Give me your take on this feedback, please

[Camille Savage]

.

 

[cookiejar]

Cammy welcome...ask any writer here we all get them. I once was told my writing was a "piece of crap"...anonymous of course. Forget it, concentrate on the constructive ones and keep writing!!


Cookie

 

[hiddenself]

I'm not sure what you're complaining ("venting") about...

You DO write like a man. Can't explain it really but consider this scene:

Knowing what I wanted, Honey instinctively moved herself into position, straddling Dan’s groin. I watched as she slowly lowered herself onto Dan’s throbbing member, moaning as only a woman in need of a hard cock can moan. I moved behind Honey, kissing her shoulders and back, and I placed my hands on her small, well-defined waist, assisting her thrusts. My hands began to travel her body and finding her breasts, I gently cupped them, squeezing her nipples as her body slowly rose and fell.

“Fuck him good, baby!” I encouraged. “O, god, fu-uck him good.”

Finally releasing Honey’s breasts, I moved to Dan’s mouth, kissing him again. I watch as their bodies heaved, Honey’s tits bouncing with each thrust. Their faces were filled with expressions of pleasure as they enjoyed the feeling of their bodies united.

You'd find that very few heterosexual women have (or at least express) fantasies like the above and very few female writers write this way. Don't know about fantasies of RL bi females though. Anyway, I suspect that's what your anonymous "fan" meant.

As for the "minimally talented" comment, one may agree or disagree with it but it's a valid statement. Personally, I didn't find the story particularly hot -- too cliche, too porn-flick-like.

I also thought that the main protag's eager responses were not in line with some of the characterizations in the narrative. She's "embarrassed," yet the next moment so bold. Then Honey is "her dream"?!

But when Honey comes to the table we have a "protest":

“Dan!” I cried, my eyes wide in amazement. “I’m not sure about . . .”

Well, this kind of thing goes on until the end. I do understand the point and realism of the yes/no swings (Madonna/whore etc), but the pendulum swings too wide and ruins believability.

Just my opinion (as always).

 

[Camille Savage]

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[Camille Savage]

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[Image]

I'm not sure what you're complaining ("venting") about...

You DO write like a man. Can't explain it really but consider this scene:

Knowing what I wanted, Honey instinctively moved herself into position, straddling Dan’s groin. I watched as she slowly lowered herself onto Dan’s throbbing member, moaning as only a woman in need of a hard cock can moan. I moved behind Honey, kissing her shoulders and back, and I placed my hands on her small, well-defined waist, assisting her thrusts. My hands began to travel her body and finding her breasts, I gently cupped them, squeezing her nipples as her body slowly rose and fell.

“Fuck him good, baby!” I encouraged. “O, god, fu-uck him good.”

Finally releasing Honey’s breasts, I moved to Dan’s mouth, kissing him again. I watch as their bodies heaved, Honey’s tits bouncing with each thrust. Their faces were filled with expressions of pleasure as they enjoyed the feeling of their bodies united.

You'd find that very few heterosexual women have (or at least express) fantasies like the above and very few female writers write this way. Don't know about fantasies of RL bi females though. Anyway, I suspect that's what your anonymous "fan" meant.

As for the "minimally talented" comment, one may agree or disagree with it but it's a valid statement. Personally, I didn't find the story particularly hot -- too cliche, too porn-flick-like.

I also thought that the main protag's eager responses were not in line with some of the characterizations in the narrative. She's "embarrassed," yet the next moment so bold. Then Honey is "her dream"?!

But when Honey comes to the table we have a "protest":

“Dan!” I cried, my eyes wide in amazement. “I’m not sure about . . .”

Well, this kind of thing goes on until the end. I do understand the point and realism of the yes/no swings (Madonna/whore etc), but the pendulum swings too wide and ruins believability.

Just my opinion (as always).

