a lot, but felt that his characterization lacked some development. I didn't need as much with her, because she's a foreign entity, so if she acts strangely, I can better accept it. But he's a human man which means you have to work harder for me to accept his actions when his motivation hasn't been clearly established.

 

[REDWAVE]

Rape a goddess?

No, Mickie, the childlike/adult thing doesn't work for me at all. I really don't have much of a conception of a Winter Goddess. (I have a strong conception of the Greek goddess Athena, but she's totally different.) In fact, now that I think about it some more, I think her character needs more development. And one thing Whispersecret mentioned did strike me as making no sense-- him thinking of trying to rape her, even though he considered her a goddess-- or did he at that point? It's not really clear-- not to me, at least. But how could a mere mortal think he could possibly rape a goddess? I think you need to rework that bit.

 

[Whispersecret]

Oh, one more thing...I think the title needs a little work, Mick.

 

[Mickie]

PBW -- Thanks for the heads up. I don't spend very much time on the Feedback forum. Seems that the main prob listed in the answers there is all about the characterization, not the style or the story.

Whisper -- Thanks for the in depth crit on the story! All of your points are quite valid and are worth consideration in the re-write. I'll be printing off this entire topic and using it as reference. Just one note -- I'm learning the gerunds and passive sometimes go hand in hand. Both of them are problem areas for me. Too much, and the words get lost in the language. But, again, the problem area of this particular story seems to be the characters. Definitely need to do some work on them. Title needs work? Hum. Who knows what will happen when I finish the next draft.

Redwave -- Apparently the child/adult thing lacked uniformity and cohesiveness. Again, this has to do with my own lack of thought about the characters when I began writing. I do have some ideas on how to improve this, and thanks for clarifying.

The point where the story loses part of its impact is when he decides to rape her. I think it's because it's so out-of-character for the protagonist I started with. He changed in the middle, mainly because I wrote the first part so long before the second. It's not a question of taking out the offending decision; it's developing the character into a consistent personality that is either capable of this act or thought, or cutting it.

As usual with one of my first drafts, this needs considerable fleshing out to make it as good as I can make it. I have the basics already, but they need to have the backbone of characterization to hold up the actual events. This way, it's kind of poignant and strange. When I'm finished, I'm hoping it will be a strong, poignant, haunting story that will stick with the reader long after they read it.

Thanks for helping me figure out where to focus to acheive that.

Mickie

 

[ladylust]

Mick ends up with a good yarn and seems to get his feet under him in the second part, where the vocab., tone, and subject generally seem to fit. There are throughout some very nice sentences, as has been said, " a pale length of thigh as she turned to make her way back through the leafless trees" Haunting, yes, but in the early part marred by drastic changes of tone, "his dick was hard... like a battering ram" and of course the "swollen head"--now this Hustler, not mythic mode. There are gross inconsistencies like 'rhythm of self gratification' and 'beating his meat.' A bit like writing, 'Her tresses shimmered in the half light of the moon, but her face was a disaster and she was definitely un-cool.'

Mick's piece, in the first part is purple and overwritten, "cold sparkle of her gray eyes through the frosted window," "smooth skin of his broad shoulders was winter pale." The adjective police are needed here.

His rape plan is a in the Hustler mode. but how old is this 'boy'. 15, 18? M says he has a 'usual seduction routine'. and is into bondage with scarves!! Sounds like a sophomore in univ. I'd suggest keeping him young.

The 'boy's' talk in tone, is also inconsistent , "do you live around here?" A bit like saying, "He stood trembling before the ravishing goddess, 'How about those Knicks?' he said.'

The second half picks up steam and draws in the reader. She's a goddess who will destroy as she makes love, and we want to see how. Still there are inconsistencies, occasionally: "the grip of her sex searing him" and "last thick spurt oozing from his cock"-- again a lapse into Hustler pornspeak.

The last part succeeds, Mick. It's generally well done. A bit over the top, in my opinion, since we have, pussy eat, cock suck cum swallow and two fucks. This raises the issue what you're trying to do, draw the horny reader along the routine pornographic sequence, or capture that haunting sense of romance, sadness, loss, and death that is often apparent in the last part, and somewhat there in the first. Upon re-write, I think it will turn out well.

 

[Jocund Day]

