Forgive AND forget. Is it really possible???

[FlamingoBlue]

I can understand the forgive part, But can you ever really forget something that has been painful for you? I'm talking about the personal stuff like, you know.
And,I'm talking about stuff that was committed against you as a member of a class or a race or a religion, etc.

Forgetting isn't always so easy, and why is it even necessary. Isn't forgiveness enough??

blue

 

[Desert Amazon]

 

[willywanker]

Forgetting isn't always so easy, and why is it even necessary. Isn't forgiveness enough??

blue

I think forgiveness with a promise to never bring it up again will have to do.

I think thats where the forgetting part is supposed to come in. To often, we say we forgive but the next time there is a disagreement, we want to rehash what happened before. So while I believe you are right, you can't forget, you can make a rational choice not to ever bring it up again after its forgiven.

Well, maybe there is someone out there that could do that. Sounds good though, doesn't it?

 

[Merelan]

Cannot forget things, but can change your feeligns about them. Not easy and takes time, patience and the will to do so.
Better not to dwell on them, wallow in them. Get out and do things, change things, fill the mind with other stuff and eventually it fades to the background.

 

[Ksss]

I don't think you really ever forget an offense, but merely tuck it back into the dark recesses of the mind. Hoping fervently, the offense is never brought back to light. Forgiveness is an individual ideal. I believe some are more capable of forgiving than others.

I have lived with prejudice since I came to the USA 41 years ago. Starting with grandparents to classmates to people who were participants of the Viet Nam War. Although I am not Vietnamese, many people view ALL Orientals as such. You learn to live with their biases and move on with your life.

 

[Ambrosious]

I'm sorry, I forget. What we are talking about again?

 

[Sensua]

To Forgive and Forget come from two different parts of the person's being. Forgiveness comes from the heart. Forgeting from the intellectual part we call the brain.

Forgiveness can be enough....but it is not an easy thing to obtain. One cannot simply say..."Today I forgive" and expect the memory to be gone...though over time it will fade.

Sometimes...when forgiveness is not real, rehashing an old argument is the result. This is an unfair fighting tactic that should be left to middle school students. Collecting "ammunition" for a fight is not a friendly thing to do.

 

[Always]

After such a long time of persecution, I don't even remember it in the first place.

 

[thumbs2_ca]

.

 

[Sensua]

I think it is important not to FORGET the lessons of life. ANYONE can screw you out of what is justly yours, business or pleasure....and it is imperitive that one uses caution and EXPERIENCE!

So if you forgot, would it happen again? Could you handle that twice in your life? I couldn't.

 

[miles]

I think there are two kinds of forgiveness. One where you "pardon" or excuse someone for something bad.

The other relieves you from carrying the heavy burden of hating or blaming somone.

 

[PacificBlue]

I think forgiveness is a choice and sometimes it's a daily choice. I don't think we forget, especially when the wrong cuts us deeply. Choosing to forgive I think frees a soul to continue living.

I do think if you choose to forgive someone and tell them so, then you have to make a commitment to not bring up the infraction again in future arguments. Otherwise what was the point? It takes a lot of energy to harbor resentment, bitterness, and anger. The physical toll on the body and spirit isn't worth it in the end.

 

[Siren]

You can forgive someone hurting you

 

[lobito]

sometimes it's IMPOSSIBLE to do either...

Since you are ALL unknown to me, (as far as I know), I will say this here. Something I've told VERY FEW people close to me. I don't say this as a simpathy "getter", but rather as an example for why you can't do either sometimes.

When I was young, my uncle molested me. Something I've carried with me all my life since then. It wasn't just a one time thing, it happened over a few years. I later found out it happened to my cousin (a girl) even before me, and she reported it to her parents, to which nothing happened, it was basically dismissed.

I also found out much later in a phone call from my uncle when he asked me for forgiveness, telling me it's bothered him all his life since it hapened, (I didn't believe it by the way), that he molested my own little sister, and another female cousin as well.

My sister reported it to my Mom apparently I was to find out. But still nothing was done. All the while this was going on, he told me all this crap about how he'd hurt me if I ever told anyone, and that no one would believe me anyway. As if he could hurt me anymore than he already did.

My younger cousin who this happened to much later than I, had a chance to press charges against my uncle, but refused, which really wasn't a surprise to me. Today I see the way she is, and I see that knowing her, in a sick way she probably enjoyed it to some extent, though I can't say for sure. The way she hangs around on literally every guy that comes around her house, and more.

My sister is in the group that claims to be christian, where you forgive & forget, but she doesn't do either with him.

My other cousin that it happend to before me, has more or less forgiven him, but much like me, we've agreed with each other that we'll never forget.

Now it comes to me, I already knew when I got that phone call, that I'd never forget, BUT, I had one stipulation for him when he called and asked me to forgive him. That was that he would immediately call my sister after we talked, and appologize to her. He didn't have to aske for forgiveness because we both knew he wouldn't get it, but he HAD to say I'm sorry at least. When my sister told me he'd called and asked, then I would forgive him.

He told me yes, he would, but then had the nerve to ask me what to tell her! What a DUMBFUCK!!!!!

Well, he NEVER even attempted to call my sister. And must've known I'd never forgive or forget now. I didn't see him for 2 years after that, by his choice. It took me until 1997 to even say anything and to talk to my cousin about what happened, and my sister 2 years after that. Because we talked that one day, we became the best of friends, more than ever, and are SO close now. In that aspect it worked great for making some of us closer.

