Globalization, in light of one basic inconsistency

[Le Jacquelope]

Does anyone consider it unfair or odd that goods and jobs can move around the world, nearly infinitely easier than the people who might pursue them?

Is this how globalism is supposed to work?

 

[rgraham666]

Does anyone consider it unfair or odd that goods and jobs can move around the world, nearly infinitely easier than the people who might pursue them?

Is this how globalism is supposed to work?

Yes. That is how it's supposed to work. At least to the people who advocate.

But they don't believe they'll ever lose their power or jobs under the system, so they don't care.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Define "fair."

If person A is ready, willing and able to get job X done for a dollar less than person B in another place, is it fair to dicriminate against him on the basis of where he lives? Is it fair to force a consumer to pay more so that person B can have the job?

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Define "fair."

If person A is ready, willing and able to get job X done for a dollar less than person B in another place, is it fair to dicriminate against him on the basis of where he lives? Is it fair to force a consumer to pay more so that person B can have the job?

Is it fair to send a job where person A cannot follow it?

That part was left out.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

For that matter

is it fair for the consumer that a company has to pay a factory worker any wage at all... when the consumer wants it for free?

Oh wait, that's why they're in China... prisoner slave labor, and all that. Pity all Chinese citizens can't be forced to work for free. That would only be fair - to corporations, that is.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Is it fair to send a job where person A cannot follow it?

That part was left out.

What do you mean, "send a job?"

A "job" is not some isolated, free-floating fact of reality. What you mean by it is a task that needs doing because some individual or group has saved up some money (or borrowed some that someone else saved), used it to build or buy a machine or an idea, and is willing to pay some other person to work the machine or the idea. You speak as if the task came first, and is the "property" of some individual who has a "right" to it.

So the correct question is, can you force that individual or group of investors to invest their money in place X rather than place Y, where they would receive a greater reward for their (or the lenders) deferred consumption, and their willingness to gamble that enough people will be willing to pay for the thing they want to create.

The answer to that question is: No can't force people to do that thing.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

What do you mean, "send a job?"

A "job" is not some isolated, free-floating fact of reality. What you mean by it is a task that needs doing because some individual or group has saved up some money (or borrowed some that someone else saved), used it to build or buy a machine or an idea, and is willing to pay some other person to work the machine or the idea. You speak as if the task came first, and is the "property" of some individual who has a "right" to it.

So the correct question is, can you force that individual or group of investors to invest their money in place X rather than place Y, where they would receive a greater reward for their (or the lenders) deferred consumption, and their willingness to gamble that enough people will be willing to pay for the thing they want to create.

The answer to that question is: No can't force people to do that thing.

And that is the hole in your reasoning - you completely leave the worker part of the equation out.

Again, I will ask... why is it that a worker cannot as easily move to the country where the job (regardless of whose "property" you think it is) has moved?

 

[neonlyte]

And that is the hole in your reasoning - you completely leave the worker part of the equation out.

Again, I will ask... why is it that a worker cannot as easily move to the country where the job (regardless of whose "property" you think it is) has moved?

They can in the EU. I work in two countries. Close to 200,000 Poles settled in UK last year, I bet I could get a job in the US if I could only learn to speak Spanish.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

And that is the hole in your reasoning - you completely leave the worker part of the equation out.

Again, I will ask... why is it that a worker cannot as easily move to the country where the job (regardless of whose "property" you think it is) has moved?

Ah, well, that's a slightly different question, which is essentially, why shouldn't there be free immigration across all borders? In principle, no reason. In principle, no reason not to have one-world government either, per the conditions I cite on your other thread. Perhaps this particular question/issue - immigration - really belongs on that thread.

 

[Liar]

And that is the hole in your reasoning - you completely leave the worker part of the equation out.

Again, I will ask... why is it that a worker cannot as easily move to the country where the job (regardless of whose "property" you think it is) has moved?

Aye. That part is gravel in the machinery, I guess. If capital and resources (and job opportunities) are allowed to move unrestricted across borders on a free market, so should people.

Although, that creates a whole new dilemma. Would you like a few hundred million more mexicans?

 

[Stella_Omega]

And that is the hole in your reasoning - you completely leave the worker part of the equation out.

Again, I will ask... why is it that a worker cannot as easily move to the country where the job (regardless of whose "property" you think it is) has moved?

Consider all of the customer service that has been moved to India. That is a purely arbitrary and only virtual "move"-- the phone calls could be routed to any service center anywhere in the globe. You could just as easily get me on the phone, as the woman in new Delhi that I just spoke to-- whom I just now guided through the technical issues, and helped her find my answers... I know just as much as she does, more actually. I don't have the manual, that's all.

 

[Munachi]

Define "fair."

If person A is ready, willing and able to get job X done for a dollar less than person B in another place, is it fair to dicriminate against him on the basis of where he lives? Is it fair to force a consumer to pay more so that person B can have the job?

is it fair that person A ends up doing the job for almost nothing, because there are thousands of people around that want to do the job, and person A is unable to do any other or better job not because of being unwilling or born stupid, but rather because of never having had access to education nor even to the type of nourishment that is necessary to fully develop one's intellectual capacities?

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

is it fair that person A ends up doing the job for almost nothing, because there are thousands of people around that want to do the job, and person A is unable to do any other or better job not because of being unwilling or born stupid, but rather because of never having had access to education nor even to the type of nourishment that is necessary to fully develop one's intellectual capacities?

No.

~~~

 

[Stella_Omega]

is it fair that person A ends up doing the job for almost nothing, because there are thousands of people around that want to do the job, and person A is unable to do any other or better job not because of being unwilling or born stupid, but rather because of never having had access to education nor even to the type of nourishment that is necessary to fully develop one's intellectual capacities?

Stupid people are necessary-- Someone has to do those jobs!

 

[rgraham666]

I was a janitor for a while. I don't think a stupid person could do a really good job.

In fact, recalling the work of some of my 'colleagues', I know that's not the case.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Aye. That part is gravel in the machinery, I guess. If capital and resources (and job opportunities) are allowed to move unrestricted across borders on a free market, so should people.

Although, that creates a whole new dilemma. Would you like a few hundred million more mexicans?

We already have them now. They're flooding in here.

Have you, on the other hand, seen Mexico's laws on immigration? Especially for people from Sudamerica?

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Ah, well, that's a slightly different question, which is essentially, why shouldn't there be free immigration across all borders? In principle, no reason. In principle, no reason not to have one-world government either, per the conditions I cite on your other thread. Perhaps this particular question/issue - immigration - really belongs on that thread.

But that question was the heart of the theme of this thread.

Globalization can't really happen when goods and jobs move far easier than people.