Freedom of (Some) Speech

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DeeZire

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The imbeciles at the Arizona State Legislature are attempting to pass a bill making content providers liable for the actions of those who are inspired by that content to commit crimes. Their target is the production of simulated rape videos distributed over the internet, but the bill is written so broadly that it includes all content providers, including movies, TV, video games, and even the LIT website.

The Arizona State Legislature is famous for backward thinking. They were the only state to ignore the freon ban when the industry adopted the new spec in the early 90's. They again made the national news when they refused to honor MLK day. It never ceases to amaze me what they'll come up with next, but this bill is a real stinker. Fortunately, Govenor Napalitano (D) will undoubtedly kill the bill with her veto pen.

It's situations like this that make me appreciate the (evil?) lawyers who come to the defense of the first amendment.

The text of a newspaper article is C&P'd below, with the link.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0407obscenity0407.html

State measure targets obscene material
Critics: Bill allowing suits is broad, unconstitutional
Scott Wong
The Arizona Republic
Apr. 7, 2008 12:00 AM

Pornographic videos depicting rape scenes. Web sites on how to administer date-rape drugs. Books on how to build a homemade bomb.

People who create or sell material that causes someone to commit a serious crime could be sued under a bill that faces a hearing today in the Arizona Legislature that is expected to draw a number of opponents from various industries.

Bookstores, news organizations, cable companies and other businesses argue that the proposal infringes on First Amendment rights and makes them vulnerable to lawsuits over mainstream materials now protected under free speech, from gun magazines and newspaper articles to on-demand television programs.
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House Bill 2660, which passed the House and will be debated in the Senate Judiciary Committee today, would make an individual or a company liable for civil damages if they produce, publish or distribute any dangerous or obscene materials that causes someone to commit an act of terrorism or a felony.

Rep. Warde Nichols, a Gilbert Republican who introduced the bill, said that for too long, the people creating or selling this type of material have not been held accountable. This bill would hit them in the pocketbook and serve as a deterrent, he said.

"We're going after the worst of the worst of society," Nichols said. "We're not going after your pornography that is protected under the First Amendment. We're not going after your Castle Boutique (adult shop). This isn't touching that stuff."

But Christopher Finan, president of the American Booksellers Foundation for Free Expression in New York, described the bill as too broad, too vague and unconstitutional. He challenged the belief that books and other materials could inspire someone to commit a sexual or violent crime.

"We will be held liable for acts committed by a person who has bought a book in our store and then goes and does something bad because he or she claims the book made them do it," said Finan, whose New York-based group represents 900 independent bookstores nationwide, including Tempe's Changing Hands Bookstore.

"We will not feel safe about selling books and magazines. This will have a chilling effect on the sale of materials protected by the First Amendment."

Under the current proposal, someone could be liable for damages only if all of the following apply:


• The material is dangerous or obscene.


• The person made money from the creation or sale of the material.


• The person was aware the material could result in someone else's committing an act of terrorism or a felony.


• The material caused another person to commit any of the above crimes.

Material is defined as "dangerous" if there is evidence it would cause an imminent act of terrorism or a felony offense. Material describing or depicting sexual conduct is described as "obscene" if the average person in a community would find it offensive and it lacks literary, artistic, political or scientific value.

Nichols said he will entertain changes to the bill today that would eliminate language dealing with terrorism and address concerns from the telecommunications and other industries. Companies like Cox Communications have fought the bill, saying it opens them up to lawsuits stemming from material viewed on cable television or over the Internet.

"The language of the bill actually creates huge liability issues for the folks who are the pipes or the conduit but have no control over the content," said Susan Bitter Smith, executive director of the Arizona-New Mexico Cable Television Association.
 
It would be hilarious if the first suit attempted under this law was against, say, Guns and Ammo. :D
 
A major university operates a website where you can learn to make all kinds of explosives, including nitroglycerin. All of the information is contained within popular 19th Century periodicals.
 
Under the current proposal, someone could be liable for damages only if all of the following apply:


The material is dangerous or obscene.


• The person made money from the creation or sale of the material.


• The person was aware the material could result in someone else's committing an act of terrorism or a felony.


• The material caused another person to commit any of the above crimes.
How do they plan to define that first part in an unbiased and non-arbitrary way?
 
It seems to me that the critical point in this law is the bit about "causing" the consumer to commit a crime. Providing information on weaponry or showing pornography does not "cause" someone to commit a crime. That "causing" bit makes this law similar to existing laws forbidding incitement to violence which all states already hold to be constitutional.

Note that:

--Showing a rape video does not "cause" someone to commit rape.

--Providing instructions on how to construct a bomb does not "cause" someone build and plant a bomb.

--Providing information on how to administer a date-rape drug does not "cause" someone to administer that drug.

In order to show that the rape video did "cause" the crime, you'd have to get the perpetrator to confess that the information pushed him over the line, which I doubt would be of much legal value, so this law would be hard to use to close down internet sites. The only kinds of sites this law would pertain to are sites that openly incite people to violence or criminal activity, and those might already be illegal under existing laws.

It's still an silly and dangerous law and subject to abuse and should be scotched, but I don't think it's as dangerous as you think. As I say, there are laws on the books now about incitement to violence and they're beginning to be used against internet sites.

