Giving up on authoring here

[Laetor]

OK, that's it, I'm throwing in the towel, unless someone else has a suggestion for me. After putting a tremendous amount of time and energy into 3 chapters of a story, the last 2 chapters continue to get rejected. And all I have to say is "Form responses SUCK ASS." I have no fucking clue what is wrong with the second chapters, they're formatted just like the first one. I mean, give me a break. I have personally read stories where the writers couldn't speak English, much less format their paragraphs correctly. This site is WAAAAAY TOOOOOOO SERIOUS about itself, and needs to lighten WAY up before I try posting again.

With editors so freaking strict, it is truly amazing ANY stories get published at all. Truly.

VERY dissapointing to a new beginning writer who wanted to share some erotica among like-minded individuals. Literotica used to be my favorite site -- my porn portal, in fact -- but this setback has radically altered my perceptions of the quality of the site itself.

-Laetor

 

[KillerMuffin]

What's the rejection say?

 

[Laetor]

The exact same thing it said before I spent 20 minutes making corrections to soothe the damaged aesthetic sense of the Editor. I capitalize that, because I feel like they would like it that way, if you know what I'm saying.

Did I follow the Writer's Guidelines for submission? These can be found by clicking here
Was the story not broken into appropriately sized paragraphs?
Were there URL links, site addresses, or other advertisements within the story?

1. There are about 20 thousand rules in that guideline listing. How could I possibly know which ones I'm breaking?
2. YES, I've formatted the paragraphs correctly. If I haven't, then someone apparently needs single-line paragraphs.
3. There is no advertisement for a website, only a mention of one to describe a blow-job occurring in the story. Why, exactly, is this a problem? Would it also be a problem to mention a neligee came from Victoria's Secret, or someone was at the Exotic Erotic ball in SF, or a dildo was the premier model that Good Vibrations sells? I think not.

I mean, look at the situation here. These rules are stifling creativity to the point of utter submission. I know, there are plenty of authors willing to bow down and submit to them, but to my creative sense, and witnessing the thousands of stories IN DIRECT CONFLICT with the rules as some Editor is applying them to me, there is injustice here. The truth is, there are plenty of sites out there willing to take submissions with less stringent requirements, and I think I'll just have to find those. Literotica is missing out on a lot of content, methinks. Sure, it's getting plenty, but I feel strongly it could be getting a lot more, if they gave up on their pretensions to be the New Yorker and realized, jee whiz, they're just another pr0n site on the web. I admit, a very nice site as it is, but a pr0n site nonetheless. Surprise surprise.

-Laetor

 

[KillerMuffin]

Huhm. I doubt it has anything to do with pretention. I probably has more to do with the myriad and scathing complaints about the authors 'round here that can't be bothered to use correct punctuation, spelling, and other grammar rules. The editors have been cracking down recently on these sorts of conventions. You can write about whatever you want, but do so within the bounds of current writing conventions. That means punctuate, spell, and the like. This is--by no means--an inference that you do not do these things. I have no idea, I've never seen your work.

The rules of the site do not allow email addresses or website URLs to be posted either in the body of the story or the title. No newsgroups, no fake sites, nada. It's a case of "if he can do it, why can't I?" The website issue relates directly to the fact that you're on a website that offers not only porn, but advertising space to other porn sites. It would be irresponsible to the advertisers to post URLs within the body of the story, even fake ones. They don't necessarily remain fake forever. Lingerie and dildos are not direct competition with Literotica's advertisers so they are okay unless linked directly to. For brevity's sake, Literotica bans the use of all web addresses. If you see one, let the webmasters know!

The first rejection is a link for your convenience. The second was more than likely a mistake. These things happen. If you remove the website you should be okay.

 

[jfinn]

I mean, look at the situation here. These rules are stifling creativity to the point of utter submission. I know, there are plenty of authors willing to bow down and submit to them, but to my creative sense, and witnessing the thousands of stories IN DIRECT CONFLICT with the rules as some Editor is applying them to me, there is injustice here. The truth is, there are plenty of sites out there willing to take submissions with less stringent requirements, and I think I'll just have to find those. Literotica is missing out on a lot of content, methinks. Sure, it's getting plenty, but I feel strongly it could be getting a lot more, if they gave up on their pretensions to be the New Yorker and realized, jee whiz, they're just another pr0n site on the web. I admit, a very nice site as it is, but a pr0n site nonetheless. Surprise surprise.

