Foreign language phrases

[CPBaudelaire]

So here's the deal. One of the central characters in my new novella is an immigrant, but fairly well assimilated. I'm using a few words, endearments and sexy phrases from time to time to emphasize this part of the character's background and to hopefully, give things a slightly different flavor.

Some phrases and words are pretty easy to interpolate back to english, others not so much so. The character in question is Norwegian, so some of the world and phrases are Anglo-Saxon antecedents and root words.

The questions I'm trying to deal with are:

1. Is it a good idea in the first place - is the intended slight "foreign-ness" I want to achieve likely to take the reader out of the flow of the story?
2. Should I have a glossary at the end of the story for reference, or
3. Should I make a translation somehow more accessible on the same page? I'm particularly leery of a footnote type of arrangement, which I think is most likely to disrupt flow.

I know it's my story and characters and I can do what I want, but I am also interested in providing a good reading experience. Input and suggestions are most welcome.



CPB

 

[slyc_willie]

I've peppered in other languages into some of my stories, notably for the same reasons you want to: to add a little cultural flavor to the character. I've gotten some mixed reviews on doing so. One comment I received told me I was being racist and that the story "sounded like Borat." For the most part, though, there were either no comments about the use of foreign words or phrases (which I consider a good thing) or a comment or two about my "clever use" of French, German, or Spanish.

I would see nothing wrong with peppering in some Norwegian words here and there. I find it comes across more effectively if such words were used during a time of stress or passion, less so when it's just sort of dropped in casually. But the use of it is up to you, of course.

When submitting the story, you'd probably want to mention your use of some foreign words or phrases in the Notes section of the submission form, just to give Laurel a heads-up.

 

[patientlee]

So here's the deal. One of the central characters in my new novella is an immigrant, but fairly well assimilated. I'm using a few words, endearments and sexy phrases from time to time to emphasize this part of the character's background and to hopefully, give things a slightly different flavor.

Some phrases and words are pretty easy to interpolate back to english, others not so much so. The character in question is Norwegian, so some of the world and phrases are Anglo-Saxon antecedents and root words.

The questions I'm trying to deal with are:

1. Is it a good idea in the first place - is the intended slight "foreign-ness" I want to achieve likely to take the reader out of the flow of the story?
2. Should I have a glossary at the end of the story for reference, or
3. Should I make a translation somehow more accessible on the same page? I'm particularly leery of a footnote type of arrangement, which I think is most likely to disrupt flow.

I know it's my story and characters and I can do what I want, but I am also interested in providing a good reading experience. Input and suggestions are most welcome.



CPB

TimothyM does a good job with this. Check out his stories.

I usually use the Handy Manny approach. Say it in French or Spanish and repeat it in English.

 

[slyc_willie]

TimothyM does a good job with this. Check out his stories.

I usually use the Handy Manny approach. Say it in French or Spanish and repeat it in English.

A little trick I use, though it does not actually involve the use of foreign words (and is thus not relevant to the OP; just thought I'd share because it's an effective tool), is to place phrases or words that are supposed to be in a foreign language in angle brackets, like so:

"<Get the hell out of here!>" he yelled in Spanish.

This saves both the author and reader from having to translate words and hope they are using them correctly.

 

[patientlee]

A little trick I use, though it does not actually involve the use of foreign words (and is thus not relevant to the OP; just thought I'd share because it's an effective tool), is to place phrases or words that are supposed to be in a foreign language in angle brackets, like so:

"<Get the hell out of here!>" he yelled in Spanish.

This saves both the author and reader from having to translate words and hope they are using them correctly.

Thank you for not suggesting Google Translate. That kills me.

 

[lovecraft68]

I take the "cheap" way out.

"Be careful, little brother," Megan whispered in Latin

I have enough to do without immersing myself in rosetta stone to write a book

 

[slyc_willie]

Thank you for not suggesting Google Translate. That kills me.

