"For God and my Country"

eyer

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Jun 27, 2010
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How essential was God in the lives of so many of the founders and framers of this great nation?

And how essential did they believe God's favor to be for its future?

I start off with - who else - George Washington:

"The Hand of providence has been so conspicuous in all this, that he must be worse than an infidel that lacks faith, and more than wicked, that has not gratitude enough to acknowledge his obligations." - George Washington's letter of August 20, 1778 to Brig. General Thomas Nelson, in John C. Fitzpatrick, editor, The Writings of George Washington, Vol. XII (Washinton: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1932), p. 343.

On Washington's Christian character:

"Woodlawn, 26 February, 1833

Sir,

I received your favor of the 20th instant last evening, and hasten to give you the information, which you desire.

Truro Parish [Episcopal] is the one in which Mount Vernon, Pohick Church [the church where George Washington served as a vestryman], and Woodlawn [the home of Nelly and Lawrence Lewis] are situated. Fairfax Parish is now Alexandria. Before the Federal District was ceded to Congress, Alexandria was in Fairfax County. General Washington had a pew in Pohick Church, and one in Christ Church at Alexandria. He was very instrumental in establishing Pohick Church, and I believe subscribed [supported and contributed to] largely. His pew was near the pulpit. I have a perfect recollection of being there, before his election to the presidency, with him and my grandmother...

He attended the church at Alexandria when the weather and roads permitted a ride of ten miles [a one-way journey of 2-3 hours by horse or carriage]. In New York and Philadelphia he never omitted attendance at church in the morning, unless detained by indisposition [sickness]. The afternoon was spent in his own room at home; the evening with his family, and without company. Sometimes an old and intimate friend called to see us for an hour or two; but visiting and visitors were prohibited for that day [Sunday]. No one in church attended to the services with more reverential respect. My grandmother, who was eminently pious, never deviated from her early habits. She always knelt. The General, as was then the custom, stood during the devotional parts of the service. On communion Sundays, he left the church with me, after the blessing, and returned home, and we sent the carriage back for my grandmother.

It was his custom to retire to his library at nine or ten o'clock where he remained an hour before he went to his chamber. He always rose before the sun and remained in his library until called to breakfast. I never witnessed his private devotions. I never inquired about them. I should have thought it the greatest heresy to doubt his firm belief in Christianity. His life, his writings, prove that he was a Christian. He was not one of those who act or pray, "that they may be seen of men" [Matthew 6:5]. He communed with his God in secret [Matthew 6:6].

My mother [Eleanor Calvert-Lewis] resided two years at Mount Vernon after her marriage [in 1774] with John Parke Custis, the only son of Mrs. Washington. I have heard her say that General Washington always received the sacrament with my grandmother before the revolution. When my aunt, Miss Custis [Martha's daughter] died suddenly at Mount Vernon, before they could realize the event [before they understood she was dead], he [General Washington] knelt by her and prayed most fervently, most affectingly, for her recovery. Of this I was assured by Judge [Bushrod] Washington's mother and other witnesses.

He was a silent, thoughtful man. He spoke little generally; never of himself. I never heard him relate a single act of his life during the war. I have often seen him perfectly abstracted, his lips moving, but no sound was perceptible. I have sometimes made him laugh most heartily from sympathy with my joyous and extravagant spirits. I was, probably, one of the last persons on earth to whom he would have addressed serious conversation, particularly when he knew that I had the most perfect model of female excellence [Martha Washington] ever with me as my monitress, who acted the part of a tender and devoted parent, loving me as only a mother can love, and never extenuating [tolerating] or approving in me what she disapproved of others. She never omitted her private devotions, or her public duties; and she and her husband were so perfectly united and happy that he must have been a Christian. She had no doubts, no fears for him. After forty years of devoted affection and uninterrupted happiness, she resigned him without a murmur into the arms of his Savior and his God, with the assured hope of his eternal felicity [happiness in Heaven].

Is it necessary that any one should certify, "General Washington avowed himself to me a believer in Christianity?" As well may we question his patriotism, his heroic, disinterested devotion to his country. His mottos were, "Deeds, not Words"; and, "For God and my Country."

