Free Hospital Care

[R. Richard]

In Britain, the National Health Service (NHS) provides hospital service, free at the point of service, or is it? The Sun newspaper sheds some light. Comments? (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...forking-out-550-a-week-for-hospital-stay.html)

How patients can end up forking out £550-a-week for hospital stay

£2million ... that's the annual profit made by Hospedia, which runs TV service in 150 hosptials

Patients are being forced to fork out a raft of fees that can see their stay in hospital end up costing them an extra £550 a week.

Today a Sun investigation reveals costs for parking, food, phones and watching TV have in some cases TRIPLED in a year.

The so-called "illness taxes" — being paid by the sick and friends and family who visit them — were already considered high by patients groups.

With average hospital car parking fees at 77p an hour — and some up to £2.50 — costs quickly mount. About 28 per cent of the 197 hospital and mental health trusts put up parking charges in 2011, according to the NHS Information Centre.

Although 16 per cent reduced prices, six trusts more than doubled them. NHS trusts make £100million on parking.

A patient who parks and stays in hospital for a week would pay £443.52 based on the average charge.

Once on the ward, the £10 a day cost of watching TV adds up to £70 a week.

Costs for snacks are also up to DOUBLE those at supermarkets. A chicken sandwich at one hospital costs £3.65 — but is £1.60 at Asda. Crisps that cost 67p are 40p elsewhere.

Patients often buy snacks like a sandwich and crisps to avoid hospital food. Buying those and a cuppa — around £1 — in the cafe will cost £37.24 a week.

Cafes and restaurants ... a sandwich can cost over a pound more than in a supermarket

Al these costs together mean some patients paying £550.76 a week.

Of these extra charges, hospitals pocket some of the parking money — but much of it also goes to managing the car park, which is sometimes outsourced.

Health trusts say they need the extra money from parking to boost ailing finances. They make no money from the telly services. But charges for TV packages have more than doubled in six years.

Patients pay up to £10 daily, while criminals in jails pay just £1 a WEEK.

£100million ... that's the amount NHS trusts make from car parking each year
The shocking figures have prompted health watchdogs to warn the cost is now out of the reach of poorer patients. Hospedia, which runs TV services in 150 hospitals, made £2million profit for the year ending March 2011.

Jacquie Pearce-Gervis, of watchdog Patient Voice, said: "I think it's pretty mean. Patients who are in for a long time will spend a lot of money on this. It is making money out of the vulnerable."

The cafes and restaurants are usually run by outside catering firms or sometimes high street brands such as Costa Coffee. Hospitals might receive a token rent but often get nothing from sales.

Katherine Murphy, chief executive of the Patients Association, said: "Going into hospital is a stressful and worrying time, but most patients don't anticipate how expensive stays can be.

"With parking charges, inflated shop prices and the exorbitant cost of some phones, the cost mounts very quickly, making a mockery of the NHS being 'free at the point of care'."

She added: "When a hospital stay is extended, people will naturally want to stay in contact with loved ones. With a ban on mobile phones still operating in some wards, patients are forced to use the expensive hospital phones, which can charge what they like."

Ms Murphy said the price of a local chat can exceed rates for international calls, making it harder for people to stay in touch with their loved ones, often when they are at their most vulnerable.

She said: "These charges represent an unfair tax on the sick, who will have no choice but to pay up if they want to keep in contact with the outside world."

Last week it emerged that a hospital was charging mums £24 for baby scan photos — prompting accusations it was cashing in. Most antenatal wards give pictures away free but Medway Maritime Hospital, Kent. raked in £180,000 in a year.

myView

By Dr KEITH HOPCROFT, Sun Doctor
TIMES are hard and hospital managers have to scrimp and save like the rest of us.

So maybe it's understandable that they're looking for money-making spin-offs such as parking, phone and TV charges – even if the hospital only picks up a proportion.

On the other hand, we don't choose to go to hospital. And it's bad enough being ill without having to worry that there's a meter running on your sick bed.

Visitors suffer, too – they have to cough up parking charges plus a hefty price for a cuppa and a bite to eat.

Hospitals already turf patients out pretty sharpish – too soon, according to some GPs.

If an 'illness tax' forced people to discharge themselves before they're fit and ready, things could backfire.

