gay marriage: do you want it?

[silverwhisper]

since metrodance felt the conversation was a bit lacking...

is gay marriage something you want? is marriage a hetero-centric conceit? something else?

apologies beforehand if i've left out some glaringly obvious poll option, btw.

ed

 

[onceburned]

Marriage would confer financial and legal rights that are routinely given to heterosexual couples. Those rights are considered normal, and are expected. So it is simply a matter of fairness.

 

[bisexplicit]

Just a little bit on a tangent, but not completely unrelated...
It annoys me when people are supposedly in support of gay rights, but still think that marriage is something that should only be allowed for heterosexual couples - and that gay couples should have their own thing (civil union or whatever). "Seperate but equal." People are stupid.

 

[Ricwilly]

I'm for it. If someone doesn't believe in gay marriage, they shouldn't marry a gay person. Most of the worlds big controversies could be solved if people would just mind thar own business.
On a related note, I don't get it when people say gay marriage would hurt marriage as a whole, look at the divorce rate.LOL.

 

[emap]

Any two people who are madly in love should be allowed to marry. If you take away the whole religious thing, most men are against gay men because they are afraid of receiving anal, or don't want to alienate their friends and family.

Toss in the religion aspect and there you have the reason for anti gay marriage. It's very sad when the priests forget the whole treat others as you would have them treat you and the understanding of god thing.

 

[onceburned]

It annoys me when people are supposedly in support of gay rights, but still think that marriage is something that should only be allowed for heterosexual couples - and that gay couples should have their own thing (civil union or whatever). "Seperate but equal."

I think that everyone should get civil unions. And if a couple wants to get married, they can go to their church, temple, mosque etc to recieve that blessing.

Government has no business messing with marriage, which is religious in its foundation. Let's separate Church and State.

 

[onceburned]

most men are against gay men because they are afraid of receiving anal, or don't want to alienate their friends and family.

I am not sure about that. Maybe its not fear of receiving anal so much as fear of the social stigma of receiving anal i.e. being less than a man, effeminate, vulnerable.

If someone doesn't believe in gay marriage, they shouldn't marry a gay person.

Bravo!

 

[kbate]

I don't particularly care about the issue of gay marriage, while nice it would give us nothing we don't already have the means of obtaining.

I do care about the issue of anti-gay discrimination, which is exactly what anti-gay marriage laws and constitutional amendments legalise.

I do not want any special right or privelege because I am gay. I only want to not have any less privelege than I would have if were I heterosexual.

 

[silverwhisper]

i voted for yes & no.

while i respect that some will view marriage as a hetero claptrap, i don't believe that's exactly a universal view. i want it therefore for those who do.

i will never understand any of the schmucks who proclaim that marriage requires "defending" WRT gay marriage. the divorce rate's insane and anybody remember britney spears's first marriage, which lasted less than a week? where were all those "marriage must be defended" folk when that happened, hm?

that said, b/c it's such a polarizing issue, i do want it done in a manner that doesn't cause a backlash. change comes slowly. if it comes too quickly, i fear increases in gay-bashing and other gay-hostile legislation.

ed

 

[SophiaY]

If a religious group doesn’t wish to allow marriages to be performed within their church, fine. However, the State should be impartial as to gender – issuing marriage licenses and allowing same-sex couples to have a judge officiate over a wedding.
We are citizens, we pay taxes, we should have the same rights, and obligations, as others.

It really is that simple.

 

[Ricwilly]

i voted for yes & no.

while i respect that some will view marriage as a hetero claptrap, i don't believe that's exactly a universal view. i want it therefore for those who do.

i will never understand any of the schmucks who proclaim that marriage requires "defending" WRT gay marriage. the divorce rate's insane and anybody remember britney spears's first marriage, which lasted less than a week? where were all those "marriage must be defended" folk when that happened, hm?

that said, b/c it's such a polarizing issue, i do want it done in a manner that doesn't cause a backlash. change comes slowly. if it comes too quickly, i fear increases in gay-bashing and other gay-hostile legislation.

ed

ed, I agree with the first part, gotta disagree that change must be slow. I figure thars gonna be backlash no matter what. Thats what always happens with major change, abolishing slavery for example. Thars always some people who gotta be dragged kickin and screamin into change, called growin pains. jmo.