With sentiments of esteem,

I am, Nelly Custis-Lewis"

(Nelly Custis-Lewis was Martha Washington's granddaughter and George's step-granddaughter and had lived with the Washingtons since her birth in 1779; when Nelly's father died, George and Martha adopted both Nelly and her brother George Washington Parke Custis; Nelly lived at Mount Vernon til she was married in 1799...the year George Washington died).

At the end of the Revolutionary War, when the announcement of official peace arrived in America, George Washington issued his final sentiments. In his circular letter to the States on June 8, 1783, even though Washington gratefully acknowledged that we had won the war, he urged them to recall something of much greater importance and to remember…

"…the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy Nation."

While encamped on the banks of a river, Washington was approached by Delaware Indian chiefs who desired that their youth be trained in American schools. In Washington's response, he first told them that "Congress... will look on them as on their own children." That is, we would train their children as if they were our own. He then commended the chiefs for their decision:

"You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention."

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-wall/wal-g011.html

Edit:

I'm removing the former last paragraph:

According to George Washington, what students would learn in American schools "above all" was "the religion of Jesus Christ."

...because the website writer included "American schools" in his commentary on GW's quote.

GW's quote:

"You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention."

...stands as verified.

Thanks...
 
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Here's an actual quote from Thomas Jefferson

To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802
http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html
 
Anyone who bothers to read about George Washington in any detail can clearly see he was a deist. Even his Minister said he was. He was less of a Christian than Thomas Jefferson.
 
Anyone who bothers to read about George Washington in any detail can clearly see he was a deist. Even his Minister said he was. He was less of a Christian than Thomas Jefferson.
Eyer supports personal liberty. By that he means that he would like to be freely allowed to force his religious beliefs on every other citizen of the country, whether they like it or not, and further free to ridicule those who believe differently from him.
 
Eyer supports personal liberty. By that he means that he would like to be freely allowed to force his religious beliefs on every other citizen of the country, whether they like it or not, and further free to ridicule those who believe differently from him.

But only because George Washington said it was okay.
 
Eyer supports personal liberty. By that he means that he would like to be freely allowed to force his religious beliefs on every other citizen of the country, whether they like it or not, and further free to ridicule those who believe differently from him.

Please provide just a single example of anything I've ever posted on this board that would give the slightest of evidence to your slander of "force"...

...and while you're at it, please provide a single example of me "ridiculing" anyone for "believing differently from" me.

Back up your mouth, Sonny, if you're man enough...
 
Thomas Jefferson credited Samuel Adams as being the spark for the American Revolution...

"Our unalterable resolution would be to be free. They have attempted to subdue us by force, but God be praised! in vain. Their arts may be more dangerous then their arms. Let us then renounce all treaty with them upon any score but that of total separation, and under God trust our cause to our swords." - Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, April 16, 1776

"Revelation assures us that "Righteousness exalteth a Nation" - Communities are dealt with in this World by the wise and just Ruler of the Universe. He rewards or punishes them according to their general Character. The diminution of publick Virtue is usually attended with that of publick Happiness, and the publick Liberty will not long survive the total Extinction of Morals." - Samuel Adams, letter to John Scollay, April 30, 1776

"We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom alone men ought to be obedient. He reigns in Heaven, and with a propitious eye beholds his subjects assuming that freedom of thought and dignity of self-direction which He bestowed on them. From the rising to the setting sun, may His kingdom come!" - Samuel Adams, after signing the Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776

"He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all. Our forefathers threw off the yoke of Popery in religion; for you is reserved the honor of leveling the popery of politics. They opened the Bible to all, and maintained the capacity of every man to judge for himself in religion." - Samuel Adams, speech at the State House, Philadelphia, August 1, 1776

"There is One above us who will take exemplary vengeance for every insult upon His majesty. You know that the cause of America is just. You know that she contends for that freedom to which all men are entitled - that she contends against oppression, rapine, and more than savage barbarity. The blood of the innocent is upon your hands, and all the waters of the ocean will not wash it away. We again make our solemn appeal to the God of heaven to decide between you and us. And we pray that, in the doubtful scale of battle, we may be successful as we have justice on our side, and that the merciful Savior of the world may forgive our oppressors." - Samuel Adams, letter to the Earl of Carlisle and Others, July 16, 1778

"Religion and good morals are the only solid foundation of public liberty and happiness." - Samuel Adams, letter to John Trumbull, October 16, 1778

