FYI for Lit authors: What is COPA and how does it affect Lit?

[KillerMuffin]

COPA, or the Children's Online Protection Act is the primary reason why www.adult-ebooks.com isn't online and why allextreme.com didn't get updated for about 9 months. It's also why some expensive programming changes don't happen here.

Essentially, it's legislation Congress passed back in, oh 2000 I believe. It was immediately taken to court and has carried an injunction since then.

What this law mandates is that any US site carrying commercial adult content (like Literotica) must utilize a membership system where all users verify age through a credit card.

If Literotica were to go behind AVS, the site would be gone. It relies entirely on advertising to carry the expensive bandwith, server, and archival costs. AVS--adult verification system--services do not permit advertising. Additionally, the number of hits will be reduced enough to cut into advertising revenue. Therefore, it's highly likely that Literotica will cease to exist or will be greatly reduced in size.

The intent is to keep children from accessing pornography. The end result is that it will keep everyone who isn't willing to pay a membership fee from accessing this site.

In June the Supreme Court ruled that a portion of COPA was constitutional. I forgot which part. It sent it back down to the appellate court for review. The injunction remains in place. How long this reprieve lasts is anyone's guess. It all depends on how long it takes the courts to make a ruling for or against COPA and then for the ACLU to take COPA back to the Supreme Court to see if they'll hear it.

 

[P. B. Walker]

great info... thanks for keeping us informed. let's pray it never fully passes.

- PBW

 

[christo]

Maybe it's time for Laurel and Manu to move and set up shop in a country with less restrictive censorship laws. Like Afghanistan, maybe?

With the collapse of so many dot.coms, a law like this would absolutely cripple the Internet. I don't mean to sound facetious, but with the demise of so many 'Net-based companies, porn is an even bigger driver of Internet traffic. If you can't go on-line to get your fix of filth, what's the point of having an internet connection? I mean, I surf the Net for much more than pornography, but looking at nude women does have its appeal, and I indulge from time to time.

It would be very difficult politically for anyone to support this bill. Conservatives probably don't relish the idea of Democrats labeling them "Taliban-lite" because they banned Maxim.com.

The Bill of Rights is pretty clear about Freedom of Speech. It doesn't say, "The people shall have to right to express themselves, so long as the people have a valid major credit card".

The biggest problem the courts would have is deciding what sites would require this registration. Sites with hard-core sex? Playboy.com? Sports Illustrated when they have pictures of female Olympic swimmers? Salon.com when they post a story about prostitutes? Amazon.com when they sell romance novels chock full of explict sex?

I hope this gets settled quickly, once and for all. It's been hanging out there for a long time, probably in the hopes that the liberal members of the Supreme Court will decide to retire. Hang in there, Ruth Bader-Ginsberg! You'd hate retirement, you know it!

The sad thing is, there is stuff on the 'Net that kids shouldn't see, and it's not hard to keep kids away from it. Monitor their Internet activity. Use blocking software. Be a parent, for crying out loud. Don't let Big Brother tell you what you can or can't read or view.

 

[wildsweetone]

KM thanks for the information. I'd not really bothered with looking into this COPA problem before, partly because it's really a USA based legal battle, and I assumed it wouldn't affect me and partly because I'd not been that interested before. I'm glad you've explained it in such plain english, thanks.

Just a question... Is it over 18 year olds who are legally allowed to look at pornography online?

 

[SexyChele]

Thanks for the update, KM. On a somewhat ironic note - if kids come here, at least they are reading. Something not many teens are known for. Besides, how can a place like Lit compete with places like Huns or WetCircle, where you can access visual porn for free?

Sometimes things get truly fucked up!

 

[The_old_man]

Inpractice, all that COPA will accomplish is to have the teens "borrowing" thier parents cards(if they don't have thier own). Many parents of teens have not properly protected the card numbers, the children have the numbers and use them.

 

[ANiceGuy]

As a website operator I know kids used their parents cards and faked their age.

I used to run several amateur girls websites. I did the pages and the girls posed for the pics. They also did all their own email althouth I had to help them make sure they were legal like when a person writing them said they were underage the girls had to not write them any more and forbid the "kids" to enter or write again. (Like that would really stop them.) Sometimes we were able to trace back who the account was if they fessed up in chats. Chats had personal info linked to the name. Then we terminated the account.

There was a large amount of kids using their parents cards. The parents would give the kids their cards and tell them to buy some jeans. That night the kids would use the card number to get inside the adult sites. I had lots of mad parents (mad at the girl usually) because thier kids had been watching our site for several months. Like how often did the parents review their cards? We usually refunded back three months and they were satisfied.

Sometimes the person claiming to be a parent was probably some one not wanting to pay and trying to scam us. We had to error on the side of losing money rather than do something not legal.