 

[silverwhisper]

i respect that, but social conservatives have been making this a line in the sand for altogether too long for this to end well if done quickly IMHO.

do you know what scares me? the prospect that i wake up tomorrow and some supreme court case i never heard of was decided this morning and at the federal level forces all 50 states to recognize gay marriage.

it scares me b/c if that happens, the social conservatives who have invested so much time, energy, money and hatred to opposing gay marriage will buy the next elections and absolutely guarantee a return to the stone age of social consciousness. i fear very much just what that could look like.

i'm sorry, but as much as i think gay marriage should be just as valid as my own in every state in the land, no single civil right trumps all others, perhaps excepting the right to vote.

ed

 

[Ricwilly]

i respect that, but social conservatives have been making this a line in the sand for altogether too long for this to end well if done quickly IMHO.

do you know what scares me? the prospect that i wake up tomorrow and some supreme court case i never heard of was decided this morning and at the federal level forces all 50 states to recognize gay marriage.

it scares me b/c if that happens, the social conservatives who have invested so much time, energy, money and hatred to opposing gay marriage will buy the next elections and absolutely guarantee a return to the stone age of social consciousness. i fear very much just what that could look like.

i'm sorry, but as much as i think gay marriage should be just as valid as my own in every state in the land, no single civil right trumps all others, perhaps excepting the right to vote.

ed

Ya, I take your point. Look at what happened with the don't ask don't tell issue. More people have been discharged for bein gay than before. I was in the service before that and thar were some obvious gay folks thar and no one paid any attention to em. The don't ask don't tell just made the bigots focus lol.
I tend to be a knee jerk liberal, no one to the left of me.

 

[silverwhisper]

you were in the service? what branch? my brother-in-law is a marine reservist. i think of myself as a moderate liberal. :>

ed

 

[Ricwilly]

you were in the service? what branch? my brother-in-law is a marine reservist. i think of myself as a moderate liberal. :>

ed

I was regular army for a couple years back in the early eighties, got booted for smokin dope, (was stationed in Hawaii). My brother just recently retired from the marine corp. He was always really straight laced. A while back he told me if one of his children turned out to be gay, he would still love em and accept em, blew me away. I didn't know he was so liberal. Makes me proud. yup.

 

[silverwhisper]

wow. i mean, wow.

ed

 

[onceburned]

I was in the Navy for four years and found that the stereotype of military people to be just that - a stereotype. I was constantly surprised to find how broad-minded folks were, even if there was a need to keep things quiet.

 

[none2_none2]

I like the expression: "We don't want special rights, we want the same rights."

I just hope if/when those rights are ever granted, that we don't have a lot in the gay community wanting them all of a sudden "customized". If that becomes the case, then we really are asking for special rights...

With rights also come responsibilities. I mention this because I was annoyed about a story on NPR a few weeks ago where a gay male couple whom got a civil union or something, then had it terminated (they are still together). The one partner was upset because of the legal setup for inheritance. He wanted everything to go to his children. Str8 couples with kids/step-kids go through this all the time. It seemed such a sham to be handed similar rights, then reject them because they weren't customized to your liking. To me that is asking for "special" rights.

 

[Ricwilly]

Heard someone say gays oughta be able to get married, no reason they shouldna be allowed to be as miserable as everbody else, just kiddin.

 

[sweetsyn]

I just voted on this topic. I see nothing wrong with gay marriage, if two people love each other it is noone else's business. It really bothers me that so many of the 'hetero' community that oppose it have no respect for the institution of marriage anyway, if they did there wouldn't be so many having affairs or just up and leaving a marriage at the first sign of trouble.
INTERESTING FACT: marriage is the #1 leading cause of divorce.

 

[Jagged]

The State should get out of the marriage business....for everyone.

