Forced submission

[RJMasters]

I would like to start a serious discussion about forced submission. I am just going to throw out my thoughts and then shut up and listen for a while. I may ask for clarification should I have questions, but I have no other agenda here but to listen and learn.

Why is it that there is such a high arousal fantasy factor attached to forced submission, but the reality is rarely, it at all, realistic or practical.

In some ways after thinking on this I see this as the opposite reflection of the rape fanstasy in reverse. To some degree this is why I attribute high arousal factor to it.

Perhaps within a scene's scope, I can see how this can be expressed and be very hot, but from a relationship standpoint, its expression resembles more of a fish on dry land flapping around.

So there is fantasy and there is reality, I guess I am asking what part does forced submission really take? And what does that say to the realisticness as opposed to playing at being dominant/submissive?

What does forced submission imply at the relationship level? Good/bad? Real or unrealistic? Why?

I would appeciate your input to help me sort out my thinking on this topic.

 

[alice_underneath]

RJ,

My apologies, but I don't understand what you are talking about here.

Would you please explain what you mean by "forced submission"?

That sounds like an oxymoron to me.

Alice

 

[Recidiva]

Forced submission IS rape.

 

[RJMasters]

forced dominantion.

Not neccessarily physical. Could be emotional and mental as well. Maybe that explains a bit better.

 

[Recidiva]

forced dominantion.

Not neccessarily physical. Could be emotional and mental as well. Maybe that explains a bit better.

Nope, sorry, that's not a distinction to me. Still rape.

 

[alice_underneath]

To me, the word 'submission' (in the D/s sense) means: voluntarily submitting to the authority of another.

The word 'forced' implies taking something without the approval or consent of the other person.

Which is why I am struggling with the implications involved in putting these words together.

Are you talking about coercion? Something like.... do what I tell you or else I'll ___________ (fill in the blank with whatever threat you want) ?

 

[rosco rathbone]

I don't know anything about forced submission, but pushing someone out of their comfort zone can be good.

 

[BLACK BART]

Forced anything in real life is just that.

FORCED

Usually a severely punished crime and NOT good for those that suffer through it.

"fantasy" is just that and though I've roleplayed in real life it IS and always WILL be with consent of my partner.

Once a person loses track of the difference between reality and fantasy, letting fantasy spread into real life...they becoma a danger to themselves and everyone around them

Sadly it's those closest to them that get hurt the worst and usually first.

Roleplaying though...For my partner and myself has been a pleasurable experience, broadened our boundries, and increased our desires for each other.

 

[Recidiva]

To me, the word 'submission' (in the D/s sense) means: voluntarily submitting to the authority of another.

The word 'forced' implies taking something without the approval or consent of the other person.

Which is why I am struggling with the implications involved in putting these words together.

Are you talking about coercion? Something like.... do what I tell you or else I'll ___________ (fill in the blank with whatever threat you want) ?

Well, coercion is fine, but you're still essentially wearing down someone until they consent to it, hook or crook. They see it's in their exhausted best interest somehow, mistaken or not.

 

[Recidiva]

I don't know anything about forced submission, but pushing someone out of their comfort zone can be good.

Can be, but also can be absolutely disastrous.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Can be, but also can be absolutely disastrous.

Without that possibility, it would be boring and thus dull.

 

[Recidiva]

Without that possibility, it would be boring and thus dull.

I have yet to have a boring orgasm. And I've had lots.

 

[BLACK BART]

I have yet to have a boring orgasm. And I've had lots.

LOL

Agreed!

 

[Pure]

refractory souls often enjoy* being pushed out of their comfort zones


*in a sense yet to be defined

 

[Hester]

Well, coercion is fine, but you're still essentially wearing down someone until they consent to it, hook or crook. They see it's in their exhausted best interest somehow, mistaken or not.

i get bored with a partner who doesn't try to corrupt me. orgasms are irrelevant in this sense.

 

[Recidiva]

i get bored with a partner who doesn't try to corrupt me. orgasms are irrelevant in this sense.

This phrase...right here...

"orgasms are irrelevant"

This I do not understand. Does not compute.

 

[Recidiva]

refractory souls often enjoy* being pushed out of their comfort zones


*in a sense yet to be defined

That's assuming I'm ever in a comfort zone.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hmm, corrupting someone though still does not equate to forced submission, just presenting something they might find irresistable even though they never expected it to be so. As to forced submission, are you referring to times when with your SO's consent you use force to get them to submit to something (usually somehting they cannot do easily without a little persuasion of one sort or another being employed) more so than meaning you are forcing them to submit in general RJ?

Catalina

 

[Hester]

This phrase...right here...

"orgasms are irrelevant"

This I do not understand. Does not compute.

= not satisfying in and of themselves

 

[rosco rathbone]

I have yet to have a boring orgasm. And I've had lots.

You and I may be wired differently, then. I have had many boring orgasms.

 

[BLACK BART]

Hmm, corrupting someone though still does not equate to forced submission, just presenting something they might find irresistable even though they never expected it to be so. As to forced submission, are you referring to times when with your SO's consent you use force to get them to submit to something (usually somehting they cannot do easily without a little persuasion of one sort or another being employed) more so than meaning you are forcing them to submit in general RJ?

Catalina

Seems to me you've drifted back to roleplay and consent between two adults, a little rough sex can be great fun, even result in a welt or bruise (or two)

But in a healthy relationship it is still consenual (even if unexpected )

 

[Recidiva]

= not satisfying in and of themselves

You and I may be wired differently, then. I have had many boring orgasms.

Yes, I'm afraid I've learned that my orgasm is absolute. I know how to get there if someone else doesn't, and all is well with the world.

As for being corruptible, I must be tempted with something. Nothing is more tempting than my own orgasm. THUS...the equation is complete.

 

[Pure]

interesting point hester. perhaps 'corruption' consists in unwanted pleasure in whatever is being enforced. or in the tendency to return to what was shamefully undergone.

hester said, i get bored with a partner who doesn't try to corrupt me. orgasms are irrelevant in this sense.

 

[Recidiva]

interesting point hester. perhaps 'corruption' consists in unwanted pleasure in whatever is being enforced. or in the tendency to return to what was shamefully undergone.

hester said, i get bored with a partner who doesn't try to corrupt me. orgasms are irrelevant in this sense.

Corruption to me means that you have more flesh of temptation to be eaten away before you're nothing left but bone.

I've been through a few walls of fire, and I'm more the skeleton of the Terminator.

At least that's what I tell myself.

 

[Hester]

interesting point hester. perhaps 'corruption' consists in unwanted pleasure in whatever is being enforced. or in the tendency to return to what was shamefully undergone.

hester said, i get bored with a partner who doesn't try to corrupt me. orgasms are irrelevant in this sense.

it's about boundaries to me. i like to push them and have mine pushed. i like the endorphins, the weak knees, the powerplay. a partner without this inherent drive ends up being too "nice" for me and boredom ensues.