from sub to slave...help!
- Thread starter jewel_GR
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KillerMuffin
Seraphically Disinclined
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2000
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- 25,603
I'm not expert on this, but this doesn't sound all that good to me.
This is what I understand. You have essentially a long distance D/s relationship where you've met on occasion. Now you are going to move in with him and transfer immediately from sub to slave.
As a slave you have no rights that he doesn't choose to give you. Rights that a sub normally has.
Additionally, he has already begun pushing your hard limits in ways that make you feel very uncomfortable and resentful. He is making you do illegal things, such as public nudity and bestiality, which make you very uncomfortable to the extent that you aren't even involved with the "scene" you're just doing it to please him.
Houston, we have a problem.
Do you trust him?
I'm neither Dom nor sub, but I do know relationships pretty well. You are basically "new" to this Dom and you haven't had the chance to seriously explore yourself as a sub and now he is taking away your will. Some people are good with this. Are you one of them? I don't really think so.
You need to have a serious discussion with your Dom before you move. You need to discuss hard limits, trust, and your concerns. If he does not address them with the appropriate seriousness and attention to it-- that means that he takes you seriously, listens to what you're saying, and tries to work with you to find a solution to your fears-- then I would highly recommend that you stay put.
There are some Doms out there who aren't BDSM. They are abusers. From your description, this man sounds like there's a very good possibility that he is an abuser.
If your Dom is any Dom at all, he'll understand your fears and he'll be interested in helping you become your sexuality rather than just making you become an extension of his.
If this all really terrifying, I'm sorry. I live about three hours from Linn County, Kansas and the "Slavemaster."
This is what I understand. You have essentially a long distance D/s relationship where you've met on occasion. Now you are going to move in with him and transfer immediately from sub to slave.
As a slave you have no rights that he doesn't choose to give you. Rights that a sub normally has.
Additionally, he has already begun pushing your hard limits in ways that make you feel very uncomfortable and resentful. He is making you do illegal things, such as public nudity and bestiality, which make you very uncomfortable to the extent that you aren't even involved with the "scene" you're just doing it to please him.
Houston, we have a problem.
Do you trust him?
I'm neither Dom nor sub, but I do know relationships pretty well. You are basically "new" to this Dom and you haven't had the chance to seriously explore yourself as a sub and now he is taking away your will. Some people are good with this. Are you one of them? I don't really think so.
You need to have a serious discussion with your Dom before you move. You need to discuss hard limits, trust, and your concerns. If he does not address them with the appropriate seriousness and attention to it-- that means that he takes you seriously, listens to what you're saying, and tries to work with you to find a solution to your fears-- then I would highly recommend that you stay put.
There are some Doms out there who aren't BDSM. They are abusers. From your description, this man sounds like there's a very good possibility that he is an abuser.
If your Dom is any Dom at all, he'll understand your fears and he'll be interested in helping you become your sexuality rather than just making you become an extension of his.
If this all really terrifying, I'm sorry. I live about three hours from Linn County, Kansas and the "Slavemaster."
cymbidia
unrepentant pervert
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2001
- Posts
- 8,786
Disclaimer: I shouldn't be posting right now. I'm not in the mood to be gentle and indirect. However, i never ever mean harm, either. It's just that sometimes my exasperation with whati see as players wells up and overtakes my fingers in a kind of organic mutiny...
jewel? Listen.
At the moment, i don't really care to banter words regarding your definition of "slave" versus your definition of "submissive". What you need to know is that those words mean something different to us all. There is no uniform definition for the words.
Additionally, you're really going way WAY fast into things, don't you think? Nilla a year ago and now...all is completely different. It would be enough to be entering into a BDSM 24/7 relationship but with someone you've not spent any real time with? With someone who's not allowing you a steady growth into this lifestyle but taking huge and fundamantal bites from your personhood?
jewel? It's been siad in this forum over and over - and in the thread that proceeded this forum over and over - because it's true: you are a person, always, within your BDSM relationship and your relationships has to be a good human relationship before it can be a good BDSM relationship.
Go back and read those words again.
They're bottom level truths.
If you are not getting your needs met as a person inside your relationship, then something is wrong.