The state should get out of the marriage business. Most religions don't believe your married in a civil service. The church is the real marriage to many. So I believe if this is all to get benifits and make it so your partner can make medical decisions for example it should be some paperwork you file with the state. How to prove it is a real "marriage" is difficult. Organized religion documents such things so it is easy to bring to the clerk at the government office. How to handle a gay union well I don't know.......but it is a start. Being a conservative I believe that this is best. The state shouldn't be involved in your relationships, but I understand there is a need to prevent fraud.

 

[none2_none2]

I agree with all of what you said. I might modify a small bit though. The bottom line is to make the lives of famlies as non-complicated as possible. Not all families are str8, not all of them are gay. In fact some aren't even sexual. My parents seperated before I was born, and divorced when I was two. My home in rural Kansas consisted of my grandparents and my mother -- my grandpa died when I was seven.

I made a big mistake of leaving My assets with my grandma's name on them so that she could get to whatever she needed to easily. We had set things up that way since I was 14. (It was my fault, I just didn't want to face the fact that she wasn't always going to be able to live without more care.) As a result it was a nightmare when in her mid-ninenties a nursing home care was necessary. (She died just three months before her 100th birthday [almost 2 years ago]).

Because my mother was an adult, they didn't consider her either. As a result the estate is a mess. It's a much longer story, but my point isn't a long story. Rather, that even in adulthood our family really was the 3 of us, ( me living away to find good work and help them out). Perhaps if that would have been recognized, I might have been able to salvage more of the estate for my mother who needs care now.

I suppose people could take abuse such laws, but I think eventually somehow we need this. Love takes many forms sexual love is just one form, and gay/str8 thing is just a subset of that. There are probably more examples of extended families than mine was. I know, for instance, that my great great grandmother had a brother who was an old batch who lived with others until he died of old age (sometime between the 30's and the 50's). I would like to think that he must have been part of someone's family. (I have no idea whether he was gay or str8 or celebate, but it really shouldn't matter.) I do know that he doesn't even have a headstone. (FYI, I'm not advocating the government pay for everybody's headstone, but I wonder if the ones who kept him considered him family.) I have vowed that one day, somehow
I will make sure he gets a stone. I guess want to because it seems like the thing to do and because I wonder what will happen to me when its my time if I'm in a situaion where I'm considered without a family.

The state should get out of the marriage business. Most religions don't believe your married in a civil service. The church is the real marriage to many. So I believe if this is all to get benifits and make it so your partner can make medical decisions for example it should be some paperwork you file with the state. How to prove it is a real "marriage" is difficult. Organized religion documents such things so it is easy to bring to the clerk at the government office. How to handle a gay union well I don't know.......but it is a start. Being a conservative I believe that this is best. The state shouldn't be involved in your relationships, but I understand there is a need to prevent fraud.

 

[Netzach]

I think that it would be a good thing.

I have a lot of *personal* problems with marriage. It was very hard for me to come to a point where I wanted to be married, because I'd never seen a good marriage modeled more than once, and it wasn't in my family.

Then all my queer friends started buying rings and stuff, legal or not, and I realized that it was up to people like me, people like us, to remake the institution in a way that's relevant for us. I'd like to see everyone have the opportunity to make marriage work for them.

 

[isthisdesire]

Ricwilly... you took the words right out of my mouth. over and over again.

I think that it would be a good thing.

I have a lot of *personal* problems with marriage. It was very hard for me to come to a point where I wanted to be married, because I'd never seen a good marriage modeled more than once, and it wasn't in my family.

Then all my queer friends started buying rings and stuff, legal or not, and I realized that it was up to people like me, people like us, to remake the institution in a way that's relevant for us. I'd like to see everyone have the opportunity to make marriage work for them.

this is so beautiful because I'm feeling that same kind of skepticism about marriage. my parents' isn't great and all around me I'm witnessing people leaving, people being abused... just in general terrible examples of marriage. it's good to hear that there is TRUE love and marriage in the gay community. I love it.

 

[Ricwilly]

Ricwilly... you took the words right out of my mouth. over and over again.
Thats a song by Meat Loaf, is it me or is that guy a musical genius?