from an old scrap of paper

[Senna Jawa]

It has surfaced somehow, so let me
copy the text.
=======================

the farm quietly listens
to the wind blown blues
while Jackass' eyes
shoot with blood--
Jackass shouts

your music is STUPID STUPID!​

and the green wall of the forest
returns

STUPID STUPID!​

wh,
1993-07-30

 

[Rybka]

Just out of curiosity, why "and the green wall of the forest", and not "and the green forest wall" ? I think I know you well enough to believe that you have a reason for all your word choices.

PAX, Rybka

 

[WickedEve]

I prefer green paired with wall.

Good poem, SJ. I can feel the serenity, hear the disturbance, then a return to the peaceful green wall.

Cool.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Just out of curiosity, why "and the green wall of the forest", and not "and the green forest wall" ? I think I know you well enough to believe that you have a reason for all your word choices.

PAX, Rybka

Hi Rybka. It was a long time ago. I am sure that I wrote it the way I did by intuition, without dwelling on it, just as I would today.

The difference is in precision. This phrase is about echo. "The green forest wall" would stand for the whole forest. Also, I don't see what is the forest inside, when I am outside. It's the wall (the external surface) of the forest here, rather than the forest itself, which is green, and which returns the echo--"forest's green wall" rather than "green forest wall".

I am not saying that I am right. Your phrase is smoother. If I am syntactically wrong then your phrase would be better.

Hm, there is also something subtle about that line. In the line that forest, the way I have written it, is farther away, is remote--don't read, just look at that line. There is more space, more air.

Finally, in place of one object, you get two: the green wall and the forest, the image is richer.

Best regards,

 

[Senna Jawa]

I prefer green paired with wall.

Good poem, SJ. I can feel the serenity, hear the disturbance, then a return to the peaceful green wall.

Cool.

Thank you Eve (and Rybka ) for your kind words.

I am more likely to recall that I lost a mathematical book than a poem, because sometimes I need those lost books and then they come to my mind, and it's a bit painful. All this because of my many movings. But with an exception or two, I am not missing the poems which I have lost, since there are no occasions which would force me to recall them and their past being. Thus it's a bit strange when in the middle of some old papers I see a printout on 1/3 of a sheet of paper, not even cut off from the rest but torn away.

Actually, between me and the keyboard I have on my table true scrap paper, like from junk mail. I am saving the Amazonian forest by reusing such paper for all kind of notes and sketches. Somehow the 1/3 of the sheet with the poem was buried in the scrap pile.

Eve, I am especially glad that you felt the serenity of the poem, enhanced by the contrast with the shouting incident. Actually, the Jackass became a part of the Nature, he got embedded and dissolved in the serenity. And that's the point rather than a slight ironic accent. Yin & yang.

Best regards, thank you, and to Rybka,

 

[Rybka]

SJ, Thank you for taking the time to explain (and to Eve to for her comment). I always enjoy being enlightened by poets I respect!

(Actually, my personal preference now would be for "forest's green wall". Even though I am not crazy about apostrophes in poetry.)

PAX, Rybka

 

[sophieloves]

It has surfaced somehow, so let me
copy the text.
=======================

the farm quietly listens
to the wind blown blues
while Jackass' eyes
shoot with blood--
Jackass shouts

your music is STUPID STUPID!​

and the green wall of the forest
returns

STUPID STUPID!​

wh,
1993-07-30

can i just say what this makes me think about?

the farm - something man-made, fashioned from Nature but not necessarily in tune with it. wind-blown blues makes me hear music but not only that. wind-blown blues makes me see the way winds cross soils denuded of natural plantlife, lifting fine dirt that can cover and choke. the jackass speaks to me of someone who has deliberately placed themselves outside the throng, and while i can see a jackass braying, i see more a farmer who's farm is failing getting drunk and hurling impotent insults at Nature. the green wall acts as a contrast to what i felt was the dryness, maybe sterility of the farmed land. the echo thrown back is about his futility.

i suppose this is metaphorical, and it feels a lonely lonely piece about someone being on the outside, even if they placed themself there.

 

[Senna Jawa]

can i just say what this makes me think about?

Sophie, you did half of this poem, your reader's 50%. Different readers provide different readings, of course, just like different authors provide different writings. Poetry needs both. Thank you,

 

[bogusbrig]

Just out of curiosity, why "and the green wall of the forest", and not "and the green forest wall" ? I think I know you well enough to believe that you have a reason for all your word choices.

PAX, Rybka

You made me ask myself why 'green' is there at all. I find 'the forest wall' or 'wall of the forest' much stronger, since forests tend to be greenanyway.

Nice poem though.

Or perhaps I should say, nice poem SJ.

 

[Senna Jawa]

You made me ask myself why 'green' is there at all. I find 'the forest wall' or 'wall of the forest' much stronger, since forests tend to be green anyway.

Nice poem though.

Or perhaps I should say, nice poem SJ.

In the case of my poem "California?", after Anna & Eve turned my attention to my irregular, hard to swallow English, I left that poem alone but the issue kept nagging me subconsciously, and after almost a year I did correct my poem. The modified version should show withing a couple of days (I thought that today but I forgot that edited poems are kept from appearing for several days).

In the case of the poem under consideration, you Bogu made me stop and hesitate for a moment, but I'll stick with my version, my poetic consciousness is clear this time.

Your argument is based on the principle of not saying whatever is implied without the extra word(s). And often it is a good rule but it's not always that simple. There is also an issue of making an image to stand out, of focusing the reader on an image.... The accent in the original line and in the proposed hmm-improvement are like this:

and the green wall of the forest​

versus

and the forest wall​

There are also other issues. I need that long phrase to get the serenity mood and to induce in readers the feel of the distance from the forest, I need to slow down the readnig process. Breathless phrase won't do it.

---

The issue of greenness is not critical to our discussion but let me mention the difference between the knowledge+logic and the actual image. We know that forests and a forest's front tend to be green. On the other hand, it's not too common that a forest seen from the distance in a country setting impresses us with its green color. It all depends on the time of the day, on weather, on the position of sun, on the season, on the kind of the forest.... The image of a forest from distance tends to be dark, grayish (due to the trunks + the black space between the trees), and dark-green in a way which does not impress us as green when compared with the other elements of the view (grass, fields, isolated trees on the fields, etc).

Thank you for your comment and kind words,