I have for a long time not wished, but rather thought that this world would be better without him on this earth. he even knows as do most family members now, that NO ONE would miss him, not even his immediate family.

SO, the answer, MY answer, is taht you just can't sometimes, do either, forgive or forget.

Lobito

(Sorry It was so long)

 

[KillerMuffin]

I was molested as well, so I understand lobito.

Forgiveness is necessary, for our own emotional well-being. Pure in the heart forgiveness.

Forgetting... that's impossible.

 

[lobito]

muffin if i may call you that...

I understand what you are saying about forgiveness being necessary, for some that's great, that's the right thing to do. But for me, I just can't at this time, maybe one day, but I seriously doubt it. He broke my trust more than once. You get two chances with me to redeem yourself if you so something stupid in your life, and he used his chances plus some of our other family members chances too. They're probably pissed about that too! (ha ha)

Seriously, all I can say is that what's good for one, isn't always the solution for the other.

People like "us" are more common than we ever will know about maybe. It's not something that is easy to talk about, though it's talked about more now, than ever.

The thing that makes me sick are the people who "claim" to have been abused to get farther along in their star status, because it may have been the "claim (proclamation ?) of the moment". Does that make sense?

 

[KillerMuffin]

Forgiving him isn't giving him anything. It's not giving into him, giving him your trust, or even having anything to do with him for the rest of your life.

Forgiving him is letting go of that hold he has over you right now. Where your anger, your pain, and your rage comes from. Forgiving him is where you get peace and it is getting rid of that last bit of control he has over you. Your behavior. When you forgive him you are telling yourself that it doesn't matter anymore, he isn't important, and the grudge that you carry is no longer burden. You will, when you're ready to. Because it's the only way to not only keep your sanity but to get a bit of mental health.

Forgiving others isn't about them. It's about your own heart and your own soul. Anger is a burden and it takes a great deal of energy to sustain. It keeps you from having normal relationships and it keeps you from being happy. The only way to get rid of anger is to get rid of the source of it. And that is the hurt.

Don't forget to forgive yourself while you're at it. No, you may know intellectually that there was nothing you could have done to stop him from hurting you and hurting your family, but that doesn't mean you don't believe that there was something you could have done in your heart.

Be happy.

And yes, that makes perfect sense, the last bit of it.

 

[lobito]

thanks KM...

your words do mean something. Like I said, not looking for simpathy, but rather just to say what I said, and show the differences in one case.

Your words will be thought about, not to mention that great avatar pic of yours, tonight! he he

Since my recent birthday, 35, I've actually changed alot mentally. it doesn't really have anything at all to do with my attitude towards him either, but about many other aspects in life, so I know what you are telling me.

Lobito

 

[Siren]

I understand Lobito

 

[KillerMuffin]

Hey, we've all got a long ways to go not matter what.

Like I said, forgetting is impossible. Probably not ever.

My fave song seem not a bit appropriate now...

"Got a pocket full of power
Got a handle on control
Take a better man than you babe
To rectify the damage to my soul..."

Sass Jordan's High Road Easy.

It's better than my old fave, Fade to Black. You've probably heard that one.

Anyway. The whole purpose of this exercise we call life is to live through it as wholly humanly as possible, right? Pain, pleasure, strife, angst, all that rot. You don't have my sympathy, I don't think you need it, let alone want it. You do have my understanding, you know, that silent nod of "I understand you, you don't have to explain it to me, you don't have to justify it to me, I know and I accept." I wish more people got the point. It's like that clique no one wants to get into. Been there, done that, my sister.

 

[lobito]

no no no, (LOL)

I'm not a girl! it seems you thought that, both of you actually, but yes, I am a man.

So ti's not just little girls he has and addiction to, among other addictions, and yes, prison is the only place other than 6 feet under for him.

That'll never happen though, his Mom, my grandmother will forever protect him, over anyone else in her life. sometimes makes me wonder if she knew all along for sure, adn either didn't care, or had something to do wiht him being molested, becasue he hinted to me in the phone call, that something amy have happened to him too. Though that's really no excuse for doing it to others.

 

[Siren]

Well, it still doesnt change anything

 

[KillerMuffin]

What Siren said, only bigger and with more vitriol. I'm good at spewing that.

Anyway, my brother (imagine my chagrin lobito even, yeeesh, and I style myself a linguist), do what's best for you.

 

[lobito]

no, Siren, you are right

it's doesn't change a thing.

You know, in a sick way I finally feel like I have power over him though. He knows I'll never forgive him, that's something else he has to live with.

We can't send him to prison, unless it's proven that another younger person was molested taht we don't yet know about, and then ONLY if the child is willing, the parents in our state, are not allowed to press charges in these cases.

To some extent, I dare say that the adults when this first happened, where more worried about how it would affect their lives, with other knowing it happened in their families, than what would happen to the "kids" lives.

 

[shadowsource]

Touching & Feeling

I'm not keen on any of this stuff. When I fuck up, and I become aware of it, I apologize. I do not say" I'm sorry if I upset you," or any of that doubletalk. I merely say I'm sorry for what I've done. Sometimes when I'm truly enraged, I will apologize while I'm yelling (as in, "I know you just work for this company and I know it's not really YOUR fault, but your damned company is driving me insane!"). I say these things to try to innoculate them from my rage. And I say them for myself, so that I will not forget my lapse.

I do not seek forgiveness. I have never asked for any, ever, in my life. If people wish to forgive me, or to forget something asinine or offensive that I've done or said, that's really their business. Nor do I grant it consciously. Some people I forgive, others I don't. It's an organic process. And sometimes I forget.