Hiddenself... So now I am really am curious to hear what you think of MY writing style (I have only submitted one but I have a lot incomplete) I understand what you are saying, though in fairness I have only read what you quoted. I am going to read the story.
I don't know why I really care... I just like examining human nature.

And if you really hate it just let me know on the thread... please don't vote a 1, unless you really feel you must . I kinda like having that little red "H" beside the title.

 

[storyguy62]

The following is feedback that I received:

"This message contains feedback for: Camille Savage
About the submission: A Taste of Honey
This feedback was sent by: Anonymous

Comments:

you write like a man ... a minimally talented one"

I'm curious. Has anyone else gotten comments like this? What does that mean, I write like a man? I also find it kinda humorous.

I can understand the minimally talented part. Everyone has a right to his/her opinion. I have never claimed to be a creative writer. I'm just a woman that had a fantasty and decided to write it down.

Sorry, I'm kinda venting, too. Please forgive me. I hope I'm not opening up a can or worms here.

I can only speak from my own experience with feedback. Anybody who has thoughtful criticism, such as hiddenself's, I read, consider, and either agree with or disagree with, all the while appreciating that they took the time to think about what I had written and give it real reflection. Anybody who just shoots out a two sentence dig like you received, especially anonymously, isn't someone who wants to share feedback as much as it's someone who wants to get in a quick shot and then pat themselves on the back saying "Well, I guess I sure told her." Those replies aren't worth the effort it takes to read them, much less any intellectual or emotional energy to reflect or respond.

I don't think what you did here was venting, though. With your first story post, it's understandable that there will be feedback that you wonder about, and if this isn't a place to ask about it, then what place would be? No forgiveness is offered because there is nothing to forgive.

Storyguy

 

[Image]

Hey again... I just finished reading the whole story and while I didn't masturbate to it, it was pretty erotic... and I didn't see once where it appeared to be a man writing it... No wonder it was anonymous, the guy (must be ) doesn't know what he's talking about...
Keep writing your fantasies... it's all for you

 

[storyguy62]

Looking at the same thing and seeing different things

I'm not sure what you're complaining ("venting") about...

I don't think Camille was complaining. Just wondering about how to take a piece of feedback. That's part of the reason we're here, right?

You'd find that very few heterosexual women have (or at least express) fantasies like the above and very few female writers write this way. Don't know about fantasies of RL bi females though. Anyway, I suspect that's what your anonymous "fan" meant.

I know that, in my own writing, what I read is reflected in what I write. If most of the erotica we encounter is written by men (as I suspect it probably is), then it makes sense that our own attempts at writing will reflect that experience as a reader. Or in other words, if the vast majority of what we read is in Italian, we're probably not going to find that what we are writing is in Portugese.

As for the "minimally talented" comment, one may agree or disagree with it but it's a valid statement. Personally, I didn't find the story particularly hot -- too cliche, too porn-flick-like.

I know that there are stories that I read that don't strike me as hot, and yet I recognize them as well-done. There are other stories that strike me as very hot but at the same time, I know that this is not a particularly gifted writer. I think it's important to distinguish between the two.

In my own opinion, I thought Camille gave us characters that we could understand and a plot that made sense. Those two traits right there place her story ahead of probably 90% of the erotic fiction you find on the net. Literotica tends to be better. Some of the newsgroups tend to be substantially worse.

Well, this kind of thing goes on until the end. I do understand the point and realism of the yes/no swings (Madonna/whore etc), but the pendulum swings too wide and ruins believability.

I think all fiction, to one extent or another, requires the suspension of belief. This is probably even more true in erotica, a genre which is, by its very nature, fantasy-driven.

Just my opinion (as always).

And a thoughtful one, as well. I don't agree with you on this one, but it's always a treat to see feedback that is has been clearly thought-out.

Storyguy

 

[Camille Savage]

Hey again... I just finished reading the whole story and while I didn't masturbate to it, it was pretty erotic... and I didn't see once where it appeared to be a man writing it... No wonder it was anonymous, the guy (must be ) doesn't know what he's talking about...
Keep writing your fantasies... it's all for you

Thanks, Image.

