Give me feedback please!

[KillerMuffin]

Selfish bastards.

I mean honestly. This place is really starting to look like the story feedback board where very few people give a rats ass about anything but their own work. Do these people ever open anyone else's threads but their own? Have these people ever offered a single opinion on anyone else's work?

We've got some wonderful people here doing their best to make an interesting and diverse board where "Give me feedback!" doesn't clutter up the air like so many baby birds screeching for feed. The more baby birds show up and whine for feedback the more these wonderful people fade into the background and go elsewhere.

Not so long ago a group of interested poets took over the Story Feedback board with fantastic discussions of poetry. The two most active advocates for discussion left. A few remain but they're probably not far behind in leaving. It's not fair that a few should carry the exciting part of the board for the many while a bunch of bloodsuckers show up and only demand feedback and never reciprocate.

Well, the poets got their own discussion board. Every poet who posts here should have the integrity to commit themselves to interaction and discussion instead of only fly-in-the-night demands to have the board pay attention to their own poetry. Such scavenging kills discussion and ruins a board.

Give me feedback! is the destruction of a good board.

Shame on you selfish bastards.

 

[perks]

mmmmm hmmmmmmmm...

 

[JUDO]

Good for you!

Thanks, KM.

Said as only you can.

Okay, editing because I have more to say.

KM loves putting the hammer down and I love her for it, but I think a lot of us are simply afraid.

A lot of us are beginning poets and think "Shit! No one wants my opinion. I don't know anything about poetry. I can't help this person, they're too good."

I feel that way, too, all the time, but guess what, just a different mind and set of eyes can often help the best artist.

"Hey Picasso! You missed a spot!"

What the hell. Just do it. Just go for it. Offer it up and start a discussion. Ask for help. Do whatever, but DO!

Okay, off the soapbox. I want to encourage all beginning poets to tell the older-more established poets "where they can put it." Please!

And they'll all thank you for it later.


- Judo

 

[Fairytat]

Well, since you said it outloud ...

I think that feedback discussions are actually important to the ebb and flow of poetry. We all need critiques and praise in order to bolster our flagging egos. On the other hand, KM brought up a good point that many of the poets don't offer the same type of consideration to others. I must ask though, what kind of discussions do you want started? What new information do you want to throw out to the masses? I just recently started reading the boards, I only read the story section, so I was not here for the poetry revolution, so I feel like I missed a large part of what makes this board what it is.

 

[perks]

if everyone who begged for a critique used their time to critique someone else's work instead.... I bet there would be a hell of a lot more critiques.

 

[KatPurrs]

I'm gettin' another av.....

Is it my imaginatioin or do the people who use avs that show their fine asses have the most spunk?

The hell with the tit shots.......I'm findin' me a nice tight, round ass then maybe I'll be just like KM and Perk! LOL

Love you two. Give us hell! It must be working....I just critiqued one of daughter's poems! YIKES!!!!!!!

Kat~

P.S. My excuse for being such a slug: I've never posted to a board in my life until I came to Lit last July. Thus, my hesitancy to feel comfortable with this process. But I'm getting there...bear with me. I'm slow to build confidence in myself.

 

[wkdclwn]

I am guilty

I am guilty to an extent. I read alot of work here, but I never give feedback. I have written for close to 10 years now, but I do not post anything here (as of yet). I read alot I like and I also see some that could use improvements. I guess the reason I do not respond to anything is b/c like I said I do not post anything here and I guess I feel the responses should be left to other poets here who do post. Sorry. I will try to respond when I feel I should do so. Great thread by the way KM. More people need to participate and I will try to change my ways. Take care. Later.