It's not always accurate, either.

 

[StrangeLife]

Actually there's a fun little game you can play with Google Translate. Try translating it's output back and forth a few times and se how long it takes before the resulting phrase no longer can be recognized as the original input.


In my latest story I use a French girl with very poor english skills, who uses a mix between the two languages when she talks to americans. But I made sure to mainly use her in situations where it was impossible to misunderstand what she meant, even if it was incomprehensible to many. And the one time when she needed to say a lot, another character with good skills in french was "conveniently present" to translate.

This is my preferred approach to using foreign words. Including a glossary would break the fourth wall and reduce the immersibility of a story...

 

[R. Richard]

Use of foreign phrases is very tricky, unless you're a native speaker of the language.
"Besa me culo" is used to mean "Kiss my ass." "Besame el culo" is more correct.
"Besame coola" is more frequently used.

 

[slyc_willie]

Actually there's a fun little game you can play with Google Translate. Try translating it's output back and forth a few times and se how long it takes before the resulting phrase no longer can be recognized as the original input.


In my latest story I use a French girl with very poor english skills, who uses a mix between the two languages when she talks to americans. But I made sure to mainly use her in situations where it was impossible to misunderstand what she meant, even if it was incomprehensible to many. And the one time when she needed to say a lot, another character with good skills in french was "conveniently present" to translate.

This is my preferred approach to using foreign words. Including a glossary would break the fourth wall and reduce the immersibility of a story...

This reminds me of the hot foreign exchange student in Better Off Dead.

"He keeps trying to put his testicles all over me!"

"His what?"

"You know, like octopus!"

"Oh, you mean tentacles. Not the same thing . . . ."

 

[StrangeLife]

Use of foreign phrases is very tricky, unless you're a native speaker of the language.
"Besa me culo" is used to mean "Kiss my ass." "Besame el culo" is more correct.
"Besame coola" is more frequently used.

But it's a great tool for comic relief...

A: "Besame coola!"

B : "Thanks. You're pretty cool too."

 

[patientlee]

I take the "cheap" way out.

"Be careful, little brother," Megan whispered in Latin

I have enough to do without immersing myself in rosetta stone to write a book

And don't get me started on Rosetta Stone!

 

[patientlee]

It's not always accurate, either.

Yes, but its inaccuracies are how I catch the cheaters!

 

[StrangeLife]

This reminds me of the hot foreign exchange student in Better Off Dead.

"He keeps trying to put his testicles all over me!"

"His what?"

"You know, like octopus!"

"Oh, you mean tentacles. Not the same thing . . . ."

What would we do without foreigners...

 

[patientlee]

Use of foreign phrases is very tricky, unless you're a native speaker of the language.
"Besa me culo" is used to mean "Kiss my ass." "Besame el culo" is more correct.
"Besame coola" is more frequently used.

I used "Cójame el culo" recently in a story.

 

[Swilly]

Maybe I'll write in math equations. I hear those are foreign to some people!

 

[R. Richard]

The problem with using foreign phrases is highlighted by the very old joke about, "The greatest improvement in Mexican American relations since the US Ambassador learned that 'Besame coola' is NOT how they say good morning in Mexico."

 

[patientlee]

Maybe I'll write in math equations. I hear those are foreign to some people!

Las matématicas otra vez! Ay ay ay!

 

[patientlee]

The problem with using foreign phrases is highlighted by the very old joke about, "The greatest improvement in Mexican American relations since the US Ambassador learned that 'Besame coola' is NOT how they say good morning in Mexico."

Sounds like a frozen drink from dunkin donuts.

 

[Swilly]

Las matématicas otra vez! Ay ay ay!

Yup. (Google translate CAN be helpful!