You are right. It's my fantasy. I guess fantasies are like feelings - they are neither right nor wrong, they just are.

 

[Camille Savage]

Re: Re: Give me your take on this feedback, please

I can only speak from my own experience with feedback. Anybody who has thoughtful criticism, such as hiddenself's, I read, consider, and either agree with or disagree with, all the while appreciating that they took the time to think about what I had written and give it real reflection. Anybody who just shoots out a two sentence dig like you received, especially anonymously, isn't someone who wants to share feedback as much as it's someone who wants to get in a quick shot and then pat themselves on the back saying "Well, I guess I sure told her." Those replies aren't worth the effort it takes to read them, much less any intellectual or emotional energy to reflect or respond.

I don't think what you did here was venting, though. With your first story post, it's understandable that there will be feedback that you wonder about, and if this isn't a place to ask about it, then what place would be? No forgiveness is offered because there is nothing to forgive.

Storyguy

Thanks, SG. I agree. Hiddenself's comments were well thought out. I enjoyed reading what she had to say. I can't say it made me go, "Yay," but it made me think.

I couldn't help but to wonder if this might be someone I had ticked off on BB who thought I was a man trying to trick people into believing I was a woman. Really, I am a woman. I am not a man.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Personally, I think he was expecting the story to go a certain way and when it didn't, he got angry and let you know about it. This is, of course, assuming it's not a she.

 

[Camille Savage]

Personally, I think he was expecting the story to go a certain way and when it didn't, he got angry and let you know about it. This is, of course, assuming it's not a she.

Hmmmmmmmm . . . that's interesting. So you think people have pre-conceived notions and when it doesn't fit that notion they get angry. I always figure twists in plot to be interesting, not that my story had any deep "plot" or anything. I don't in any way consider my story literature.

Does anyone recall reading a short story called "the lottery"? I remember studying that in High School and it has always stuck with me. Man, talk about a shocking ending.

 

[Guest]

The lottery?

Is that the story where the townfolk select one person to be killed to ensure a good harvest?

That one certainly stuck with me as well. The mother of a family winds up being the one chosen, and then the entire town kills her by stoning her (and they give her own young children small pebbles to throw!!!)

I think I'll stick to writing smut for awhile. It is muuuuuuch safer.

 

[Camille Savage]

Re: The lottery?

Is that the story where the townfolk select one person to be killed to ensure a good harvest?

That one certainly stuck with me as well. The mother of a family winds up being the one chosen, and then the entire town kills her by stoning her (and they give her own young children small pebbles to throw!!!)

I think I'll stick to writing smut for awhile. It is muuuuuuch safer.

Yeah, that's the story.

I agree with you. I don't think my brain could come up with anything quite so shocking.

You know, I have an idea for another story I am toying around with. I am sure that it will be considered "manly" as well. It's got all the classic porn elements - gang bang, strap ons, lots of blow jobs, body fluids . . . oh well . . . I guess I must have too much testosterone flowing through my body.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: The lottery?

You know, I have an idea for another story I am toying around with. I am sure that it will be considered "manly" as well. It's got all the classic porn elements - gang bang, strap ons, lots of blow jobs, body fluids . . . oh well . . . I guess I must have too much testosterone flowing through my body.

Uh-oh.

Body fluids, blow jobs and strap ons? (Oh my!)

ALL of my stories must have been written by men!



(Please don't tell my husband!)


Oh, and about the feedback? If an insignificant prick sends anonymous comments they are certainly not worth your time.

Delete 'em - and forget 'em.

Just make sure to keep a few of your nice feedback emails. Those can be terrific pick-me-ups when you're having a rotten day!

 

[Camille Savage]

Re: Re: Re: The lottery?

Uh-oh.

Body fluids, blow jobs and strap ons? (Oh my!)

ALL of my stories must have been written by men!



