Gay soldier discharge

[bicuriousosaur]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050601/ap_on_re_us/gay_soldier

I know this isn't new, but, what do you guys feel about this BS?

 

[kbate]

I have never been a fan of "Don't ask, don't tell" but as long as that is the rule, and this soldier was well aware of the rule when he enlisted, the military must (by law) discharge him. I have always looked at this ruling as a way of saying "if you pretend you do not exist, we will pretend we do not hate you."

My preference (and that of most who would post in this forum) would be for the military and the government to simply admit that homosexuals do not in any way harm the readiness of the military and to allow open homosexuals to serve. This will eventually happen regardless of the wishes of the current administration or the current military leadership; a lower retention rate and low recruitment rates will eventually require a change in policy (or a selective service callup).

 

[Raimondin]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050601/ap_on_re_us/gay_soldier

I know this isn't new, but, what do you guys feel about this BS?

Good article Bicur. Just the same old homophobic military bullshit. Don't Ask, Don't Tell has always been the biggest joke in the military. These men and women could be fighting along side you, risking life & limb, and everything expected in the military, but OMG soon as they find out you're queer, you're done!
My father is a WWII veteran and the stories he has told me of all the sexual activies that went on in the ships, the barracks, is jaw-dropping! Officers and all included. Why do you think The Village People made that song "In The Navy"? The only "discharge" I see that counts is...well...you know...Ha!

 

[bush59]

That title

Had to look......conjured up images.....alluded to in last post.

What do I think?

It doesn't matter what I think.....but it will changa over time....may have a Gay President one day......openly gay....lol....lol

 

[DarkAurora]

Well, we have a vice-president with an openly gay daughter but the vice president is a raging homophobe, so does it still count?

Anyways, this story is not as bad as the man who served in the Air Force for 6 years and then was discharged for going on the gay dating show, "Boy Meets Boy" during his vacation.

 

[caution_ccw]

i have to comment on this.. I am not gay, I have never been with a man. I may have some curiousity but never have acted on them. As far as the gay rights, and everything. I think its wrong to discrminate against gay people. I have gay friends, and I support gay rights, because if the goverment discriminates against gay people, then that is taking away freedoms, freedoms that the military fought for such as the freedom of happiniess, and if you tell someone they cant be with someone of the same sex, and thats what makes them happy, then that infringes on that right. andyway thats how I see it....It makes a person happy, and it dose not affect anyone else. It dosent take away from anyone... Ok so there are people who dont want to see 2 men or 2 women together, but it dosent take anything away from them. We all see things we dont like every day of our life. No matter what it is, like clothes people wear to cars people drive, and its not agaisnt the law to wear clothes just because some people may not like it, but the person wearing it is happy with it and likes that shirt... same way with gay rights. If it makes a person happy then far be it from anyone to say its agasint the law to marry, or take rights away from them... And I am an army recruiter as well, and I think the dont ask dont tell thing is wrong, if there are gay men or women who want to support this country, then far be it from me to discriminate, agaisnt them.. But in that same aspect, I dont know why anyone who is gay would want to serve the United States after the way the US looks down on gays in the 1st place, its like a Jewish person in the SS.. Ok so that was a bad comparrission..but it gets my point out there... But in the event a gay man or woman would want to join the army and support the US, and fight for the rights that men and women have been fighting for, since this country had a military, and defend it for you and I, then I say let them, and I support that, sexuaility should not be a legal issue, or a thing or morals, another way I look at it like this.. They say that its morally wrong, and that its a sin, God looks down on that lifestyle, and I say this... God loved his children, and accpeted them for what they were, I do not think God would ever turn his back because someone was Gay, I think he would love them all the same..I think he would be more accepting of a gay man or gay woman , who was happy then to someone who was out there murdering, raping, and stealing.. I think God is accepting of gay people. I think its the clergy, and people with in that want everyone to think its a sin, I dont think its Gods word at all. Its the words of of PEOPLE, and not God who want us to think its immoral, and a sin...Same way with legal issue, again, whos to blame, PEOPLE. As I said before I support the gay community, I support my gay friends, and I support anyone who lives the lifestyle. Those who do not support and try to take rights away, are scared. People are scared of the unknowen, they dont know anything about being gay, they fear it because they dont know, they fear it becasue its different and they dont know any different. They fear what other people will think, they fear what people will think about them if they do support it, so it has to do with there image as well.. Image is everything.. Go to church sit in the back pew, look around at all the 2 faced people sitting in that church, thats why I dont go to church, to many 2 faced people. but are there because it looks good for them, I have more religion in my pinkie finger then half of them have in there entire body...As I said I have gay friends, and my gay friends are the nicest people and would give you the shirt off there back, or the last dollar in there wallet. Nicer thern a lot of straihgt people I know..I am straight. And I talk bad about them... Well I have taken up enough time but in closing I would like to say... In the pledge of alligence it says...... One Nation under god... not one straight nation,..I say to all the gay men and women who read this, be happy, be happy who you are, and how you live your life. Also edeucate people let them know your story, and be heard.. Peace.