Hopefully a sensible balance can be struck.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Interesting. Let's break it down and see what is going on here.

That 550 pounds that comes out of pocket is the equivalent of $880.00 U.S. at today's exchange rate.

According to the article, 443.52 pounds is for parking at the hospital carpark for a week. By simply having a friend or family member drop the patient off and pick him up at the end of the week, that cost is avoided. Taking 443.52 from 550 leaves 106.48 in out-of-pocket expenses.

Converting 106.48 pounds to dollars gives us a sum of $170.37 U.S., out-of-pocket for a one week stay.

Last year my daughter was hospitalized for a week due to what I thought was a not very serious medical problem. The final bill was over $33,000. My out of pocket cost was over $5000.00.

I would much rather pay $170.37.

 

[LucyH]

Yes, it's easy for a person to get nickeled and dimed (or, you know, whatever the relevant currency is) to death if they don't pay attention. I've run into a similar situation in Canada. My solution was to not leave a car in the hospital lot or pay for any extra stuff I didn't need. My bill: $0. Not bad, eh?

 

[TE999]

It would seem that people in the UK that are hospitalized should not park their cars there, not watch TV or use the phone, eat hospital food exclusively and discourage visitors (unless they're willing to pay for their own parking) in order to take full advantage of the 'free' medical care the NHS provides. All citizens are taxed to pay for it so health care isn't 'free' anyway.

 

[oggbashan]

Our local council has provided a park and ride bus service to the hospital. It is much cheaper than the hospital's car park and is convenient for people visiting patients.

Before the park and ride system, the hospital car park, expensive though it was, was always full and those attending outpatient services couldn't find a car parking space at the hospital nor in the surrounding streets. Now? The car park always has spaces, there are usually free spaces in the nearby streets if you can walk far enough, and attending outpatient services is less fraught (and cheaper). If you want to pay for the convenience of parking on the hospital grounds, you can.

The hospital's income from car parking hasn't reduced significantly because the spaces are better used. They have been able to cut the parking services staff because they don't have to sort out traffic jams any more.

As for telephones/Tv? The restrictions on the use of mobile phones is only in critical areas, not in general wards. The cost of telephone calls via the outsourced system IS expensive but few use it. TV/video? It is expensive but those who want to use it are usually about to be discharged. When you are seriously ill you wouldn't want it.

Food? If you can get to it, the canteen is reasonably cheap, comparable to the local supermarket's cafe but with less choice. There is a Costa Coffee concession, but the League of Friends sells sandwiches and cold drinks, perhaps not as cheap as the supermarkets, but cheaper than Costa.

You can bring in food to inpatients.

My youngest daughter recently produced her first baby, a daughter. By request her eldest sister arrived to visit bearing fish and chips...

As usual, The Sun's story is overstated.

How many people actually stay a whole week in hospital? It is a small proportion of those who stay overnight. A more usual length of stay is 2-3 days.

 

[Stella_Omega]

i went in with a severed tendon in my pinky. I sat in hospital for three days-- 72 hours, plus-- waiting for a cance at surgery. The hospital would not let me leave, saying that they would be putting me in between life-threatening emergencies. They came in twice to get me and had to send me back because someone had come in dying. Finally, got me in at about 1:am.

My bill was nearly 12 thousand dollars. I'm almost finished paying it off four and a half years later, and that money would havee really made a difference in the quality of my life and my childrens'

So fuck you, you parsimonious persimmon.

 

[R. Richard]

Apparently NHS or Canadian free healthcare works, if you can plan your need in advance. If you have to go in, in an emergency situation, it gonna cost you.
I went in to a US hospital with a very painful torn muscle. I too had to wait, although in my case only about a day. I had insurance, which insurance I paid for. What really pissed me off is that the hospital chose to first treat the five punks who tried to strong arm rob me on the subway. While I waited, I attempted to file charges against the punks. The NYPD demurred, stating that the punks had already suffered enough. When I finally did get treatment and got out, the Mayor refused to even discuss the matter.
Back in school I knew (slightly) a girl who used to make oyster cracker sandwiches. A slice of white bread, layered with oyster crackers and then another slice of white bread. I'm quite certain that she became the dietician for a far away hospital where I had sugery for a pilonidal cyst. WHERE ARE THE HUMAN RIGHTS PEOPLE WHEN YOU NEED THEM?
The situation in Og's area is quite good. I suspect that there are any number of NHS hospitals that are not so well accessed.
I don't have NHS or Canadian coverage. I do have medical insurance, for which I pay. I also pay my copays, at time of billing.