 

[71bruce8]

selfish bastards

Comment from a newcomer to Literotica, Bi-polar facade. + Lots of stories and poems, lots of categories and options - seems organized. - For the newcomer or beginning author the volume is also intimidating - does a new work just get lost in the archives? Also if you are a beginning author what weight does your opinion carry in the presence of experienced authors who have both a public presentation and probably knowledge of each others works? I think what we have here is an adult table/kids table problem. In the context of good poetic discussion the "look at me" postings are "selfish bastards" but in their own situations they see themselves as persons washed overboard looking for life support. Personally I seek out such postings as I identify with them and may be able to offer some insight or support. I am rewarded for this. Opinion here. There should be a seperate discussion board/chat room or what ever for serious discussion, possibly restricted access is required. Separate board for new offerings or attention seekers. I think that new authors are becoming confused and and are linking phrases like "Poetry discussion board" with their own works and then acting out on it. Need a separation here

 

[JUDO]

Yes and No

71B -

Yep, things do get lost. Yep, people are intimidated and don't know the ropes. Yep, there are very good reasons why artist need to promote their works. Yep, there are very good reasons to protest artists promoting their works.

But No, I don't think seperation is a solution. If anything, we need to learn to be more encouraging to those around us. Embrace them. Be more positive in our message to other poets.

All of us want feedback, the new, the old, the experienced, the virgins. We don't really care how qualified the owner of the feedback is. It's a new set of eyes. Our work effects someone and WHAM! They give us a gift.

It's validation of the artist and of them as a human being - "Yes, I do exist and my work effects someone." (*Insert big celebration here*)

Now, if I pee all over that gift and treat the person poorly who gives me this, then I'm an idiot. Personally, I've never seen it happen. That's not to say that it hasn't (I'm certain KM has a story or three from the trenches).

The point is this: no matter how knowledgeable or talented an artist is, they want to know how their work effects someone else, whoever they are.

Yes, it's difficult to tell an artist you didn't like something. Well, guess what? I don't like a lot of my own stuff. I did the best I could at the time and there it is.

Writing poetry is like any other endeavor. You do what you can to make your skills improve, but every time you write, the chance that something worthy will come of it is still less than 50 - 50. (Hence, all the rewriting - to improve the odds.)

If you read something, it makes you feel something. Just express it to the person who wrote it. It takes an effort and an awareness to do it, that's the real issue for me.

It's almost like I need a post-it on my computer saying, "Don't forget the feedback!" Right next to the one that says, "Don't forget to vote!"

So, please - don't be intimidated to give of yourself. The artists will appreciate every keystroke. And with a little luck, they'll give back to you.


- Judo

 

[Whispersecret]

Selfish bastardy can be learned

For a while I was giving feedback up the wazoo. I gave detailed feedback on all of the Heavy poems. I contributed to the threads in which you found up and coming poets and called attention to their work. I sent personal feedback to people via email. Finally, I'm sure some of you guessed I was one of the judges in the Olympics. I posted a critique on every Olympic poem.

However, I got little feedback in return. Maybe it's because of all the reasons that are mentioned above. Maybe I pissed people off with my nit-picking about grammar and mechanics, and so they were unwilling then to put for any effort to help me improve. Or maybe all my poetry is just dreck and no one wanted to tell me.

Whatever the reason was/is, it doesn't matter as much now as it did, although obviously it's still a sore point. My wannabe poetry phase has passed, and I'm completely immersed in my prose again. But I just wanted to make it clear that just because you give feedback doesn't mean you'll receive any.

 

[Unmasked Poet]

I hear you

Whisper, for any part I had in not providing significant feedback to you please accept my apology.
We did have a wonderful run for awhile though. There was room for pats on the back and more in-depth critique. While I was praised and hung in effigy daily I have to say thank you to everyone. I enjoyed most of it. Ultimately I decided the tension and fighting was not worth the effort.

Make no mistake, I wrote because I enjoyed it, and I was surprised as anyone when The new #1 took off and then all the other threads. I know my style is brusque (even Laurel mistook for a troll early on) I took the grumbling of elitist and exclusionary as sour grapes and encouraged my critics to start their own thread and activities. For me the camels’ back broke a few months ago between the second and third Olympic event. I took stock of all the threads I started. Most had become points of contention and division, as though U.P. was some great corporate entity swallowing up the lit board. Thank God for Redwave! That Commie/Socialist Bi-Sexual bastard kept me laughing and engaged for quite a while.