If your basic human relationship is not flourishing - not the BDSM part, just the lovers part - then something is wrong.
If something is wrong, fix it before you make a decision you may deeply regret six months down the road - or a year.
Please read through these threads, jewel, as if your self depended on them. Believe us, please. We have no reason to offer anything that's false to you and every reason in the world to offer truth laced with the integrity of many of us having already been down the road you're beginning to walk.
Is a safe word counterproductive for extremely novice submissives?
http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74775&highlight=slave+submissive
I was searching, and now I've found it, and I'm a little scared...
http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82571&highlight=slave+submissive
TPE Slaves Vs Subs
http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82695&highlight=slave+submissive
About wannabes and broken subs – Hecate spilling her poison
http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69998&highlight=slave+submissive
Don't give your submission away lightly, jewel. It's a gift that you give. It cannot be taken from you. It cannot be guilted from you. It cannot be bought or bartered away. You give it...and you take it back, too, if the person you've given it to doesn't value it as highly as he should.
Personally, i wouldn't do illegal things for anyone. And if my dominant asked it of me, i'd reconsider my entanglement with him/her.
Also, since you asked, you don't have near enough experience with all this to even know what the hell your doing with this submission versus slavery thing, darlin'. Give it a while. Ease into it. There's nothing better about one or the other. There's nothing worse. These's no deeper commitment being a slave than a sub - they are different headtrips is all. (Well, and "slavery" is a mythical thing anyway - there are no real slaves anymore, jewel. It's illegal. It's just semantics.)
Learn to walk before you try to run, darlin'. That's the way we all gotta do it so we avoid landing face down in the grass with skinned up knees and tears in our eyes.
jewel? Listen.
At the moment, i don't really care to banter words regarding your definition of "slave" versus your definition of "submissive". What you need to know is that those words mean something different to us all. There is no uniform definition for the words.
Additionally, you're really going way WAY fast into things, don't you think? Nilla a year ago and now...all is completely different. It would be enough to be entering into a BDSM 24/7 relationship but with someone you've not spent any real time with? With someone who's not allowing you a steady growth into this lifestyle but taking huge and fundamantal bites from your personhood?
jewel? It's been siad in this forum over and over - and in the thread that proceeded this forum over and over - because it's true: you are a person, always, within your BDSM relationship and your relationships has to be a good human relationship before it can be a good BDSM relationship.
Go back and read those words again.
They're bottom level truths.
If you are not getting your needs met as a person inside your relationship, then something is wrong.
If your basic human relationship is not flourishing - not the BDSM part, just the lovers part - then something is wrong.
If something is wrong, fix it before you make a decision you may deeply regret six months down the road - or a year.
Please read through these threads, jewel, as if your self depended on them. Believe us, please. We have no reason to offer anything that's false to you and every reason in the world to offer truth laced with the integrity of many of us having already been down the road you're beginning to walk.
Is a safe word counterproductive for extremely novice submissives?
http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74775&highlight=slave+submissive
I was searching, and now I've found it, and I'm a little scared...
http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82571&highlight=slave+submissive
TPE Slaves Vs Subs
http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82695&highlight=slave+submissive
About wannabes and broken subs – Hecate spilling her poison
http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69998&highlight=slave+submissive
Don't give your submission away lightly, jewel. It's a gift that you give. It cannot be taken from you. It cannot be guilted from you. It cannot be bought or bartered away. You give it...and you take it back, too, if the person you've given it to doesn't value it as highly as he should.
Personally, i wouldn't do illegal things for anyone. And if my dominant asked it of me, i'd reconsider my entanglement with him/her.
Also, since you asked, you don't have near enough experience with all this to even know what the hell your doing with this submission versus slavery thing, darlin'. Give it a while. Ease into it. There's nothing better about one or the other. There's nothing worse. These's no deeper commitment being a slave than a sub - they are different headtrips is all. (Well, and "slavery" is a mythical thing anyway - there are no real slaves anymore, jewel. It's illegal. It's just semantics.)
Learn to walk before you try to run, darlin'. That's the way we all gotta do it so we avoid landing face down in the grass with skinned up knees and tears in our eyes.