 

[sr71plt]

The only way I could see that you'd be treated like that at the hospital, RR, is if you were being a real ass. That I could see.

 

[oggbashan]

The cost situations suggested by The Sun are optional. If you are poor or on a limited budget you can avoid almost all the additional charges, in whichever hospital you are treated.

A long time ago I had in-patient treatment in several Central London hospitals. Parking near the hospitals was very expensive, as it is anywhere within walking distance of Trafalgar Square, but my visitors came by public transport. When I left one hospital with limited walking ability I took a taxi to the railway station. That cost money but was much easier than expecting a relative to drive to London, try to pick me up from the hospital in a busy street, and drive back to Kent.

The NHS TREATMENT is still free. The extras? You might want to pay.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

I'm in a large Canadian city, and have seldom waited unduly for medical sevices, even in an overcrowded ER. Parking is optional, and very variable in cost, but all our hospitals have city bus service to within 100 yards of the entrance. Food is hospital fare - nutritionally adequate - but each hospital has a number of decent restaurant/cafes at very good prices. The cost for the medical care? $0.00. Does it come from our taxes? Yes, and I'm happy to pay so that everyone can have proper medical care.
By the way, I had a relative from the States visit for a few months. He needed some medical care, and had to pay full price because he, of course, didn't have Provincial Health Insurance. He was a bit surprised to have seen an internationally-known specialist for a lower fee than his copay was in the States.

 

[Handley_Page]

The first thing to note is that The Sun is never the most reliable of sources so anything read in it often requires a healthy dose of salt.

Our local bus service gets one to the Hospital main entrance, where the Ambulances go. Patients attending the Hospital for a period really don't leave their cars around in an insecure place.

Yes, there is the usual rip-off when dealing with a TV or wanting a telephone, but that's not too common (assuming it even works).

 

[Zeb_Carter]

First...TANSTAAFL - There ain't no such thing as a free lunch

Second...YGWYPF - You get what you pay for

 

[Tio_Narratore]

First...TANSTAAFL - There ain't no such thing as a free lunch

Second...YGWYPF - You get what you pay for

No one really claims that it's free; it is an insurance system. But when done properly, it's not for profit, but for the needs of the policy holders. I have supplemental health insurance with a company that is, ultimately, owned by my "union." They discovered they had a surplus, and rather than give big bonuses to the executives, they paid out about $600 to every member of the union.

As far as getting what you pay for, John Arbuckle may have thought that, but how often do you really get less than you paid for?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

No one really claims that it's free; it is an insurance system. But when done properly, it's not for profit, but for the needs of the policy holders. I have supplemental health insurance with a company that is, ultimately, owned by my "union." They discovered they had a surplus, and rather than give big bonuses to the executives, they paid out about $600 to every member of the union.

As far as getting what you pay for, John Arbuckle may have thought that, but how often do you really get less than you paid for?

Then you have BB - Buyer beware and while it's true that sometimes you pay too much for crap, if you do your research you will get good value for you money unless of course government regulations push the price up so high that we all get crap for the same price.

 

[oggbashan]

First...TANSTAAFL - There ain't no such thing as a free lunch

Second...YGWYPF - You get what you pay for

The UK's National Health Service is paid for by employees and employers, and general taxation. It isn't free - except at the point of delivery.

It is not run by insurance companies needing to make a profit. It costs far less per head of population than health costs in the US which do not provide universal cover.

The NHS cannot compare with US health services at their world-leading best. But for providing a good service to everyone - then it compares with the best universal health providers anywhere.

In the UK we have a choice:

1. We can rely on the NHS for all our health needs and pay no more than our existing taxation.

2. We can buy health insurance from the most expensive to the least, with expensive cover for all conditions to just contributions for better 'hotel-type' care while being treated.