-Laetor

I'm not sure about something here. Are you asking for help or are you just venting? Both are perfectly valid actions, but if it's the last than you'd be better off contacting the powers that be than posting this to the Author's Hangout. We have no input in the submission process so what you're doing is similar to kicking the dog because you're mad at your boss. However if you want assistance than I'm sure any of us would be glad to help as KM has already shown in her post.

I know you must be frustrated. I've experienced some problems posting before on some other sites and it's discouraging to say the least. But I doubt it's as personal as you're taking it. It may have nothing at all to do with your story itself, it could be a formatting problem or the type of word processing program you use. There are all kinds of reasons, but the only way to figure out which one is the culprit now is to calmly and rationally look at each one and decide if it fits the bill.

If you want, you could even send me a copy of the story and I'll look and see if I can figure out what's wrong. I'm no expert, but I've never had a problem getting my stories online here.

You're absolutely right, there are a fair amount of rules for submittions here. There are at most of the quality sites, Lit is no exception. But then again, that's what makes it such a good site.

Jayne

 

[Laetor]

Mainly venting, in fact. I feel that without the ability to discuss things with the Editors themselves, it's of limited value asking totally unrelated parties to review the story. I mean, getting it past the volunteer editors won't mean squat when it comes to trying to get it past whichever Editors are evaluating my work. The feedback mechanism is really a sad state.

If Literotica is claiming that an Editor cannot take 8 seconds per story to select exact lines from a list that depict the problems in the story, and maybe 8 seconds more to note WHICH paragraphs are offending them by being too long (which is a stretch in and of itself, but I digress), then the Editors cannot do their job. It's the FORM LETTER that is a serious problem.

It's just like getting back those letters from magazines. "Yes, thank you, keep your name in our files, etc. etc." Totally inhuman. I don't come to Literotica to feel like a number, and this "submissions process" is taking me right back to the days of yesteryear, applying for college and having no idea what it will take to get in. The exclusivity is a major turn-off.

But perhaps I'm missing something. Is it, indeed, possible, to 1. find out who edits and rejects a story and 2. have a rational, humane discussion with them so that one can seek approval and entrance through the magical, mystical Gate of Aesthetically Pleasingly Short Paragraphs?

Lastly, calling these people Editors is a poor joke at best, and a misuse of English at worst.

The title of Editor assumes the person will EDIT, not simply approve or reject. Makes changes, deletes paragraphs, changes names, requests additional clarification, material, characters, whatever, so that it WILL pass, so that the article will be published, the book printed, etc. These Literotica Editor people are _revisionists_ (changing "part" to "chapter", etc.) and _gates_, saying yes or no. They are not Editors.

-Laetor

 

[KillerMuffin]

Um.

I am an editor (not here). If I reject something, it gets a form letter. The slush-pile is a migraine in the making. There is simply no way to give everyone feedback. I'll scribble margin notes on ones that show promise, but other than that, it's an SASE back at ya. As an editor, I am not getting paid to help people get published. I'm getting paid to put things in the publication. It's frustrating to the writer, but for every story you submit to, there are literally hundreds more in the pile on top you that demand attention.

Literotica (as stated in the guidelines) expects the author to submit publication-ready work. Lit is a story archive, not a magazine, so there is a lot more leeway involved in what "publication-ready" might be. The criteria is actually if the editor notices the mistakes rather than the mistakes themselves. The Lit editor goes through an average of 100 stories a night. It must be done in a time frame of 4 to 5 hours. This doesn't include poetry, requests for removal, edited submissions, and any submission that takes extra time. The editors here to do not edit your work for you. It takes time to edit just one story. There would be no Literotica if they edited. Edit, by the way, also means to supervise the publication of material.

When I give information regarding editorial processes here at Lit, it's usually pretty accurate. It's the reason why I'm the moderator of the Editor's Forum. I know how the back-end works and I can answer questions from frustrated writers--much like yourself. As you can see, I've been around here a while with an embarrassing amount of time wasted on the forums. If I can't answer you, I can get you an answer.

 

[Rainbow Skin]

This site is WAAAAAY TOOOOOOO SERIOUS about itself, and needs to lighten WAY up before I try posting again.

I am puzzled by why you think anyone would care whether you're posted or not, as we don't know anything about your writing except that you can write LIKE THAT.

With editors so freaking strict, it is truly amazing ANY stories get published at all. Truly.