(Please don't tell my husband!)


Oh, and about the feedback? If an insignificant prick sends anonymous comments they are certainly not worth your time.

Delete 'em - and forget 'em.

Just make sure to keep a few of your nice feedback emails. Those can be terrific pick-me-ups when you're having a rotten day!

thanks, babe. You have been very kind.

Most of my comments have been very encouraging, a fact that has very much surprised me. I guess this comment left me more puzzled than upset. I wish they had given me an e-mail addy so I could have e-mailed him/her back and said, "but what does that MEAN?"

Thanks everyone that has responded to my inquiry.

Camille

 

[damppanties]

Is there a male style of writing?

This reminded me about a thread in AH a few days back which was about a computer(?) which told you if you're a man or a woman based on your writing. There was a lot of crap I didn't read in there and I think there was a conclusion saying that the results were wrong more times than they were right.

 

[janus40s]

Writing like a man...

I have to chuckle when I hear that someone supposedly "writes like a man". It implies that there are certain thoughts and ways of expressing onesself that are approved for women and others that are approved for men.

There is nothing unfeminine about enjoying raw, nasty, hard fucking. A very good female friend of mine likes watching pornography with her husband. She doesn't like the plot scenes, she likes the part where there are good clear camera angles of a penis taking long hard strokes into and out of a vagina.

Why? Because she likes thinking about what it would feel like to have that going on between her legs. Yes, she's a flaming heterosexual. Women making out don't do it for her.

Despite what the twits will say, many women like visual stimulation and many women like fucking (as opposed to or in addition to making love).

 

[janus40s]

and furthermore...

From the other direction, it is even more entertaining to read feedback that "Only a woman could possibly have written that. Men just don't understand what it's like..."

I have had this kind of feedback applied to my writing. I consider it the most sincere form of compliment, even though it displays a profound ignorance of the human condition.

My point is, go on writing in whatever way suits you, regardless of the gender acceptability. Some people out there will like it, including some women.

Yes, your literary craft could use some work. However, you have overcome the biggest hurdle: being able to accept direct unblinking accurate criticism (e.g. from hiddenself). The most painful criticism of all is the stuff that's true. If you can take that, you have a future as a writer.

BTW: It isn't a matter of tact. If a critic is deliberately harsh, it doesn't hurt as much. You can always chalk that up to a mean reviewer. The stuff that really hurts is objective, accurate, plain-spoken, fair and constructive. The truth is brutal.

For myself, I don't read critiques of my writing unless my spouse is home and available to me. Sometimes I need a shoulder to cry on. Those are the times when I learn something really valuable about my writing and that's when it improves.

Use the volunteer editor service and/or share some of your writing with the rest of us before submitting it. We'll help.

 

[Camille Savage]

This reminded me about a thread in AH a few days back which was about a computer(?) which told you if you're a man or a woman based on your writing. There was a lot of crap I didn't read in there and I think there was a conclusion saying that the results were wrong more times than they were right.

Thanks, Ms. Panties. Maybe I'll go look for that.

 

[Camille Savage]

Re: and furthermore...

From the other direction, it is even more entertaining to read feedback that "Only a woman could possibly have written that. Men just don't understand what it's like..."

I have had this kind of feedback applied to my writing. I consider it the most sincere form of compliment, even though it displays a profound ignorance of the human condition.

My point is, go on writing in whatever way suits you, regardless of the gender acceptability. Some people out there will like it, including some women.

Yes, your literary craft could use some work. However, you have overcome the biggest hurdle: being able to accept direct unblinking accurate criticism (e.g. from hiddenself). The most painful criticism of all is the stuff that's true. If you can take that, you have a future as a writer.

BTW: It isn't a matter of tact. If a critic is deliberately harsh, it doesn't hurt as much. You can always chalk that up to a mean reviewer. The stuff that really hurts is objective, accurate, plain-spoken, fair and constructive. The truth is brutal.