3. We can belong to a mutual, friendly society, or trade union scheme that provides additional cover for the members sometimes including their own hospitals and consultants, other versions buying in such facilities.

Whichever we choose, in an emergency we are likely to need the NHS services because the NHS is best equipped to deal with emergencies such as heart attacks and traffic accidents.

We get what we pay for - free medical care for all.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Then you have BB - Buyer beware and while it's true that sometimes you pay too much for crap, if you do your research you will get good value for you money unless of course government regulations push the price up so high that we all get crap for the same price.

Actually, the government regulations--such as food labeling standards, purity standards, drug efficacy tests, auto safety standards, building codes, etc.--protect us from the crap unscrupulous vendors and manufacturers would otherwise foist upon us.

 

[Handley_Page]

Thank you, Ogg. Nicely summarised.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

The UK's National Health Service is paid for by employees and employers, and general taxation. It isn't free - except at the point of delivery.

It is not run by insurance companies needing to make a profit. It costs far less per head of population than health costs in the US which do not provide universal cover.

The NHS cannot compare with US health services at their world-leading best. But for providing a good service to everyone - then it compares with the best universal health providers anywhere.

In the UK we have a choice:

1. We can rely on the NHS for all our health needs and pay no more than our existing taxation.

2. We can buy health insurance from the most expensive to the least, with expensive cover for all conditions to just contributions for better 'hotel-type' care while being treated.

3. We can belong to a mutual, friendly society, or trade union scheme that provides additional cover for the members sometimes including their own hospitals and consultants, other versions buying in such facilities.

Whichever we choose, in an emergency we are likely to need the NHS services because the NHS is best equipped to deal with emergencies such as heart attacks and traffic accidents.

We get what we pay for - free medical care for all.

It's no less than any modern industrialized nation should provide for its citizens.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Actually, the government regulations--such as food labeling standards, purity standards, drug efficacy tests, auto safety standards, building codes, etc.--protect us from the crap unscrupulous vendors and manufacturers would otherwise foist upon us.

You named but a few of those regulation, ones that I agree are needed as not everyone is ethical. There are thousands...millions of regulation foisted upon us by the government which are as useful as tits on a bull. There are thousands of idiots in Washington thinking up these regulation just to justify their jobs which drives up the cost of everything you buy.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

You named but a few of those regulation, ones that I agree are needed as not everyone is ethical. There are thousands...millions of regulation foisted upon us by the government which are as useful as tits on a bull. There are thousands of idiots in Washington thinking up these regulation just to justify their jobs which drives up the cost of everything you buy.

No doubt many regulations are outdated. However, the fact that you don't understand their purpose doesn't mean that there is no purpose.

 

[R. Richard]

When I lived in California, I was with Kaiser. At least while a member was based in California, Kaiser provided a very good brand of healthcare for an affordable fee. If a specialist was needed, Kaiser would either pay for an outside specialist or send the patient to one of their hospitals where they had such a specialist. So much for the good part.
The Kaiser waiting rooms closely resembled a TB ward. The people in the waiting rooms (I think that they were people) resembled my early days in South Central. The care sometimes required a longish wait. Most of the women who I worked with didn't like Kaiser at all, because you rarely saw the same doctor twice and they wanted a realtionship with at least their ob/gyn doctor.
Is the NHS service like Kaiser? Can you get CAT/MRI scans, on short notice? Can you see a specialist, on short notice? How are the normal waits for service?

 

[mynameisben]

Free Tibet. Free Zimbabwe. Free Hospital Care.

My goodness. With prices this low, you'd be INSANE not to.

 

[sr71plt]

Some day I'd like to see a post from RR saying he's happy with something in life.

 

[LucyH]

Apparently NHS or Canadian free healthcare works, if you can plan your need in advance. If you have to go in, in an emergency situation, it gonna cost you.

Not in my experience.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

No doubt many regulations are outdated. However, the fact that you don't understand their purpose doesn't mean that there is no purpose.

The main purpose of most of the bullshit flowing out of Washington today is job justification. And I do understand their purpose...it's so people, the stupid ones, the lazy ones, don't have to think for themselves. Although they do have to be intelligent enough to read...I'll bet there will soon be a regulation that all warning labels be required to talk to the user because they're too stupid to read.