GLB in the military

[ezervet]

I've been thinking about this alot lately, and I'm curious what you guys might think about it.

I recently (in part on this board, in fact) admitted that I'm bi. I can deal with this in a normal social context, i.e. I don't think my family/friends would care, and I don't really care about anyone else. However, for a long time, I've thought that I, personally, had to serve my country, specifically in the Marines. During my whole denial phase I thought, "whatever, I'm never going to come out anyways, it doesn't matter if i don't come out while I'm in the military." Now that I'm pretty sure I'll be 'out' at some point, I'm not sure if I'm willing to go through 4 years (at least) active duty, and then another 4 years (at least) in the reserves without being able to be who I am. More than that, if I slip up, I'll be court martialled, and thats something that would follow me around for the rest of my life. However, and this is the important part, I feel as if it would be equally injurious to me if I didn't serve; the need to serve is to me as important as the sexual part of my identity. Maybe it should be more important, I'm not sure.

p.s - sorry for being a lurker who only talks about serious stuff, i actually smile sometimes in real life.

 

[XCal]

I'm pretty sure you'll need to keep your orientation under your hat until your service is finished, at least with respect to the Marines. Not trying to piss on your aspirations - I very much respect your desire to serve in the military. But I'd really consider keeping this to yourself if the possibility exists that you can get into serious trouble if the Marines find out you're bi.

 

[ezervet]

yeah, i figured on that. i'm just wondering whether its worth it or not.

 

[Etoile]

I also respect your desire to serve in the military. It's an international shame that gay people are still not allowed to serve in the United States.

You mention that you are bi, and not specifically gay. To my knowledge, there is no rule against bi people serving in the military, as long as they do not have same-sex relations (or at least get caught doing so). If you tend toward the gay side of bi, this might not be very helpful, but it is something to consider.

 

[killallhippies]

I also respect your desire to serve in the military. It's an international shame that gay people are still not allowed to serve in the United States.

You mention that you are bi, and not specifically gay. To my knowledge, there is no rule against bi people serving in the military, as long as they do not have same-sex relations (or at least get caught doing so). If you tend toward the gay side of bi, this might not be very helpful, but it is something to consider.

considering the fact that a lot of people in this country don't believe in bisexuality i'd guess you could still get kicked out of the military for being bi.

also, it's don't ask, don't tell not go ahead and be gay just don't have gay sex.

 

[13abovethenight]

As a former Marine I can safely say don't mix your personal life with your professional life, unless that is you could whip Bruce Lee's ass. In which case-bombs away.

 

[Etoile]

As a former Marine I can safely say don't mix your personal life with your professional life, unless that is you could whip Bruce Lee's ass. In which case-bombs away.

Good advice for most lines of work!

 

[gagginforit]

It amazes me that people, especially other military people have a problem with gays serving. If someone is prepared to stand up and serve their country, and maybe even fight and die for their country... SURELY that must count for something. That must be more important than what a person gets up to in the bedroom.

I hope you have a successful career in the Marines, but it's totally understandable if you don't come out. Oooorah!

 

[BitterIchor]

Bill Hicks had a great piece on gays in the military:

Here's how I feel about gays in the military; anyone...anyone DUMB ENOUGH to want to be in the military should be allowed in. End of fucking story. That should be the only requirement. I don't care how many pushups you can do, put on a helmet and go wait in that farmshold, we'll tell you when we want you to kill somebody. I'm so sick of these....I've watched these congressional hearings and all these military guys that pondered seriously, "oh, the core we'll be affected and we are such a moral...", EXCUSE ME, AREN'T YOU ALL JUST FUCKING HIRED KILLERS? SHUT UP! You are thugs, and we want you to go and blow the shit out of a little nation of brown people, we'll let you know, until then.... Where did the fucking military get all these ideas about morality? "We are so moral, we are the military...is that a village if women and children? Here's an A-Bomb!" *kaboom* "I don't want any gay people around me while I'm killing kids, I just don want to see it!"
Oh, and don't tell me the military exists to protect our freedom, hey ladies and gentlemen, there aren't anyone out there who's a fucking threat to us, ok?