For this board to thrive it doesn’t take much, a few people who care about poetry from a technical and artistic stand point and a group of people who want to write it. With a percentage of those who want to improve. I still say there is room enough here to be all those things. No one has to get their panties or boxers in a bunch over a crit or a ranking. No one should feel excluded if they write from the heart and can only say nice job I liked it! Judo and others are creating a new style lit poetry board, which may well be just as exciting and interesting as the renaissance that Killer Muffin alluded to. The only reason that happened was because of the core members who cared and gave the board their best, not just in poetry but attention. The sense of community we had was overwhelming and infectious. Most of all we had fun and almost every thread and post reflected that. I have been on quite a few boards and I can say objectively that we were one the best poetry boards around. That fact was clearly reflected by the post activity and the thread views of outside people coming to the forum to read.

In keeping with the fine traditions of "Lit Poetry Events" I challenge Redwave to interview U.P. as sort of a swan song, I entered this board with a bang might as well semi-retire from it the same way. What do you say? Redrump? Think you can get it up one more time?

U.P.

 

[JUDO]

Put up your dukes!

UP -

Thanks for the nice mention, UP. I know that I will also not be able to keep up the pace that I've been doing for the past few weeks. But then, I'm having fun and trying to keep everything positive.

My goal is simple - to keep the board actively encouraging new and diverse talent. That's it, plain and simple.

As for hard critiques and mussed panties...yeah, that was a difficult time. I think there were lessons to learn and hopefully, we have all walked away with a new perspective on boards, critiquing and working together.

I, for one, wish for you to stick around and continue to jab at poets' abilities or lack there of from time-to-time. I know I could certainly use it.

And let me know if you feel like getting a hook or jab back, okay?

My best.
- Judo

 

[KillerMuffin]

I've heard that one before. The I'm not a good writer, I'm a new writer, I'm a bad writer, I'm a can't spell writer; no one will pay attention to me, I can't give critiques like {insert author here} can, what do I know, I feel ridiculous, I just can't do it!

Pick your reason, pick your excuse. It all centers on one single thing: the writer portion of the excusee.

See, we've all got this other side to us. The reader part. Most people here are long time readers. We started years ago and have built up the skill. It takes skill to read, it takes knowledge. The reader is the one who gives the critique, not the writer. The reader can say, "I didn't like it. It felt like Dr. Suess and that's just a turn off since I read it to my kid last night." The writer? Well s/he can quote Elements of Style and explain exactly why the semi-colon goes here or there. Valuable, but is it anywhere near as priceless as, "You know, that line didn't work for me, I had a lot of trouble understanding it. I like this line though, it was really cool and reminded me of why I love oral sex."

How much weight does your opinion hold? If you've got 1 post and it's your first critique and you've got one low ranked story, it holds just as much weight as my opinion holds with over 11 grand in posts and over 100 critiques and 50 stories.

Why? ALL READERS ARE ON EQUAL FOOTING. The only way you can make your critique worthless is by personally attacking the author or being intentionally rude.

Please, please, please, participate.

 

[Whispersecret]

I must enjoy the taste of sour grapes. Sorry about the rant. I suppose to some extent I cast myself in the role of the victim. God, I hate that in other people. I doubly hate it in myself. I suppose I could have outright asked people for feedback or started a thread for a specific poem of mine, but I didn't. Hindsight is 20/20.

UP, I cast no blame upon you. Obviously you had the weight of the board on your shoulders. The many threads you maintained took up a lot of time, and I never begrudged you that time because it energized the board.

Anyway, I'm going try and get past this. Right now I'm on a real roll with my novel and I don't want a silly matter like this to bog me down. Vive Erotic Romance!

See ya around, folks.

 

[Debbie]

Some very valid points have been made in this thread. I have been thinking about it since KM first posted.

I'm not the brightest light bulb in the world
but any feedback is helpful.