 

[DarkAurora]

i have to comment on this.. I am not gay, I have never been with a man. I may have some curiousity but never have acted on them. As far as the gay rights, and everything. I think its wrong to discrminate against gay people. I have gay friends, and I support gay rights, because if the goverment discriminates against gay people, then that is taking away freedoms, freedoms that the military fought for such as the freedom of happiniess, and if you tell someone they cant be with someone of the same sex, and thats what makes them happy, then that infringes on that right. andyway thats how I see it....It makes a person happy, and it dose not affect anyone else. It dosent take away from anyone... Ok so there are people who dont want to see 2 men or 2 women together, but it dosent take anything away from them. We all see things we dont like every day of our life. No matter what it is, like clothes people wear to cars people drive, and its not agaisnt the law to wear clothes just because some people may not like it, but the person wearing it is happy with it and likes that shirt... same way with gay rights. If it makes a person happy then far be it from anyone to say its agasint the law to marry, or take rights away from them... And I am an army recruiter as well, and I think the dont ask dont tell thing is wrong, if there are gay men or women who want to support this country, then far be it from me to discriminate, agaisnt them.. But in that same aspect, I dont know why anyone who is gay would want to serve the United States after the way the US looks down on gays in the 1st place, its like a Jewish person in the SS.. Ok so that was a bad comparrission..but it gets my point out there... But in the event a gay man or woman would want to join the army and support the US, and fight for the rights that men and women have been fighting for, since this country had a military, and defend it for you and I, then I say let them, and I support that, sexuaility should not be a legal issue, or a thing or morals, another way I look at it like this.. They say that its morally wrong, and that its a sin, God looks down on that lifestyle, and I say this... God loved his children, and accpeted them for what they were, I do not think God would ever turn his back because someone was Gay, I think he would love them all the same..I think he would be more accepting of a gay man or gay woman , who was happy then to someone who was out there murdering, raping, and stealing.. I think God is accepting of gay people. I think its the clergy, and people with in that want everyone to think its a sin, I dont think its Gods word at all. Its the words of of PEOPLE, and not God who want us to think its immoral, and a sin...Same way with legal issue, again, whos to blame, PEOPLE. As I said before I support the gay community, I support my gay friends, and I support anyone who lives the lifestyle. Those who do not support and try to take rights away, are scared. People are scared of the unknowen, they dont know anything about being gay, they fear it because they dont know, they fear it becasue its different and they dont know any different. They fear what other people will think, they fear what people will think about them if they do support it, so it has to do with there image as well.. Image is everything.. Go to church sit in the back pew, look around at all the 2 faced people sitting in that church, thats why I dont go to church, to many 2 faced people. but are there because it looks good for them, I have more religion in my pinkie finger then half of them have in there entire body...As I said I have gay friends, and my gay friends are the nicest people and would give you the shirt off there back, or the last dollar in there wallet. Nicer thern a lot of straihgt people I know..I am straight. And I talk bad about them... Well I have taken up enough time but in closing I would like to say... In the pledge of alligence it says...... One Nation under god... not one straight nation,..I say to all the gay men and women who read this, be happy, be happy who you are, and how you live your life. Also edeucate people let them know your story, and be heard.. Peace.