James Blandings
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2002
- Posts
- 798
This would be a good place for me to reiterate Mister Blandings First Rule of BDSM: Roles should grow from relationships, relationships should not grow from roles.
Shadowsdream
Dream Maker
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2002
- Posts
- 3,173
Jewel
Baby steps from the begining of the journey to the end is the only way to taste the true magic of the transitions that you seek.
Neither slavery nor submission should be taken any more seriously than the other.
I have always felt that slavery (of the mind) is fallen into naturally, it is not a place a Dom/me takes a sub..it is where a sub finds themselves one day when their heaven finds another door. Body slavery is no more than an extension of the mind.
A Dominant that accepts the journey into the control of slavery also transcends into a realm of immense responsibility that goes far beyond the issues of sexuality and limits..hard or soft.
Neither a slave nor a submissive holds more or less value than the other. These titles encapsulate the needs of the partners in love and devotion.
If you feel resentment or anger...ever...with where your Master is asking you to go now...I guarantee ( not the money back guarantee) that real time will not diminish this discontent and will spill over into His feelings of Himself as a Dominant very quickly.
I have just watched two online/telephone Domme/sub to real time Domme to slave relationships blow up in the faces of the submissives when real time showed the abuse and lack of knowledge of these newbie Dommes possessed.
The new submissive also has the responsibility of making sure relationships do not progress faster than the emotions or the knowledge can take both parties.
So to make a long reply short...be ready to return to where you are now..I am speaking physical location...do not close any doors behind you.
I do not judge the emotions between you and your Master and only hope My words will slow you both down so that the journey you began one year ago will bring you to the real heaven that BDSM can be.
Baby steps from the begining of the journey to the end is the only way to taste the true magic of the transitions that you seek.
Neither slavery nor submission should be taken any more seriously than the other.
I have always felt that slavery (of the mind) is fallen into naturally, it is not a place a Dom/me takes a sub..it is where a sub finds themselves one day when their heaven finds another door. Body slavery is no more than an extension of the mind.
A Dominant that accepts the journey into the control of slavery also transcends into a realm of immense responsibility that goes far beyond the issues of sexuality and limits..hard or soft.
Neither a slave nor a submissive holds more or less value than the other. These titles encapsulate the needs of the partners in love and devotion.
If you feel resentment or anger...ever...with where your Master is asking you to go now...I guarantee ( not the money back guarantee) that real time will not diminish this discontent and will spill over into His feelings of Himself as a Dominant very quickly.
I have just watched two online/telephone Domme/sub to real time Domme to slave relationships blow up in the faces of the submissives when real time showed the abuse and lack of knowledge of these newbie Dommes possessed.
The new submissive also has the responsibility of making sure relationships do not progress faster than the emotions or the knowledge can take both parties.
So to make a long reply short...be ready to return to where you are now..I am speaking physical location...do not close any doors behind you.
I do not judge the emotions between you and your Master and only hope My words will slow you both down so that the journey you began one year ago will bring you to the real heaven that BDSM can be.
Jewel Sweetie;
James, Muffin and cym have all said this but I have to add in my own warning
when I read your posts little bells went off in my head - I do not like or approve of 'slaves' I appreciate that many may disagree with me but whilst choosing to submit to someone can be a psoitive, liberating and enjoyable experience being a slave is handing over your whole life and wellbeing to another person who generally has very little concern for any of these things. I cannot see how this denial of self and the inability to say - No is good for anyone.
You should never be forced into a situation where you must do something illegal, dangerous or that pushes your hard limits against your will and to me that is what happens when people name themselves slaves.
In additiom - this all sounds too far too fast, slow and easy baby - its much more funt hat way!!
James, Muffin and cym have all said this but I have to add in my own warning
when I read your posts little bells went off in my head - I do not like or approve of 'slaves' I appreciate that many may disagree with me but whilst choosing to submit to someone can be a psoitive, liberating and enjoyable experience being a slave is handing over your whole life and wellbeing to another person who generally has very little concern for any of these things. I cannot see how this denial of self and the inability to say - No is good for anyone.
You should never be forced into a situation where you must do something illegal, dangerous or that pushes your hard limits against your will and to me that is what happens when people name themselves slaves.