 

[soflabbwlvr]

A lot of my stories feature Spanish speaking characters, so I frequently include a few Spanish phrases or words. The really tricky part is working with slang. Cuban slang differs from Mexican slang which differs from Puerto Rican slang, etc. One of my stories features Colombian, Cuban, and Honduran characters. I had to research every expression to make sure it was consistent with the dialect of the speaker. I ended up cutting out several of them because I could not quickly find confirmation of proper usage.

 

[Tsotha]

So here's the deal. One of the central characters in my new novella is an immigrant, but fairly well assimilated. I'm using a few words, endearments and sexy phrases from time to time to emphasize this part of the character's background and to hopefully, give things a slightly different flavor.

Some phrases and words are pretty easy to interpolate back to english, others not so much so. The character in question is Norwegian, so some of the world and phrases are Anglo-Saxon antecedents and root words.

The questions I'm trying to deal with are:

1. Is it a good idea in the first place - is the intended slight "foreign-ness" I want to achieve likely to take the reader out of the flow of the story?
2. Should I have a glossary at the end of the story for reference, or
3. Should I make a translation somehow more accessible on the same page? I'm particularly leery of a footnote type of arrangement, which I think is most likely to disrupt flow.

I know it's my story and characters and I can do what I want, but I am also interested in providing a good reading experience. Input and suggestions are most welcome.



CPB

I think it's cheesy. It reminds me of bad movies and pathetic characters saying lewd things to a foreigner, only to find out that the foreigner understands what is being said. Drum roll.

Non-native English speakers are often doing their best to speak "good" English, because they want to be understood, and because they want to fit in. Reasons to revert to their own language:

1) They are VERY pissed off, and don't care about not being understood anymore, only about venting what they are feeling with whatever words come up first. Freezing up while trying to insult someone doesn't quite cut it.

2) They don't know how to say something. Either they are asking for the meaning of a word, or trying to find words to say something (e.g. explaining an expression from their own language). In which case it probably won't be sexy, it will be awkward as they're struggling. Maybe sexy if you're going for the "cute/shy foreigner trying to find words".

If someone is "well assimilated", he will be proficient with most common uses of the language, and mess up when it comes to uncommon uses. Or they'll mess up something small again and again. Supposedly, they are trying to fit in.

Source: myself, non-native.

 

[TimothyM]

TimothyM does a good job with this. Check out his stories.

Aww thanks Lee. I don't do it all the time, but when I do use Danish phrases (as in Patrick's Personal Card) I usually take two approaches at the same time:

In the text I write something before or after the sentence that makes the meaning clear. More or less

At the end of the chapter I write translations of each sentence / word (in italics so it's clearly separate from the story). People who want to be absolutely sure can check out the meaning there. I've seen other writers do the same, so can't take credit for that solution.

 

[CPBaudelaire]

Thanks for all of the thoughtful feedback, everyone!

I have also tried as best I can to find "non-Google Translate" verification/authentication of the phrases I use, but it is a tedious, uncertain process.
I'm starting to think I should try to seek out somebody bilingual to crosscheck my phrases and words. I strive to be as accurate as possible when I do something like this and it's important (to me at least) that I get it right.
Does anyone think there's a possibility I might find someone in the AH or Editor's Forum who might be able to assist me? Obviously I'll start a new thread, if there's a chance. Or does anyone have any other suggestions on how to get a real person to help?

CPB

 

[patientlee]

Thanks for all of the thoughtful feedback, everyone!

I have also tried as best I can to find "non-Google Translate" verification/authentication of the phrases I use, but it is a tedious, uncertain process.
I'm starting to think I should try to seek out somebody bilingual to crosscheck my phrases and words. I strive to be as accurate as possible when I do something like this and it's important (to me at least) that I get it right.
Does anyone think there's a possibility I might find someone in the AH or Editor's Forum who might be able to assist me? Obviously I'll start a new thread, if there's a chance. Or does anyone have any other suggestions on how to get a real person to help?

CPB

Http://www.wordreference.com

Excellent online foreign language dictionaries with a forum. I always find what I'm looking for.