Freeform Poetry: An Open Discussion

[JUDO]

I just posted in another thread some of my thoughts on what I believe constitutes a lot of the poetry here at Lit - freeform poetry.

Freeform poetry is judged by me on the words used, their individual meaning and their meaning implied by close association with their neighboring words.

The rhythm of freeform for me seems to come from the punctuation on the page and the words' syllables themselves. Oft times, words positioned in a cascade pattern imply they are to be read that was, as though falling down the page.

In fact, much of what I feel about freeform is that it is intended to be read, that possibly, audible representation is where freeform truly can fly.

I find freeform fascinating. A jumble of words place on the page with a structure created "of the moment" and yet, when it works, no structure could have been more sublime.

But that in and of itself, seems to make freeform so difficult to be successful with. There is no structure to follow, no rules, no boundaries. And as a result, I see a lot of attempts at freeform that simply fail me or leave me cold as a reader?

So, my question is this:

When freeform works, is it Inspiration speaking through the mind of its chosen poet or is it chance?

How do we judge that which has no form?

 

[Unmasked Poet]

Hmmm

Judo,

There is no such thing as freeform poetry. All poetry has form. There is nothing new in writing poetry. Even the absence of form is form. Take the popular poetry slam things, especially that abomination on HBO. Those are simply sonnets and often written in iambic pentameter. The difference is rather than
stretch them across the page.
the
poets
stretch
them
down
then the spoken poets will re-stress words to create a false rhythm. If you extend the syllables of words you can force the iambic or other quality. This is why they all read the same way for the most part. They create the cadence and force the words to fit. Without often realizing it they have made Shakespeare, Spenser and others quite proud indeed.

Linear poetry was written intending to add a visual and emotional device to their words. It had been done for centuries. As a poet becomes more accomplished they abandon these baby steps.

Stream of conscious poetry was popular around two centuries ago.

Free verse was all the rage on the African continent before America was founded.

What you may be describing as freeform (I would need to see an example) has it's roots in Asian literature. Ever notice many Asian characters scroll down the page? (Chinese mostly)

There is no chance in poetry, though often poets have luck.

Believe me nothing is new.

U.P.

 

[daughter]

It's Free Verse

JUDO--

It would help if we use the correct terminology to begin with. It would also help if poets would stop incorrectly stating that there are no rules and boundaries. I swear that makes me want to spit. Then it might help if folks would read. Read up on the history of poetry and this form. I know this is shocking to some, but Free Verse is actually a form(there are roughly 400 according to Truco's book of Forms) and it didn't happen like the big bang theory. Free Verse was conceptualize and born of poets who were trained, yes they actually studied the classical forms.

Free Verse did not happen with the Beats folks and it certainly isn't something we're perfecting. We're swinging it like a cheap whore on Woodward. Dropping words down a page is a gimmick poets use because they don't know any other way. The novice often will brag that he's never studied squat about construction, line length and meter. Folks are simply plopping those poor words down they way they envision them being spoken. What's funny is that if folks actually READ the words out loud, they'd realize the pace doesn't match the rate of speed of the intended effect, and the reader is having rapid eye movement when the intention is a slow seduction!

Every break is a pause, but since the neophyte hasn't bothered to crack a book on writing poety, he doesn't know that. It's just like breaking a paragraph. Duh!!!

I'll be back after my heart stops racing.

Peace,

daughter


p.s. I'm guilty of doing all this crap which is why I refuse to sugar-coat what I know is true.

 

[JUDO]

Help then

I am a novice poet, but an experienced writer. I would like to be able to appreciate many of the poems submitted here, but frankly, I don't see the structure or form. (Hence, my calling it 'freeform').

Don't worry, UP. I'm not intending to look for something new or identify it. Obviously, I wouldn't know it if it bit me.

D, If there are really 400 forms of free verse, then it seems like the rules need to be simplified or the "man in the street" will never, ever appreciate it. What was making your heart race, anyway?

How about a thread on form? Take examples from the pages of Lit and show us what's there? To me, most of the submissions look like 'jumbles of words' lacking form.

I thought the 'sonnet' information shared in "Poetry Bootcamp' was wonderful. Can we do others?

 

[Ded Poet]

JUDO

Perhaps what you
are calling 'free' form--
'a jumble of words on the page--
is simply BAD form.

What is the difference
between good and bad form?
Well,
good form works, and bad
form does'nt. In both
there are 'whys' that can
be pointed to.

When you see
a poem that doesn't
do it for you (better,
when you see one that does)
ask yourself why--
what elements or lack
thereof create
this effect?

The answers will be
about form,I think.

DP

 

[daughter]

Ded Poet

I'm going to smack you! LOL Don't we have enough folks masquerading thoughts as poetry? NUT

Judo--

Most of what you see on the site are jumbled words. How can you recognize a form if you don't know what defines it?
Judo I didn't know 85% of the stuff I share with you five years ago. I didn't live in the library, and I'm far from studious. I do believe strongly likely KillerMuffin said I live, eat, breathe poetry. At best, I'm a decent student. There's nothing stopping anybody from learning what constitutes a poem and how to recognize one.

The folks who write forms on this board can't get any respect. HomerPindar has examples of at least 5 forms. In most instances, he tells you up front it is a form. Otzchiim, has several sonnets in his index. Perky_baby and The DR4KE have both shared haiku with us. I posted a Tanka. Can't miss it because it is the title. SA Storm's "Shameless" is a free verse sonnet. REDWAVE wrote a villanelle for the "Heavy" competition. I did not make up the number about forms. Maybe I'll post a few links to sites where you can read more about forms. But none of it matters if folks don't invest some time in study and commit to some application. The information is in these threads.

And there is more than just the matter of forms. Poetry devices and styles exist regardless of the form. We have repeatedly touched on refrains, imagery, rhythm, sound, line-breaks, metaphor, assonance, and alliteration principally in those threads that folks say we shouldn't have. Those threads gave you real examples from your peers. The one of the best ways to learn something is when it isn't working.

We have "Name That Poet" and "Poetry Trivia". Take 10 minutes to search the net for any of these answers, and you'd be exposed to masters of the art, see examples of devices and forms.

Free verse is actually the hardest form to write well. That's why so many of the poems you read here don't sound all that distinctive. That's because they aren't. Would you try building a house and you never even taken workshop let alone not have a blueprint?

Ded Poet, said it. For most of us, we're playing and it reads like it. Judo I don't know all the forms. I can recognize a good portion of the staples. I've spent more times trying to learn about poetry devices and reading as much poetry as I can. An online diet of your peers won't cut it. We've got some talented ones, but you'll gain even more reading those who have perfected their art. It's like singing. Singing on key isn't enough. What distinguishes you from the other tenors?

Peace,

daughter

 

[WickedEve]

edit

 

[Whispersecret]

OH, geez, Eve, will you cut that "edit" shit out? LOL. I keep seeing your name, getting interested in what you're going to say and finding it erased! Grrr! I like and respect you and want to read your thoughts.

 

[JUDO]

Yippee!

Thanks, D -

That was a really cool post. It will certainly help me, the formless, a lot.

And, oh, believe me, I get the hint about "other tenors" in your last paragraph.


- Judo