In additiom - this all sounds too far too fast, slow and easy baby - its much more funt hat way!!
KillerMuffin
Seraphically Disinclined
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2000
- Posts
- 25,603
jewel_GR said:
This makes everything a lot clearer to me.
He can ask for your trust, but he should never push it. Trust is not something that can come from an outside source. You have to learn to trust him fully and it appears that he is proving to you that you can't trust him fully.
Resentment is always coupled with anger and a lessening of trust. When he has you do things that you feel resentful about, you are seeing him as untrustworthy because he's treating you in a way that violates you. Whether he meant to or not. It's not him, his actions, his motives; it's your perception.
Whether his intentions are good or the love is the highest doesn't matter. It's all about trust. You've been an LDR sub for a year, prior to that you were completely 'Nilla. You've been a sub face to face for how long, collectively-- there is a real difference between online and realtime, you can tell me more about that than I can tell you-- and now you're moving directly from possession of will to having no say whatsoever.
This is a train wreck just waiting to happen. You've got the rest of your lives to explore BDSM with each other, there's no need to rush anything. There is an even greater need for you to take it slowly. You need the time to build up the trust. A good Dom knows that and wouldn't try to force your trust.
You have a very powerful gut instinct and it's telling you something. What, I have no idea, but perhaps there might be more to this than nervousness. It seems like there might be some fear involved. Listen to your instincts. If you think you're moving too fast, you're moving too fast. If you feel resentful, there's a serious problem that needs to be addressed before you commit yourself to something you may not be able to get out of.
If you need time, he shouldn't have a problem giving it to you. Even if it's nothing more than some time as a submissive first. You're moving, probably to a place where the only person you know is your Dom. That's terrifying enough, particularly since these things can be very dangerous, without having to deal with hard limits being pushed and trust being pressured.
Shadowsdream
Dream Maker
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- Apr 29, 2002
- Posts
- 3,173
what killermuffin said!
100%
100%
KillerMuffin
Seraphically Disinclined
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- Jul 29, 2000
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I'm sorry for irritating you.
Your use of the words pushing hard limits, fear, resentment, and trust set the alarms ringing. I suppose that caring about other people is criticism in your eyes.
Most likely you're not getting the responses that you're looking for because no one has done what you're doing.
Your use of the words pushing hard limits, fear, resentment, and trust set the alarms ringing. I suppose that caring about other people is criticism in your eyes.
Most likely you're not getting the responses that you're looking for because no one has done what you're doing.
cellis
Saucy
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2001
- Posts
- 4,186
Jewel,
I think I know what you are asking. You have an issue with trust. You want to trust this man, but you have those little thoughts that creep into your mind that undermine the trust you do have. And because you are not there, skin to skin, with this man, this also causes doubts.
There is no way to prevent this from happening. It is just part of human nature. I can almost certainly tell you that you would feel this way if you were in the same city with this man. It is just part of the process.
As far as feeling resentful or angry at what you are being asked to do... I have to tell you that you really need to listen to your gut on this. Take a step back and look at every thing that is happening to you.
I think I understand the mental process that you are trying to take yourself through. I just want to remind you that on-line is NOT real life. Most people spend years making the move you are trying to make. I know someone with over 15 years experience in this lifestyle... who wants to make this move. Even she understands that it is a process that takes time.
Knowing someone on the phone and through email is not the same as knowing them in real life. You say that the two of you started this together at the same time. That causes all kinds of warning bells to go off in my head. Why the rush? You say you are moving to be with this man soon. Why not wait until you know him better and you know if you are going to like him before you make this kind of decision?
I do not mean to be critical of him or your relationship. All I am really saying is examine your feelings and take your time. If this is the real thing for the two of you, then you have the rest of your life to move from sub to slave.
I think I know what you are asking. You have an issue with trust. You want to trust this man, but you have those little thoughts that creep into your mind that undermine the trust you do have. And because you are not there, skin to skin, with this man, this also causes doubts.
There is no way to prevent this from happening. It is just part of human nature. I can almost certainly tell you that you would feel this way if you were in the same city with this man. It is just part of the process.
As far as feeling resentful or angry at what you are being asked to do... I have to tell you that you really need to listen to your gut on this. Take a step back and look at every thing that is happening to you.