I just heard about a case being brought against Facebook for advertising a party in Michigan in which thousands of people showed up and started a riot. The DA of the county where it happened is charging the founders of Facebook with inciting a riot and, while the decision is still pending, the case is setting legal precedent. Can Facebook be held responsible for its content?
 
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A major university operates a website where you can learn to make all kinds of explosives, including nitroglycerin. All of the information is contained within popular 19th Century periodicals.

Any sophomore student in chemistry can find out how to make explosives. The information is readily available in the chemical literature and they're really not difficult to make.

Paint thinner, sulfuric and nitric acids and a jar full of ice and you're all set.
 
Any sophomore student in chemistry can find out how to make explosives. The information is readily available in the chemical literature and they're really not difficult to make.

Paint thinner, sulfuric and nitric acids and a jar full of ice and you're all set.
That's it, Doc. You're under arrest. You just incited me to blow up the Arizona state Legislature. Oh, and I owe you 2 cents for that dangerous info :cool:
 
That's it, Doc. You're under arrest. You just incited me to blow up the Arizona state Legislature. Oh, and I owe you 2 cents for that dangerous info :cool:

Wait then:

Paint thinner, sulfuric and nitric acids, a jar full of ice, and his turgid, throbbing manhood plunging repeatedly into her wet and quivering pussy without a shred of redeeming social significance, and you're all set.
 
I'm still mourning the death of personal responsibility. It died in obscurity due to being ignored and forgotten in this world of fast money and entitlement.

Cat
 
Thats about as bad as the dumbasses that try and stop video game violence. GTA does not cause your kids to go out and kill people. If your kid is so messed up that GTA will make them go kill someone then why did you buy it in the first place?
 
I'm still mourning the death of personal responsibility. It died in obscurity due to being ignored and forgotten in this world of fast money and entitlement.

Cat

Aren't the conservatives the ones always preaching about personal responsibility? So why do they write a bill enabling criminals to claim they're not responsible for their actions? The hypocrisy of this situation boggles the mind.
 
I don't think that AZ legislature=Conservative. Yeah, I know they're Republican but even Republican/=Conservative anymore. Conservative means being careful.
 
Alas... this is my state.

Alas... apparently no one believes in being responsible for their actions in politics in this state...(need I mention the crooks we've elected? Wouldn't they LOVE to say some internet porn incited them to steal millions of dollars???)

Alas... I guess we better take Barney off the air, because he incites me to violence every time I hear that STUPID VOICE!!!
 
I'm still mourning the death of personal responsibility. It died in obscurity due to being ignored and forgotten in this world of fast money and entitlement.

Cat

This and all the McDonalds-Made-Me-Drop-My-Coffee kinds of cases are about accountability, not responsibility. That's why lawyers, politicians, the media, and public opinion so often gets them wrong.
 
This and all the McDonalds-Made-Me-Drop-My-Coffee kinds of cases are about accountability, not responsibility. That's why lawyers, politicians, the media, and public opinion so often gets them wrong.

Hmmmm,

Let me pour myself a nice hot cup of joe and think about this.

If I watch some porno with a rape scene in it, then decide to go out and rape someone I am not responsible for my actions?

I watch a Slasher Movie then go out and slice some co-eds I am no longer responsible for my actions?

I go out and get some take out Egg Drop Soup and decide to eat it as I drive home which results in my spilling it in my lap and scorching my nuts, I am not responsible for the burns?

I watch an N.R.A. Commercial then go out and shoot up a school but I am not responsible for my actions.

In all cases someone else is to be held accountable for my actions because they showed me something that gave me an idea because I just don't know the difference between right and wrong. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE!!!!!

Kind of reminds me of the old "The Devil Made Me Do It."

Cat
 
If I watch some porno with a rape scene in it, then decide to go out and rape someone I am not responsible for my actions?

Yes you are. But this (dumb) law is about accountability.

I watch a Slasher Movie then go out and slice some co-eds I am no longer responsible for my actions?
That depends. Was it so bad it drove you insane? I may have seen that movie.

I go out and get some take out Egg Drop Soup and decide to eat it as I drive home which results in my spilling it in my lap and scorching my nuts, I am not responsible for the burns?

You are responsible, but the question is, are you solely accountable. If the egg drop soup contained a surprisingly high level of hydrochloric acid, I'd say that the local take-away has some 'splaining to do.

I watch an N.R.A. Commercial then go out and shoot up a school but I am not responsible for my actions.
This is true. Did you see how tartly that school was painted? And the neighborhood it was built in? It was askin' for it!

In all cases someone else is to be held accountable for my actions because they showed me something that gave me an idea because I just don't know the difference between right and wrong. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE!!!!!

I'm not sure I understood that bit.

Kind of reminds me of the old "The Devil Made Me Do It."

Cat

Separate civil from criminal liability and your amount of exclamation points will decrease, I promise you. ;)
 
Separate civil from criminal liability and your amount of exclamation points will decrease, I promise you. ;)

Possibly but I am not a lawyer nor would I care to be one. I have this strange and outmoded thought process. It concerns personal responsibility. I and I alone am responsible for my actions. If I do something then I must be accountable for my actions. (Yes there may be extenuating circumstances but ultimately I am responsible for my actions.) This is why I am so disgusted by the law suits and their results.

Cat
 
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