I personally know several kids who have their own credit cards that their parents never review. Just give them a spending limit.

One time We had a woman cuss out the girl on the site for stealing her man. Like Annette reached in his wallet and pulled out his card??? Yeah right. She threatened to call the police and have us arrested if we let him view the site one more time. She never did fess up to what guy we should ban???

All requiring cards will do is drive the little guys out and make the adult net all big companies that can afford a suite of lawyers. Instead of a pretty girl answering personal mail a computer will generate standard erotic replies and the videos will be computer generated too. The stories will be.... well not written by you or me but by you guessed it a cumputer!!!!.

If the site was a free site like Literotica it could do a lot more then a pay one ( I ran several free sites for each pay site to help generate traffic) so I know the future if every one goes pay.

 

[Guest]

COPA-PMRC

Why does this COPA ruling remind me of the failed PMRC group Tipper Gore rallied back in the late '80s ? I know, it's yet another uninformed group looking out for our best interests since we obviously don't have the capacity to do so for our selves.....Back in the US, back in the US, back in the USSR.......

 

[its Leslie]

Well meaning efforts by well meaning persons in a futile gesture at best.

If tomorrow COPA killed Lit, I would be annoyed, but then I would just wait for it to show up elsewhere.

And there will be an elsewhere.

It's to late to re think the Net.

For good or bad it's just to late.

I merely need a method to get online.
And everytime they put up a barrier, someone will just punch a hole in it.

The only defense for the young, is the parent. Only the parent is truely able to do anything. Big brother just doesn't have what it takes.

With regards to Lit, hmmm what exactly constitutes their level of responsibility?

You can't post a story or literary work here that goes below 18. Because that is not desirable.
But you need only use any of the many ads/links on Lit to end up on a site where anything goes (well at least it sure looks that way).
As it goes, I have seen a great many extended sites. No kiddie sex to my knowledge (preteen in my definition), but geeese the stuff that's out there. Some of humanity have really exotic tastes.

Is Lit not supporting everything by virtue of them being a portal to the rest of the web?. Just wondering.

 

[mlyn]

COPA?

I worked for 23 yrs with children as a nurse, so I am all for protecting children.

But I don't have any children myself. If I did, my child would not their own television, and certainly not a computer in their room. I would be checking to see where they were visiting, and all the stuff my parents did to make sure I did the right thing.

In the USA, which is attempting to rule the WORLD wide web, parents have children, then expect the gov't to keep them safe, but never ever teach them about sex- which would make them the safest of all!

My fiance and I tried to run an adult site, geared around shaving, smooth lifestyle, hence Smooth Tales was born. But after three years of headaches, he said screw it!

Anyway, enough on that. Time will tell if things are to change or not.

 

[Guest]

ANiceGuy said:

I had lots of mad parents (mad at the girl usually) because thier kids had been watching our site for several months. Like how often did the parents review their cards? We usually refunded back three months and they were satisfied.

I used to work at a record store when the first 'Parental Advisory' labels came out. (BTW fallen5of7, the PMRC achieved the only thing they ever asked for: labling). Anyhow, for the most part, we were really good about asking kids if their parents would be OK with them buying labeled music, but, one day, this woman came in bitching because her kid had come home with an NWA album. She said that her son was nine years old. To be truthful, I wouldn't want (if I had a kid) my youngster listening to that either. Anyhow, she was way up in my face, but I explained to her that the labeling was strictly to warn the parents about what their kids were listening to--there was (and is) no age requirement to purchase labeled product. I offered her a store credit for the CD under HER name. Would you believe that she was pissed off that I didn't give store credit in her boy's name? She couldn't be bothered to pay attention herself to what her son bought, she wanted us to do it for her. That, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with society today. Not the availability of adult material, but the unwillingness of parents to monitor, and hold their kids responsible for, what their kids view.

k-dog

 

[its Leslie]

With just one child I don't think I am a pro at raising kids.

But then I have seen so many kids that have been raised by others.
Everything from old friends, to young unwed mothers (that still want to hang out on the street even if it means with a stroller).

I want to shout and scream at them (but one lesson I learned fast was never TELL anyone how to raise THEIR kids).

So what are we to do.

I have lifestyle choices that I know would likely offend many. But I have seen so many kids that have been effectively ruined by people that fit "the popular mold" too.

Government can't help these kids.

So what if Johnny can watch a man shoot his load into the face of a girl dressed as a under age school girl.
Odds are he is a lot more screwed up from things he has already been subjected to from his own home life.

And the government will never be able to fix those problems.