Wow, I wish there more straight people out there who think like you do. I'm a gay man who was going to serve in the military until I learned about the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy. Even though this country may not give a lot of legal rights to gay people, there are countries out there in this day and age who jail you or have you killed just for being gay. One thing this country does do nice for gay people is that you can become a refugee here based upon your sexuality if your sexuality puts you in danger in your country. I just pray to God that with all these laws being passed trying to ban gay marriage and gay adoption, that no one tries to pass laws banning people from becoming refugees solely upon thier sexuality.

 

[John Doe]

Wow, I wish there more straight people out there who think like you do.

I wish he'd use a fucking paragraph break once in a while.

Anyway, while I believe the Military's anti-gay policies have been out of date for years, while they are still in place they have to be enforced.

What most people don't know is that the anti-gay policy isn't controlled by the Military, but its civilian leaders, one of the few military policies that still is. I think you'd also be surprised by the number of military personnel who would agree that this needs to be changed because, by all the reports (like PERSEREC for example), empirical evidence, and basic logic, nothing about a person's sexual orientation affects morale, unit cohesion, or completing the mission.

 

[deezire1900]

I wonder how many people would claim to be gay if there was a draft?

 

[John Doe]

I wonder how many people would claim to be gay if there was a draft?

People already do that to get out of the Military.

 

[onceburned]

I have never been a fan of "Don't ask, don't tell" but as long as that is the rule, and this soldier was well aware of the rule when he enlisted, the military must (by law) discharge him.

"Don't ask, don't tell" is far from ideal but it is an improvement over the previous policy of ferreting out gays and lesbians.

For the cynical among us, it is interesting to note that the U.S. military is more tolerant of gays and lesbians during war time.

As the United States military continues to wage war in Iraq and Afghanistan, discharges of lesbian and gay military personnel plummeted 17% in FY2003, according to a new report from Servicemembers Legal Defense Network (SLDN).

Conduct Unbecoming, an annual review of the military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" law, finds that gay-related discharges fell to 787 last year, down from 906 in 2002. The 2003 figures mark a 39% decrease in discharges since 2001, the year before current conflicts in the Middle East began. The number also represents the fewest gay discharges since 1995.

http://www.sldn.org/templates/law/record.html?section=22&record=1411

 

[Matthieub23]

Hmmmm???

I'm kinda thinking the Sarge wanted out of the Army and out of the closet was his ticket out. He knew this would be the end result of blabbing.
If he wasn't looking to leave, you gotta question his judgements.
Pretty big Oooopps! if he didn't mean it?
Double vet here, and I finagled my way out of the USMC with an honorable discharge. Can be done, gotta be creative and knowledgible.
Hate this war, but ya gotta support the troops.
MJB

 

[deezire1900]

My roomie put one of those yellow magnetic ribbons on my truck, I almost had a heart attack. I hate those things, but I couldn't take it off because I thought people would notice that I did. I was dead locked, between not wanting to take my truck anywhere and not wanting to offend anyone by removing it.

So STUPID!

I got around it by sticking it on my sisters car. No guilt.

I do support the men and women that are fighting, I would mortgage my home to buy them all plane tickets to come home...as many of us would. But I DO NOT support the war.

A friend of mine is in the Navy, that girl gets more action that any girl I know. SHe said the lesbian population is huge.

 

[onceburned]

I'm kinda thinking the Sarge wanted out of the Army and out of the closet was his ticket out. He knew this would be the end result of blabbing.
If he wasn't looking to leave, you gotta question his judgements.

wellll.... not necessarily. The man has a Purple Heart. If he had outed himself earlier, he just would have been one more statistic. But as it was, his discharge rated a news story which casts the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy in a bad light. He may have made a calculated self-sacrifice.

Hate this war, but ya gotta support the troops.

Well, yes. There is an organization in my town which pays the postage on any package that a family sends to a service member in Iraq. I think that is a very good way of actually supporting the troops. I am sure there are others.