 

[neonflux]

Some web sites, etc.

Hi ezervet,

I am the webmaster for 2 sites involving LGBT folks in the military - the first is a research institute based out of UC Santa Barbara, the Center for the Study of Sexual Minorities in the Military - their links page may prove very helpful:

http://www.gaymilitary.ucsb.edu/ResearchResources/ResearchWebResources.htm

The other site is the Military Education Project, a non-profit that is working to involve veterans in the debate over DADT, LGB people's right to serve, etc. In addition to a massive annotated list of web resources, you will also find stories from LGBT veterans and some active duty personnel:

http://www.military-education.org

In addition, I would at least check out SLDN, the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, in case you ever need legal representation:

http://www.sldn.org.

Feel free to PM me should you want more info and good luck. Thank you for your willingness to serve - difficult under most circumstances, doubly so under DADT - and please know our hearts are with you and that many of us are grateful for your sacrifice.

~ Justine

I've been thinking about this alot lately, and I'm curious what you guys might think about it.

I recently (in part on this board, in fact) admitted that I'm bi. I can deal with this in a normal social context, i.e. I don't think my family/friends would care, and I don't really care about anyone else. However, for a long time, I've thought that I, personally, had to serve my country, specifically in the Marines. During my whole denial phase I thought, "whatever, I'm never going to come out anyways, it doesn't matter if i don't come out while I'm in the military." Now that I'm pretty sure I'll be 'out' at some point, I'm not sure if I'm willing to go through 4 years (at least) active duty, and then another 4 years (at least) in the reserves without being able to be who I am. More than that, if I slip up, I'll be court martialled, and thats something that would follow me around for the rest of my life. However, and this is the important part, I feel as if it would be equally injurious to me if I didn't serve; the need to serve is to me as important as the sexual part of my identity. Maybe it should be more important, I'm not sure.

p.s - sorry for being a lurker who only talks about serious stuff, i actually smile sometimes in real life.

 

[Somme]

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/011606S.shtml

 

[ezervet]

Thanks to all of you for your responses..sort of echoing alot of my own thoughts on this, which is to be expected, I suppose.

Justine, thanks very much for your response. For some reason it had never even occured to me to just google the topic, which seems kinds of stupid in retrospect, i don't think i've ever had a question in my life that couldn't be helped, in however small a manner, by googling it.

Ah well, I never planned on joining up until after college anyways, so I've got a while to think about this.

Thinking about shit seems to occupy most of my time nowadays, ha.

 

[fingermagic]

I've been thinking about this alot lately, and I'm curious what you guys might think about it.

I recently (in part on this board, in fact) admitted that I'm bi. I can deal with this in a normal social context, i.e. I don't think my family/friends would care, and I don't really care about anyone else. However, for a long time, I've thought that I, personally, had to serve my country, specifically in the Marines. During my whole denial phase I thought, "whatever, I'm never going to come out anyways, it doesn't matter if i don't come out while I'm in the military." Now that I'm pretty sure I'll be 'out' at some point, I'm not sure if I'm willing to go through 4 years (at least) active duty, and then another 4 years (at least) in the reserves without being able to be who I am. More than that, if I slip up, I'll be court martialled, and thats something that would follow me around for the rest of my life. However, and this is the important part, I feel as if it would be equally injurious to me if I didn't serve; the need to serve is to me as important as the sexual part of my identity. Maybe it should be more important, I'm not sure.

p.s - sorry for being a lurker who only talks about serious stuff, i actually smile sometimes in real life.

I can tell you from 22 years of experience that there are many GLBs in all branches of the military and they range from E1 to flag rank. Having said that, sometimes it is best if , and I know this will sound bad, if your priority is to serve, that our sexuality be told to only people who matter. I support the desire to be open and honest, however, does it really matter in the long run. People who are closed minded and not very understanding (which is most of the military leadership) and you will gain nothing by exchanging this information.