Vast amounts of rubbish get published here, way too much, because editors are so lax. The only restrictions they have a very few simple rules. I wish they also exercised some judgements on style and content, but it's not my site so I don't get to add guidelines.

1. There are about 20 thousand rules in that guideline listing. How could I possibly know which ones I'm breaking?

I refer the Honourable Member to my previous answer.

These rules are stifling creativity to the point of utter submission. I know, there are plenty of authors willing to bow down and submit to them, but to my creative sense,

Creativity? Mentioning a website by name rather than finding a way of describing it is creativity? Using unreadably long paragraphs is creativity? Are there rules about how many adjectives you can use together, what sort of metaphors you're allowed to coin, the psychological interactions you're allowed to describe? Are you confusing creativity with typing?

and witnessing the thousands of stories IN DIRECT CONFLICT with the rules

Excuse me, Minister, if they were in conflict with the rules you wouldn't see them here. They'd have been rejected.

Literotica is missing out on a lot of content, methinks. Sure, it's getting plenty, but I feel strongly it could be getting a lot more, if they gave up on their pretensions to be the New Yorker

If you think the masses of dross that get published here just because they adhere to the rules are anything like New Yorker level then I really, really don't want to see your idea of more relaxed, anything-goes style.

It's just like getting back those letters from magazines. "Yes, thank you, keep your name in our files, etc. etc."

The title of Editor assumes the person will EDIT, not simply approve or reject. Makes changes, deletes paragraphs, changes names, requests additional clarification, material, characters, whatever, so that it WILL pass, so that the article will be published, the book printed, etc.

These two are inconsistent. The former shows that you have got some experience of what editors do, the latter suggests you haven't. I'm an editor elsewhere, and there's no way you could ever expect to get an answer this detailed from someone as busy as an editor. If the rejection says X was wrong, then X was wrong, and you find it and fix it. If you really think you have fixed it, and it gets rejected a second time, then you can put a note on it.

If the note said 'Previously rejected for mentioning a website. I have changed this to be non-specific (in the third paragraph)' it might get a respectful re-reading from an editor.

If the note said anything that you have said in this thread, an unfortunate accidental power glitch would mean the resubmission wouldn't make it to the editors at all. At least it would if I was one, so good thing I'm not.

 

[Weird Harold]

But perhaps I'm missing something. Is it, indeed, possible, to 1. find out who edits and rejects a story and 2. have a rational, humane discussion with them so that one can seek approval and entrance through the magical, mystical Gate of Aesthetically Pleasingly Short Paragraphs?

1: The Editorial Staf at Literotica is Laurel and ... uhm ... nobody else.

2: Laurel can hold rational conversations. Can you?

Try ASSTR.org -- they have virtually no rules at all, although they will strip out any external links in your story too.

 

[Couture]

Laetor, you can send me the story if you want. At the moment, I'm too busy to edit. But, maybe I can take a look and let you know the problem.

 

[MathGirl]

Me, too.

I'll be glad to look at your story and tell you why it was rejected. PM it to me, and I'll do it today. Free, too. Such a deal!
MG

 

[deliciously_naughty]

Laurel is the editor...the only one with a say as to what gets posted. PM her and try to have an open dialogue with her. Do *not* be accusatory, cruel or attack her verbally. Say that you had a story rejected, list the reason that she gave you, and ask her for some guidance. But you must realize that she has to look at every single story, deal with every pm she gets and all the technical stuff. Give her some time to get back to you. Or take up someone's offer here.

 

[BardsLady]

Laetor,

I'm an author here. Granted I've only got one story on the grid and one pending. But I think I can honestly say that the people here have been pretty supportive and wonderful.

My first story was posted and I was so jazzed. My second story is still pending. It was suggested that I get an editor for this one. So I did. He's been a great guy and has worked with me on my second story. And hes' been good enough to work with the third story as well.

Hopefully the second story will get approved this time around. I still have hope for it. At least I'm getting experience with how to put together a story and stuff.

Sure, it's rough. It's disappointing at times. And it's frustrating to see the rejection notice on the end of the story and the explanations are vague. But keep plugging at it.

My suggestion is this:
If you dont like your editor, get another one. I dont think there's a rule that's set in stone that says you absolutely MUST use the one you're working with now.

I got lucky, TheLegguy is fun to work with and we get along fantastic.


Just my two cents in on the conversation,
BardsLady

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

Email Laurel. I've had browser upload issues with each one of my stories so far, and each time Laurel has been incredibly prompt, responsive and friendly. I doubt mine is an isolated experience. Killermuffin is absolutely right- its a huge amount of reading/analyzing on her part every day- I myself am amazed at her omniscience.