 

[deezire1900]

Why are we at war again?

Oh yeah, lies from our great leader.


My step mom works at the VA, she says so my soilders are coming home from Irag in really bad shape. She says they see things they don't even have names for. Skin conditions that won't heal....that is the scariest for her.

 

[John Doe]

I'm kinda thinking the Sarge wanted out of the Army and out of the closet was his ticket out. He knew this would be the end result of blabbing.
If he wasn't looking to leave, you gotta question his judgements.
Pretty big Oooopps! if he didn't mean it?
Double vet here, and I finagled my way out of the USMC with an honorable discharge. Can be done, gotta be creative and knowledgible.
Hate this war, but ya gotta support the troops.
MJB

You can't really support someone if you oppose what they're doing.

 

[John Doe]

Why are we at war again?

Oh yeah, lies from our great leader..

Prove it.

My step mom works at the VA, she says so my soilders are coming home from Irag in really bad shape. She says they see things they don't even have names for. Skin conditions that won't heal....that is the scariest for her.

War is hell. Hooda thunkit? Oh yeah, the Military. Go figure.

 

[John Doe]

I do support the men and women that are fighting, I would mortgage my home to buy them all plane tickets to come home...as many of us would. But I DO NOT support the war.

I think what you mean is you oppose the battle in Iraq, instead of simply not supporting it. If so, then you have no idea what it's about or what we're doing there.

 

[bicuriousosaur]

stup,

Not alot of people on this forum are fans of George W Bush.

 

[John Doe]

stup,

Not alot of people on this forum are fans of George W Bush.

Not a lot of people on this forum know shit about shit, although that's true of most forums.

But that's beside the point, as what I've been saying has little to do with Pres. Bush or local politics. and actually what I've been saying is that these issues in and of themselves also have little do with Bush or local politics.

 

[DarkAurora]

I think what Deezire meant was that she supports the troops for putting thier lives on the line for this country but she doesn't support Bush's decision to go to war. This war is still better though than the Vietnam War. At least we got Saddam out of office. I think the only reason we haven't caught Osama is becuase of his ties to the Saddam Royal Family.

 

[John Doe]

I think what Deezire meant was that she supports the troops for putting thier lives on the line for this country but she doesn't support Bush's decision to go to war.

Yes I know. My point still stands.

This war is still better though than the Vietnam War. At least we got Saddam out of office. I think the only reason we haven't caught Osama is becuase of his ties to the Saddam Royal Family.

Depends on what you mean by better. Militarily we're doing about as well, perhaps even better than we did during some periods of Vietnam. Politically and in the court of public opinion however, we seem to be doing almost worse, especially considering that the Vietnam War had a lot of support in the beginning.

One similar situation a lot of people forget about though is Somalia, which is more closely comparable based on several factors. The terrain is the most obvious, urban/desert. The Vietnam War did see some urban warfare, but Iraq is almost exclusively so.

 

[theoneadd2]

The rule is there to keep gay’s and lesbian safe from other troops.
Here’s how I see it. If you go in to the army one of the big points is that it's one big team everyone is the same that all are one or something like that. This is done so that each man and woman will watch over and protect each other. But if you are gay there are men and women in the army who think you’re just as bad as the men who flew the planes on 9/11. These men and woman would shot you in your back before that watched your back. The government knows this so they came up with "Don't ask Don't tell" They don't want there on men and woman kill each other and then having to explain why it happen. This way is easier not better but easier.

 

[bvoltaire]

i agree that gays should have every right to fight....

but i have to say that the title of this thread is a punchline waiting to happen

 

[Raimondin]

i agree that gays should have every right to fight....

but i have to say that the title of this thread is a punchline waiting to happen

Too funny. Although I didn't write this thread I agree about the "punchline waiting to happen." I did allude to that in my post above and I'm glad I'm not the only one with a sense a humor. Hmm. Although I'm gay, your "Lit Girls" list in your sig. line is interesting and gives me an idea. "My Lit. guys, dudes, hunks", etc. etc....


Thanks for posting here