 

[ezervet]

oh hell yeah, if i ever joined up, i know it would mean going right back into the closet. which is kind of disconcerting.

 

[fingermagic]

oh hell yeah, if i ever joined up, i know it would mean going right back into the closet. which is kind of disconcerting.

You just got to sort out your priorities dude. I had a great time, however, there are times when you really want to just be yourself.

 

[CJontherocks]

Bill Hicks had a great piece on gays in the military:

Here's how I feel about gays in the military; anyone...anyone DUMB ENOUGH to want to be in the military should be allowed in. End of fucking story. That should be the only requirement. I don't care how many pushups you can do, put on a helmet and go wait in that farmshold, we'll tell you when we want you to kill somebody. I'm so sick of these....I've watched these congressional hearings and all these military guys that pondered seriously, "oh, the core we'll be affected and we are such a moral...", EXCUSE ME, AREN'T YOU ALL JUST FUCKING HIRED KILLERS? SHUT UP! You are thugs, and we want you to go and blow the shit out of a little nation of brown people, we'll let you know, until then.... Where did the fucking military get all these ideas about morality? "We are so moral, we are the military...is that a village if women and children? Here's an A-Bomb!" *kaboom* "I don't want any gay people around me while I'm killing kids, I just don want to see it!"
Oh, and don't tell me the military exists to protect our freedom, hey ladies and gentlemen, there aren't anyone out there who's a fucking threat to us, ok?

Ouch.

(Edited because I may have misunderstood the message.)

 

[CJontherocks]

Ezervet,

I happen to know that one can serve a great many years in the military and be queer, as long as one doesn't make a spectacle of it. And there are just as many idiots who are not in the military who try to hurt those who are not like them. Yeah, you gotta be careful. You can't be "out." But you can still be you.

Oh, and there is no rule against being gay (or bi). Only homosexual activity is against the rules.

One last thought... there are many, many ways to serve your country. If you choose not to become a Marine, I'm sure you can serve your country to an equal extent in some way.

 

[OlderBiMan]

I served in the military once. I was a sergeant first-class during Operation Desert Storm. Back then, I was just a young, married guy who kept his bisexuality to himself. There weren't any women in my unit and many of the guys would fuck other guys. This was done under cover of darkness. I was probably one of few guys who didn't mess around, just to find sexual release. Why I didn't ? Not because I feared being kicked out of the military for being bisexual but because I was loyal to my wife.

 

[neonflux]

You're very welcome...

Good luck on your journey, wherever it takes you and please continue to update us!

~ J

Justine, thanks very much for your response. For some reason it had never even occured to me to just google the topic, which seems kinds of stupid in retrospect, i don't think i've ever had a question in my life that couldn't be helped, in however small a manner, by googling it.

 

[Ironman86]

Just thought I would add a reply to this. My boyfriend of 2 years is serving in the military, he is stationed in Ft. Cambell Kentucky. While all our friends and family know about our relationship, the men he serves with in the military do not. It is ridiculous that many gay and lesbian americans serve in our military to protect us each and every day have to keep their lives a secret just because of peoples insecurities and prejudices. This is everyones country and without those men and women fighting for our rights we would not be here today. Its the same thing that happened on 9/11 with Mark Binghim....... Just because he was gay he did not get the credit he deserved for helping take over the plane with the other passengers. The Melissa Etheridge song "Tuesday Morning" speaks volumes to everyone if you listen to it........ Terriffic song with a really meaningful message.

 

[John Doe]

considering the fact that a lot of people in this country don't believe in bisexuality i'd guess you could still get kicked out of the military for being bi.

also, it's don't ask, don't tell not go ahead and be gay just don't have gay sex.

Actually, that's pretty much what it comes down to. In fact, some of the language in the policy is almost in those words.