Echoing KM... please participate.
Your opinion, thoughts, feedback
will be warmly welcomed.

 

[Guest]

KM and Whispersecret

 

[JUDO]

Glad to see ya

ID -

Good to see a new post from you. Hope you stick around.


- Judo

 

[Star At Sunrise]

Welcome KillerMuffin.

Here is my critique of your poem "Selfish Bastards"

While I liked it a lot, it wasn't really structured like your normal poem. That, however, gave it a natural, heartfelt quality that is sorely lacking in other poems like this that I've read.

Here's my review.

"Selfish Bastards" By KillerMuffin

"I mean honestly. This place is really starting to look like the story feedback board where very few people give a rats ass about anything but their own work. Do these people ever open anyone else's threads but their own? Have these people ever offered a single opinion on anyone else's work?"
*First of all, this CLEARLY shows that I have no REAL idea how to use the "quote" feature effectively, which would make my critiques much easier to read. I'd reccommend for me to check the FAQ, or to PM a member who has used quotes to avoid further embarrassment on this issue.

"We've got some wonderful people here doing their best to make an interesting and diverse board where "Give me feedback!" doesn't clutter up the air like so many baby birds screeching for feed. The more baby birds show up and whine for feedback the more these wonderful people fade into the background and go elsewhere."
*I do like this verse, or stanza, if you will, but it lacks that basic "rhyming thing" that I like so much in so many other poems. Have you considered phrasing the above in a different way, perhaps in the way illustrated below?

EXAMPLE:
"The nest is thatched with words
'Give Us Feedback!' screeched the birds
But alas, they will not be bumped today
For all the wonderful people have faded away"

"Not so long ago a group of interested poets took over the Story Feedback board with fantastic discussions of poetry. The two most active advocates for discussion left. A few remain but they're probably not far behind in leaving. It's not fair that a few should carry the exciting part of the board for the many while a bunch of bloodsuckers show up and only demand feedback and never reciprocate."
*Bloodsuckers. Now there's some poetry imagery that I can relate to. Why isn't there more words like this in poems!? How about some explosions or fistfights? Come on, poets. It doesn't need to be all champagne and cocks now, does it?

"Well, the poets got their own discussion board. Every poet who posts here should have the integrity to commit themselves to interaction and discussion instead of only fly-in-the-night demands to have the board pay attention to their own poetry. Such scavenging kills discussion and ruins a board."
*Again, calling attention to how I do not know how to use the provided "quote" feature effectively, if indeed at all! This review would be SO much easier to read with bold text and dividing lines. Really, it isn't that hard.

"Give me feedback! is the destruction of a good board."
*There's something wrong here in the punctuation or the capitalization or something, but I'm not sure what.

"Shame on you selfish bastards."
*I would comment on this line, but I must go check my own thread right now, which to me is far more interesting than pretending I care about the poetry of others. Cheers!















Humor is funny!

 

[karmadog]

True

Well said KM and others.

When I first started reading the poetry posts and boards, UP was indeed basically moderating a great many forums. I remember there were a couple of educational threads that I found very useful.

The reason I rarely critique poetry is that I am a sad sack ignoramus. Yeah, I know, KM. I should do it anyway (I have dipped a toe by discussing good titles). I think like others, I don't do it because of ego. I don't want to look as ignorant as I am.

 

[JUDO]

Re: True

The reason I rarely critique poetry is that I am a sad sack ignoramus. Yeah, I know, KM. I should do it anyway (I have dipped a toe by discussing good titles). I think like others, I don't do it because of ego. I don't want to look as ignorant as I am.

Lose that, KD. You're not foolin' me. I know better. I've seen your posts, smartie. You don't need to know form and function to critique what touched you or didn't.

I do it. And who am I? The Queen of Sheba?

Note to everyone: Everyone needs to help others along the way. It helps the helped and the helpee.

By the way, a critique should never be all negative. Always look for what was good, even if it's just the fact that they attempted to make poetry. In the majority, we poets are not.