For myself, I don't read critiques of my writing unless my spouse is home and available to me. Sometimes I need a shoulder to cry on. Those are the times when I learn something really valuable about my writing and that's when it improves.

Use the volunteer editor service and/or share some of your writing with the rest of us before submitting it. We'll help.

thanks Janus, I'm glad someone else saw the humor in "writing like a man" and that someone else has gotten a comment like that, even though yours was for the "flip side."

Yes, I know my "literary craft" could use some work. Gosh, I just feel it's a compliment that you even called it that!

Thank you,

CS

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Annon feedback serves a purpose, it allows people who are uncomfortable with identifying themselves to comment on your works. Like so many other things that serve a clear purpose it is also abused by those who want to be nasty, ticky or rude, but haven't the guts to face a return volly. Perhaps the person who sent this really didn't enjoy it, if so thats his/her perogative. It's also possible, as a first time poster you are just getting bashed by one of those sad people who can't create anything on their own and thus find satisfaction is tearing down the efforts of others.

Writing like a man (or woman) is as subjective as the 1 to 5 vote scale our stories get. Some people think anything written by a woman should sound like a harlequin romance. If you are raw, forthright and graphic in your descriptions then you are obviously a man. Women are "softer" more interested in the build up, foreplay and underlying feelings. It's a generalization, and carries about the same creedence as "all black men are well hung" or "all gay women are femi-nazis".

The way you think and write are as personal as your fingerprint. If your style leans more towards stroke than romance it is not an indication of your gender, simply an indication of your style. For some of the better writers here Chicklet, Dp, Rf and Jigs for example; the style from story to story isn't even set. They have the skill and ability to move across genre's and styles and write good stories no matter what mood or idea has inspired them. They are able to switch POV's, interests, settings and a myriad of other things from story to story with apparent ease. I would defy anyone to read a selection of their works without the author being identified and try to determine the gender of the writer.

If you are happy with the results, if the story that came out on paper is the same one that was in your head, then thats all that really matters. Good votes or bad, good feedbacks or bad, the important thing is that you are satisifed with your work. Constructive fedback, even if it is negative deserves your attention. Feedback like this seems more aimed to hurt your feelings than help you as a writer and is probably best ignored.

-Colly

 

[OldnotDead]

I read this story a while ago and enjoyed it. Yes, it's a man's fantasy and so that makes it even more fun for me that a woman is writing it.

The most important message for you to receive from the comments here, is to keep writing and not let this first effort submitted, be the last. THAT would be a shame.

OldnotDead
http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=135309

 

[hiddenself]

But is my "writing" like a man's or is my "fantasy" like a man's? Is there a male style of writing?

I must disagree. I think there are many heterosexual females that tend to fantasize about being with another female, hence my fantasy.

Both.

"You write like a man" reflects a generalization. Colleen has it: like all generalizations, it's not a universal truth. However, women and men do tend to have somewhat different fantasies (example: fewer women than men would find hard-core rape or non-consent fantasies a turn-on).

The scene that I quoted was NOT the F/F part but rather having Honey (another woman) fuck Dan (her lover). That, I maintain, is what makes the fantasy a "male" fantasy. Couldn't a woman have it? Sure. But not many women would find it appealing (or indulge in it).

Also, women and men do tend to have different writing styles (again, not everyone, just on average). Today's PCness frowns upon such generalizations but I'm not afraid of them. My point is that the WAY the story is written makes it more likely to have come out from a male than a female hand. Does that mean that a woman could not write it? Of course she could.

But to contrast: Image does have a similar scene in her story. But that story has a decidedly feminine (perhaps bi) voice, IMO. A very different style and pathos in describing a more or less similar scene.

[Janus mentions something about whether a fantasy is socially "approved" or not for a particular gender. That's not the issue here. Although, in the same post, Janus also says that a heterosexual female friend doesn't like F/F scenes cause they "don't do it for her." Am confused. That doesn't sound like an approval issue but rather one of taste.]