As for your rejection, it may be as simple as changing a few words. I personally would rather have Draconian submission guidelines (which Laurel's are not) than wade through a bunch of illiterate, incoherent bullshit trying to find a halfway decent story. It's simple- if it's harder to get posted, the quality of submissions goes up, which in my opinion is a good thing, having seen some of what has been posted without prejudice in the past.

Laurel is only trying to maintain a minimum standard, and to do that, one needs baseline criteria. Given the amount of submissions, this criteria is, by necessity, applied with a broad brush across the spectrum. If you have an individual grievance, you will need to make it known to Laurel- otherwise she has no way of knowing what your situation is.
Take Mathgirl or Killermuffin up on their editing offers. They are both infinitely literate and charming, and have seen cases like yours many, many times before.

Mlle

 

[Quasimodem]

. . . Take Mathgirl or Killermuffin up on their editing offers. They are both infinitely literate and charming, and have seen cases like yours many, many times before. Mlle

Just a straw count, Laetor, but KillerMuffin has managed to thread the needle 48 times, MathGirl 33 times, and they have both just offered you their appraisal.

Free, too. Such a deal!

 

[SexyChele]

Have you taken the time to actually read the submission guidelines? Yeah, I know they look long, but it really doesn't take that long to read them. And once you have, all you need do is keep them in mind. I've never had a story rejected, and I've more than 25 out here at Lit. Maybe it helps to understand where Laurel is coming from and what she is looking for?

Also, if you want a no holds barred approach, you could always start your own site. Then you needn't worry about the rules and guidelines and such.

In all seriousness, you might want to consider taking up one of the offers given here. Couldn't really hurt, could it?

 

[pop_54]

Yeppers

Rejection is shit aint it mate, don't take it personally and don't take it to heart.

Take advice given here and you won't go far wrong muffie and MG have offered to look over you stories, so too has jayne, I won't offer that, cos I just aint that good at editing my own crap never mind someone elses.

Laurel is also here to help when she can, she aint some ogre sitting in a castle waiting to pounce.

pops little two pence worth.

 

[MathGirl]

,Take Mathgirl or Killermuffin up on their editing offers. They are both infinitely literate and charming, and have seen cases like yours many, many times before.

Dear Ms Blue Pen,
I'm very flattered, but you should not mention my name and Muffie's in the same paragraph, literarywise. She's a pro, I'm a rank amateur. Willing, though.
MG

 

[Guest]

Dear MG: *how* rank, dear?

very cordially, Perdita

 

[LorriLove]

hiya

i just love a willing amateur myself math girl, wink


hiya perdita how are you tonight honey.

love lorri xxxx

 

[MathGirl]

Dear MG: *how* rank, dear?

Dear Perdita,
I knew someone was going to say that, I just didn't know who it would be.
MG
Ps. Rank as 3 day summer roadkill.

 

[Guest]

LorriLover:

I am very well, thanks for asking. You, madam, *always* look well. ta, Perdita

p.s. ignore MG, she's 'rank'.

 

[LorriLove]

hiya

willing and rank, i love it, giggle.

 

[MathGirl]

Oh, well......

Since I haven't received anything from him, I assume Laetor doesn't want any help with his story. At least not from me.

You can lead a hoss to water, but you can't make him gather moss.

Are there really "guidelines" to stories posted somewhere? I've honestly never read them. I just started submitting stuff about a year ago and it stuck. Only thing I ever had rejected was for 'underage' and I ain't gonna fuss about that.

Most of my stuff isn't very good, and I'm downright embarrassed when I look at some of the early things. In the limited amount of reading I've done here, I've seen some things that are barely literate. I can't help wondering how bad something has to be to get rejected. I'd really like to see some of the things which have been turned down.
Episthemologically,
MG

 

[deliciously_naughty]

Basically the guidelines are that it has to be readable (in terms of spelling and grammar), can't feature anyone under 18 in a sexual situation, no disney or HP character in the celeb category (they sue and such), no websites, and it has to be over 600 words.

That's about it.

I'd say that Lae just wanted to whine about poor poor him. I know that if KM or MG offered to help me I'd jump at the chance.

I also wonder if he was told that it wasn't ready by a volunteer ed or by laurel. I would assume the latter, but it did occur to me after his ignorant comments about what he expected from an editor.

Shrug.