"We, therefore, the Congress of the United States of America, do solemnly declare and proclaim that... We appeal to the God who searcheth the hearts of men for the rectitude of our intentions; and in His holy presence declare that, as we are not moved by any light or hasty suggestions of anger or revenge, so through every possible change of fortune we will adhere to this our determination." - Samuel Adams, Manifesto of the Continental Congress, October 30, 1778

"Religion in a Family is at once its brightest Ornament & its best Security." - Samuel Adams, letter to Thomas Wells, November 22, 1780


"If ever the Time should come, when vain & aspiring Men shall possess the highest Seats in Government, our Country will stand in Need of its experienced Patriots to prevent its Ruin." - Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, October 24, 1780
 
camptown races ? really ? racist much ?

Dude, you're done. Your whole racism cover has been blown. Now you're praying something will get you off the hook - like Shagly does with his "coon" threads.

You're a racist idiot; everyone knows it. Just accept it.
 
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No one, I don't think, denies many of the founding fathers were religious and devout Christians. Luckily they were secure enough in their beliefs to leave religion out of the constitution, except for staying that the state should not meddle in it.

The painting of Washington praying at Valley Forge is a fake. Apparently he never prayed in public, if he prayed at all. Even Martha Washington never saw him pray.
 
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Please provide just a single example of anything I've ever posted on this board that would give the slightest of evidence to your slander of "force"...

...and while you're at it, please provide a single example of me "ridiculing" anyone for "believing differently from" me.

Back up your mouth, Sonny, if you're man enough...
I'll tell you what. Why not post an example of where you think you've shown honest curiosity about and respect for an opinion that differed from yours--where your response was not to dismiss, or condemn, or condescend, or mock, or disregard, but to explore the other person's viewpoint with respect. Or even to acknowledge that both viewpoints might exist with equally valid status.

If that's an easy task, then you get to knock me out in a single punch. And if it's hard, then the very post I'm responding to is evidence enough of my position.

I'm giving you first punch. You don't like me? Knock me out.
 
So you aren't man enough to offer anything but your slanderous mouth...

...no surprise.
 
I'll tell you what. Why not post an example of where you think you've shown honest curiosity about and respect for an opinion that differed from yours--where your response was not to dismiss, or condemn, or condescend, or mock, or disregard, but to explore the other person's viewpoint with respect. Or even to acknowledge that both viewpoints might exist with equally valid status.

If that's an easy task, then you get to knock me out in a single punch. And if it's hard, then the very post I'm responding to is evidence enough of my position.

I'm giving you first punch. You don't like me? Knock me out.

Response:

So you aren't man enough to offer anything but your slanderous mouth...

One of the most reasonable requests I've seen in months on here...and, not only couldn't you meet the challenge, but you responded to it with venom.

You lose this time, by anyone's definition. You're so pathetic that it's not even amusing.
 
So you aren't man enough to offer anything but your slanderous mouth...

...no surprise.
OK, it's slander, and I'm a jerk with a big mouth. You can kill two birds with one stone, then.

Post a single example of you displaying the slightest bit of non-dismissive respect for or intellectual curiosity about a position or opinion that differs from yours. That shuts my mouth and proves the slander.

You imply, by your outrage, that this would be an easy task. If so, with slander in the air, is there a reason to avoid it?
 
Please provide just a single example of anything I've ever posted on this board that would give the slightest of evidence to your slander of "force"...

My sig line.

As I said elsewhere, your absurd attempt to keep "established law" OUT of a legal discussion on the 4th Amendment qualifies as force.
 
]
~ Patrick Henry ~​

"It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace, but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" - Patrick Henry,address to the Second Virginia Convention, St. John's Church, Richmond, Virginia, March 23, 1775.

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." - Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia House of Burgesses, May, 1765

"That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity towards each other." - Patrick Henry, Article 16, Draft of the First Constitution of the Commonwealth of Virginia (Henry was a member of the drafting committee), June 12, 1776

"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

"The Bible is worth all the other books which have ever been printed." - Patrick Henry

"Three millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Beside, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of Nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us." — Patrick Henry

"When the American Spirit was in its youth, the language of America was different; Liberty, sir, was then the primary object." — Patrick Henry
 
"The Bible is worth all the other books which have ever been printed." - Patrick Henry

The staple quote used by right wingnuts who can't understand any book besides the Bible (and usually they don't fully understand that one, either).