Opening/Setting:
The male character's backyard is just too mundane a setting for what strikes me as an American Gothic personification of winter. Nathaniel Hawthorne's backyard would do; Jo Boxer's backyard will not. Would any functioning person actually offer the embodied spirit of winter a "mug" of coffee? The workaday semantics of hearth and home just don't mix well with the language of phantasmagorical allegory. You might consider a drastic change of scene in your planned rewrite. Say, 1801 instead of 2001, and nothing that emanates from your spirit's mouth should ever give us cause to envision her as anything other than pissing-ourselves supernatural. Think Dickens, think Melville, think Poe.
Language:
Needs some work. There are wonderful turns of phrase and terrible affronts to the Queen's English. More of the latter, I'm afraid. I had gotten to paragraph #57 when the heart required to post my little list of "suggestions" left me. I urge you to consider that the action of the story is more important to the reader than the language one employs to convey that action. Most of us care not a fig whether "gentling" is a word or not (it is, unfortunately). It comes as a rather unpleasant surprise to those of us who have spent our youth acquiring a vocabulary of depth and precision that the free application of that vocabulary marks us immediately as a novice, particularly when applied inconsistently. The right word, I contend, is the word that produces the least drag, the word that flows through the reader's mind like shit through a goose, the simplest, most familiar, least exotic, common, word.
Theme:
Shame vs. Desire, capital S, capital D, *is* your theme. Not winter, not heat, not death, not even the friggin' coffee pot. Stephen King writes in "On Writing" that the second draft is the artist's opportunity to look again at the work and figure out what it all means and why. "Rape" is a powerful word, and one shouldn't burden one's readers with its grave connotations without a commensurate payoff in the end. We'll do the work, if you will.
Highlights:
"the darker ice of her eyes"
"a soft triangle of gold-white down, late sunlight on snow. Her belly was softly rounded, curved in a woman's mystery"
"a sound like the winter breezes flowing through leafless limbs"
"The hard length of his cock kicked within her"

"The muscles in his arms trembled as he lowered himself over her prone body.
Her breasts were no longer cool, but heated, warm as if she had become a true
human woman with his offering. The wind outside howled in fury that it could
not penetrate the window. Hard pellets of snow scattered on the sill,
stubbornly insisting that there must be a way in."

"Arching, feeling as if he was cracking a sheen of ice covering his spine, he
moved into her, pushed the aching hard coldness into her heat. Unable to move
his hands, he kept them by his side, using them to lever his aching body
upward. She descended, moving with an ever increasing fervor. Her hair
whipped about her face, her hands branding his shoulders, the grip of her sex
searing him, hurting, adding pain to pleasure until he opened his lips in a
scream.

The sound cracked out into the deadened air around him, the smell of snow and
wind strong in the room. She still rode him, moving steadily on a shaft that had
stiffened and swelled to its limit. He came again, the scream still resounding off
the thick walls, arched upward, his spine frozen at the last instant. Another
offering poured forth, the last thick spurt oozing from his cock into the heated
chamber of her sex."

JD______________________________________________

 

[Mickie]

Some definite food for thought here.

Ladylust -- The change in tone, from the romantic to the pornographic, is the difference in his mind when he thinks of the goddess’s body and his own body. I do need to clarify that in the re-write, and make it more consistent. His thoughts of her contain the romantic euphimisms for sex and body parts, refering to her pussy as her sex, her tits as breasts. His own body is pornographic. His cock, his dick, and it’s more graphic, less romantic. I’ll work on it.

I’ve been accused of ‘overwriting’ before. Yes, I agree that the adjectives need to be trimmed, but not completely pulled out. Balance. And I’ve overbalanced it to the descriptive side.

I’m changing his character completely. It’s far too inconsistent and seems to be the worst problem here. I never thought about how old he was when I was writing, and basically didn’t work out the character. It’s time to do so. Just as a note, though -- when you’re nervous, don’t you start talking about the most inconsequential things just to make a noise, get the ball rolling, move past the awkward beginning?

The second half was written months later, and I think I had an older character in mind here. Thus a lot of the problems with inconsistencies between the two.

Thanks, Ladylust. You’re insight is appreciated.

Jocund Day -- I disagree about the setting. Sorry. I just have to. Of course the supernatural can occur today, in the past, or even in the future. However, his place in the woods, with no obvious means of earning his cash, or even an idea of who he really is affected even the setting. The setting has to blend with the character, not merely be a vehicle for the plot. The language of phantasmagorical allegory does work well with hearth and home, if it’s done right. I do thank you for mentioning this, because I think I need to work on that blending of character and setting, make it a home instead of a cardboard shelter.

Language -- Yes, Ladylust was right. There’s a preponderance of adjectives that need to be weeded. It’s like an overgrown garden, with too many flowers and not enough greenery. Must prune the flowers in order to give it a more classic look. However, I do like extra flowers, so the style probably won’t be to your liking even after I’ve finished pruning. As the author, it’s up to me what kinds of changes I make, and this is one of those things that I know is a problem with me, but I still would rather write the kind of thing I like to read. I like new words, strange words, and so they end up in my writing. I do try to keep from forcing the reader to use a dictionary, but I toss in an exotic word here and there.

Theme -- Shame vs Desire? I don’t think he’s ashamed of his desire for the Goddess. But again, I think this is a problem that stems from the lack of characterization in the protagonist. I read ‘On Writing’. Liked it, thought it was very informative. However, King isn’t God, and some of his thoughts are very journalistic. Yes, less is more, but absense is boring. I’m not about to write this without descriptive words, although yes, they need to be pruned down. As for using this draft (and yes, this will be the second draft. I made the same mistake most writers on this site make, I wrote, spellchecked, and posted) as the place to pull the story together, I do agree with that. I should have done it before I started writing, though. It would make the third draft, the one where I prune everything to its basic components, merely the second draft. Less work on my part.