I think I understand the mental process that you are trying to take yourself through. I just want to remind you that on-line is NOT real life. Most people spend years making the move you are trying to make. I know someone with over 15 years experience in this lifestyle... who wants to make this move. Even she understands that it is a process that takes time.
Knowing someone on the phone and through email is not the same as knowing them in real life. You say that the two of you started this together at the same time. That causes all kinds of warning bells to go off in my head. Why the rush? You say you are moving to be with this man soon. Why not wait until you know him better and you know if you are going to like him before you make this kind of decision?
I do not mean to be critical of him or your relationship. All I am really saying is examine your feelings and take your time. If this is the real thing for the two of you, then you have the rest of your life to move from sub to slave.
KillerMuffin
Seraphically Disinclined
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2000
- Posts
- 25,603
There's been a lot of miscommunication on this thread. But that's okay. Better to err on the side of concern, right?
We'll just go on from here.
We'll just go on from here.
Houston_Tx
Virgin
- Joined
- May 31, 2002
- Posts
- 11
interesting but not in Houston lol
If there is anyone in Houston and seeking people to get to know how about we make a new group for it ?
If there is anyone in Houston and seeking people to get to know how about we make a new group for it ?
Calamity Jane
Reverend Blue Jeans
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2001
- Posts
- 18,421
Hey Tex, you might want to post personals type ads on the personals board. Don't clutter up current threads with requests to meet people, or form new groups. Just a friendly neighborhood piece of advice.
Jewel... I think I can understand some of your fear and resentment. No, I've never been in a submissive or slave role, but your feelings sound so familiar to what I went through, trying to learn to be a wife after being a fiercly independent woman. It's scary to give up -any- piece of yourself to another person.
That said, I have to agree that your post sends little alarm belss clanging through my system. If you weren't entering into a 'controlled' relationship, the same alarms would be goin off. Anyone who'd known a partner for as little time as you have, who had experienced very little actual face to face with this person, and was considering moving to a new location to be with them would receive the same warning.
Don't burn bridges behind you.
Don't forget to meet new people when you get there.
Get to know neighbors, his friends, his co-workers, etc.
Don't give up hobbies and interests.
Keep in touch with family and friends from your old location.
Because of the nature of the relationship that you're entering in to, I'd also suggest you do a lot of thinking, reflecting, and even journaling to get all your feelings an fears into the front of your mind. Don't push them back. Don't say they're 'your fault', there is no blame with emotions. Discuss the fears with your Master. Explain to him that certain things have you feeling resentful, scared, untrusting.
I know that you're looking for someone to talk to, and if I knew anyone who'd done what you're doing, I'd point you in their direction. But, I think that ultimately, you're going to have to address these things with your Master, and no one else. A friend can talk to you about your issues, but only your Master can address them directly.
Jewel... I think I can understand some of your fear and resentment. No, I've never been in a submissive or slave role, but your feelings sound so familiar to what I went through, trying to learn to be a wife after being a fiercly independent woman. It's scary to give up -any- piece of yourself to another person.
That said, I have to agree that your post sends little alarm belss clanging through my system. If you weren't entering into a 'controlled' relationship, the same alarms would be goin off. Anyone who'd known a partner for as little time as you have, who had experienced very little actual face to face with this person, and was considering moving to a new location to be with them would receive the same warning.
Don't burn bridges behind you.
Don't forget to meet new people when you get there.
Get to know neighbors, his friends, his co-workers, etc.
Don't give up hobbies and interests.
Keep in touch with family and friends from your old location.
Because of the nature of the relationship that you're entering in to, I'd also suggest you do a lot of thinking, reflecting, and even journaling to get all your feelings an fears into the front of your mind. Don't push them back. Don't say they're 'your fault', there is no blame with emotions. Discuss the fears with your Master. Explain to him that certain things have you feeling resentful, scared, untrusting.
I know that you're looking for someone to talk to, and if I knew anyone who'd done what you're doing, I'd point you in their direction. But, I think that ultimately, you're going to have to address these things with your Master, and no one else. A friend can talk to you about your issues, but only your Master can address them directly.