By the way, can someone find a source for that quote? What was the original context?
 
...he would like to be freely allowed to force his religious beliefs on every other citizen of the country, whether they like it or not, and further free to ridicule those who believe differently from him.

Still waiting for evidence instead of just your slanderous, personal opinion...

My sig line.

As I said elsewhere, your absurd attempt to keep "established law" OUT of a legal discussion on the 4th Amendment qualifies as force.

And, by that same logic, your rigid insistence to stick to "established law" IN a legal discussion on the 4th Amendment qualifies as force, too...

...how more ridiculous can you get?

Back on the topic you erroneously bastardized from...

...maybe you can help Sonny find just one example of me posting anything resembling a stance I take where I believe I should "be freely allowed to force" my "religious beliefs on every other citizen of the country, whether they like it or not", and just one example of me "ridicul"ing "those who believe differently from" me.

Surely two infamous minds working so closely together can come up with just one example of each...

BTW:

Got any comments on the thread topic...

...or are you just getting really comfortable in personal attack mode.
 
Still waiting for evidence instead of just your slanderous, personal opinion...

You are waiting for evidence that you ridicule opinions different from you own, is that right? I'll make a deal with you. We'll go one for one. I do yours and then you do mine. We'll keep going until one of us runs out of examples.

For my first example that you ridicule opinions different from your own, I'll simply continue the quote I cut into here. Ready?

And, by that same logic, your rigid insistence to stick to "established law" IN a legal discussion on the 4th Amendment qualifies as force, too...

...how more ridiculous can you get?

Now it's your turn. Show me a single example of your demonstrating respect for or curiosity about an opinion that is different from yours.

Go!
 
]
~ Ben Franklin ~​

"I've lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing Proofs I see of this Truth — That God governs in the Affairs of Men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire can rise without his Aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that except the Lord build the House they labor in vain who build it. I firmly believe this, — and I also believe that without his concurring Aid, we shall succeed in this political Building no better than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our Projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a Reproach and Bye word down to future Ages."

“My dear friend, do not imagine that I am vain enough to ascribe our success [Revolution] to any superiority…If it had not been for the justice of our cause, and the consequent interposition of Providence, in which we had faith, we must have been ruined. If I had ever before been an atheist, I should now have been convinced of the being and government of a Deity!”

“I must own I have so much faith in the general government of the world by Providence that I can hardly conceive a transaction of such momentous importance to the welfare of millions now existing, and to exist in the posterity of a great nation, should be suffered to pass without being in some degree influenced, guided, and governed by that omnipotent, omnipresent, and beneficent Ruler.”

"Where liberty dwells, there is my country."

"This will be the best security for maintaining our liberties. A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins."

"Freedom is not a gift bestowed upon us by other men, but a right that belongs to us by the laws of God and nature."

"Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God."

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and His Religion, as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to His divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon..."

"We hear of the conversion of water into wine at the marriage in Cana as of a miracle. But this conversion is, through the goodness of God, made every day before our eyes. Behold the rain which descends from heaven upon our vineyards; there it enters the roots of the vines, to be changed into wine; a constant proof that God loves us, and loves to see us happy."
 
And, by that same logic, your rigid insistence to stick to "established law" IN a legal discussion on the 4th Amendment qualifies as force, too...

...how more ridiculous can you get?

I never set such a condition. I simply assert that reference to established law and precedent is often valuable in predicting where courts may next go on that particular subject. There is no valid reason to exclude that which is relevant.

Citation of current law and/or an accurate summation of its evolution in support of a stated opinion also strikes me as more persuasive than mere opinion alone.

Back on the topic you erroneously bastardized from...

...maybe you can help Sonny find just one example of me posting anything resembling a stance I take where I believe I should "be freely allowed to force" my "religious beliefs on every other citizen of the country, whether they like it or not", and just one example of me "ridicul"ing "those who believe differently from" me.

Surely two infamous minds working so closely together can come up with just one example of each...

BTW:

Got any comments on the thread topic...

...or are you just getting really comfortable in personal attack mode.

Nope. All I got is what I gave.

I haven't been following your religious beliefs all that closely.
 
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