I’ll be discovering the theme as I think on the character. I think a scene needs to be added to the first part, and some restructuring of his decision processes is a definite change that needs to be made. There’s more information to him that needs to be used in the set up, and it concerns why he’s living alone in the woods, and what his life is like before the advent of the goddess. Basically, a rounding of the character will put the setting into perspective, and make the goddess’ visit inevitable in his life.

And I’m giving her a purpose for what she does, rounding her out a bit as well. She has a history, and it will be shown in the re-write.

I thank you for the highlights list, JD. It’s a tool I’ll use to see what actually works in my over-abundant style. And, yes, I’ll be re-reading Poe. His writing is in a style I’ve admired since childhood, and I thank you for pointing him out to me again.

So, to sum this up so far -- the things I need to work on in the order of importance: Characterization. I need to figure out who they are in completion so I can go on with the rest of the problem areas. Theme. Look beyond the obvious and find something hidden within the character instead of within the events. Setting. Work on blending the setting and the character so it doesn’t jar the reader out of the supernatural effect of the goddess’ appearance. Plot. If the rape idea doesn’t fit, then don’t use it. Go through the character’s decision making process to determine if it will fit with his more complete personality.

Things I’m learning through this discussion: Vision isn’t enough to complete the process of storytelling. An angle is needed, and not just describing events through the eyes of a character, but describing the events through the perceptions of the character. Inner dialogue must be consistent with the character’s personality in order to suspend the beliefs of the reader. And to top it all off, I need to employ someone to slap my hand whenever I use an adjective.

KM has a thread up on the author boards about the arrogance of the writer. I’ll tell you, to have well thought critiques of your own work is humbling. It’s good for a soul that gets mostly fluff ‘I LOVED your story. I creamed my jeans three times. Keep writing.’ kind of feedback.

THIS is the kind of feedback I’ve been needing. Yes, it does take me a minute to get beyond the defensive crap most authors feel when they get negative comments, but it’s also inspirational. When I think about the problem areas, I don’t want to give in to defending what I’ve done, but find solutions that will enhance the story. This is why I put these stories up on this site in the first place.

As a result, the re-write will be finished over the holiday break, and I’m hoping to post it sometime immediately following the new year. I want to thank all of you for the time and effort it’s taken to read and think about my writing. Each post has something new to say and valuable insight from a different perspective.

Mickie

 

[ladylust]

QUOTEThe mysterious woman occupied his thoughts more and more. His routine changed, became centered around his morning viewing. One morning, he left his robe on the chair and stood in front of his window to wait for her. His dick was hard, pointing toward the wall like a battering ram
====

But Mickie, if the porn phrases are those in his mind, the reader is not given any clue about this. In the passage above, it's clear that a narrator *outside* the boy is statíng the first three sentences.

If some sentences represent his thoughts, and it seems you want that often to be the case, there should be some clue, no?
Especially since the story starts *outside*. IF the whole thing was interior 'There she was, standing at the edge of the forest. Would she stay? I'm longing to talk to her and my dick is hard like a battering ram.' you could get away with ambiguity a bit.
But clearly it's often a narrator who is outside, as shown in the term 'would' 'he would..' meaning his habit, as observed.

 

[karmadog]

late again

This one is a beaut. I truly enjoyed this story, but, of course, I have a few problems.

This is mostly beautifully written, but I think the pornographic phrases should go. "Really beating his meat." ??? For me that was a mood wrecker.

I liked the idea of the story, but have you considered not having her speak at all? I think it might add to the eerieness of the mood.

What if he was married and she never appeared when his wife was around? He could decide to seduce her when his wife was away. I think it might be better to have him found rather than ending the story with Winter standing over him. Having a more ambiguous ending to the sex scene would also heighten the mystery. Is he crazy? Was she really the embodiment of winter? Then a wrap up with his wife finding him blue and cold in the marriage bed...

I didn't think that his bedroom was well conceived. A four-poster feels warm to me, but the blue rugs are cold. Was that intentional? Don't really follow the logic if it was. Perhaps the bed could be wrought iron.

Personally, I would like a little more sensual description. What does winter taste like? Smell like? Was her sex cold? It seems that the personification of winter would not be defined as simply having cool butt cheeks. Perhaps he might feel how cold she is and feel sympathy and try to warm her and then they could have sex. That might heighten the irony of his death.

Overall, I believe that this is a truly excellent story. One of the best I have seen on Lit.

Thanks for submitting it.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I read this a few times, was gone for a bit, and read it again.

I have a few problems with it.

Mostly it was with the characters. She wanted to make love with him? For the life of my I couldn't figure out why. His character was pretty understandable, hers was out there somewhere. She came to his place, dunno why. She wanted to have sex with him, dunno why. Either I missed it completely or I'm confused. What motivates your character to do what she did?

That and authorisms. Tsk tsk. They're such fun, though, aren't they?