 

[fjohn56]

COPA

I personally think that it is ridiculous that i should have to monitor my neighbors kids to see that they aren't trying to get onto any adult site. THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE THEIR PARENTS JOB, not mine. I also resent the fact that I cannot lookat, or read certain things at the library(like this site) without Security breathing down my neck and my internet privileges suspended for the day, week month(s), etc. I wish that I could bring suit against the library to change the policy, but then they would try to curtail me in some other way.


John

 

[its Leslie]

I sure hope the COPA people don't start talking to the Greek Government, otherwise COPA will end up trying to control porn, by making it illegal to know a woman electronically.

Well that's about how insane the Greek Government is, and how much sense COPA makes at any rate.

 

[tenyari]

This seems to be a good resource on this:
http://www.epic.org/free_speech/copa/


From the Supreme Court ruling here's Literotica's immunity clause:

Unlike the CDA, COPA applies
only to material displayed on the World Wide Web, covers only com-
munications made for commercial purposes, and restricts only “mate-
rial that is harmful to minors,”

URL: (PDF file)
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/01pdf/00-1293.pdf

As far as I know, the stories here are not Commerical in nature.

That quote is right in the opening paragraph.

 

[Guest]

What this law mandates is that any US site carrying commercial adult content (like Literotica) must utilize a membership system where all users verify age through a credit card.

Why do I get the feeling that Citibank is behind this?

 

[tenyari]

Here's a summary of the official ruling:

Held: COPA’s reliance on “community standards” to identify what ma-
terial “is harmful to minors” does not by itself render the statute sub-
stantially overbroad for First Amendment purposes. The Court,
however, expresses no view as to whether COPA suffers from sub-
stantial overbreadth for reasons other than its use of community
standards, whether the statute is unconstitutionally vague, or
whether the statute survives strict scrutiny. Prudence dictates al-
lowing the Third Circuit to first examine these difficult issues. Be-
cause petitioner did not ask to have the preliminary injunction va-
cated, and because this Court could not do so without addressing
matters the Third Circuit has yet to consider, the Government re-
mains enjoined from enforcing COPA absent further action by the
lower courts.

If a worse case evolves, Usenet will become a popular place again...

I already post to news://alt.sex.stories.moderated
Even the archives of that could escape via FTP.


A key quote on COPA's scope:

After our decision in Reno v. American Civil Liberties
Union, Congress explored other avenues for restricting
minors’ access to pornographic material on the Internet.
In particular, Congress passed and the President signed
into law the Child Online Protection Act, 112 Stat. 2681–
736 (codified in 47 U. S. C. §231 (1994 ed., Supp. V)).
COPA prohibits any person from “knowingly and with
knowledge of the character of the material, in interstate or
foreign commerce by means of the World Wide Web,
mak[ing] any communication for commercial purposes that is available to any minor and that includes any mate-
rial that is harmful to minors.” 47 U. S. C. §231(a)(1).

Apparently responding to our objections to the breadth
of the CDA’s coverage, Congress limited the scope of
COPA’s coverage in at least three ways. First, while the
CDA applied to communications over the Internet as a
whole, including, for example, e-mail messages, COPA
applies only to material displayed on the World Wide Web.
Second, unlike the CDA, COPA covers only communica-
tions made “for commercial purposes.”3 Ibid. And third,
while the CDA prohibited “indecent” and “patently offen-
sive” communications, COPA restricts only the narrower
category of “material that is harmful to minors.” Ibid.

 

[Chicklet]

On a somewhat ironic note - if kids come here, at least they are reading.

this one individual sent me feedback that stated that he didn't think I looked 20, thought I looked 15 which was closer to his age of FOURTEEN. It was sorta freaky, he kept sending me feedback about how great each and every one of my stories was. I wrote him back and asked him if he didn't have anything better to do, like homework.

ugh.

chicklet

 

[Guest]

LOL. Chicklet doesn't get turned on by smart 14 yr. olds, eh?

SexyChele sure has a point there: the literacy rate is inversely proportional to the teen pregnancy rate. But that could also mean that smart girls know how to use contraceptives.

In any case, the smut banners are everywhere: they go looking for you, not vice-versa. Once again the focus in congress is not about the ideal but about the pragmatic solution. *sigh*

And tenyari, you are so right. The oldest solutions might not be the most popular, but they sure are the most reliable. The Napsters of the internet just draw too much unwated attention: the content has always been there, and those who know the medium will always find it.

...and since when did a credit card an adult make? Why not ask for social security numbers instead? Let's not hide the fact that our credit history is a dossier for big brother when he comes snooping, not to mention it is easier to get than a library card.

Too bad the puppet masters are beyond ego otherwise they might come down from Mt. Olympus and brag to the rest of us now and again.

 

[phatcat]

oops. Guess I timed out while writing the above post.