First person vs. Third person

[Boxlicker101]

I think the problem with first-person stories (it is my preferred POV) is that new writers don't realize the story lives and dies by the strength of the narrator's personality. That personality has to be strong enough to prevent a reader from displacing the 'I' with their own self.

The ideal in the first person POV is not to tell a story that the reader is in the shoes of the narrator, but one where the reader rides on the shoulder or the wake of the narrator.

In erotica, I see a lot of writers that use the First Person POV spend time developing all other characters EXCEPT the narrator, but that's the MOST important character to develop in this POV.

Sincerely,
ElSol

I can't entirely agree with that. I write mostly first person stories but the woman is always in charge, even when there are three men involved. I try to write to appeal to women and most of the descriptions are of her responses and reactions. I try to portray the narrator as being an easy-going and sexually adept man who concentrates on providing pleasure for the central woman, thereby gaining the most possible pleasure himself.

This is basically how I would be if the stories had any truth to them and it seems to work. I get a fair number of emails from women telling telling me how they get off on the stories or how much they like them, which is what I am trying for. I probably get more compliments from women than from men.

 

[elsol]

I can't entirely agree with that. I write mostly first person stories but the woman is always in charge, even when there are three men involved. I try to write to appeal to women and most of the descriptions are of her responses and reactions. I try to portray the narrator as being an easy-going and sexually adept man who concentrates on providing pleasure for the central woman, thereby gaining the most possible pleasure himself.

This is basically how I would be if the stories had any truth to them and it seems to work. I get a fair number of emails from women telling telling me how they get off on the stories or how much they like them, which is what I am trying for. I probably get more compliments from women than from men.

I don't see this as a disagreement...

I'd like to define something though, I don't discuss this as the First Person Perspective or Third Person Perspective...

I use

First Person Point of View
Third Person Point of View

Perspective as you use it relates to something else that is clearer in the third person... that being 'whose thoughts, feelings, reactions' is the reader getting.

You mention what I consider the second greatest weakness of the First Person POV for new writers; they forget that the female has feelings, emotions, and physical reactions.

They get lost in the physical reactions of what the 'I' feels that they lose a number of readers because the reader wants to read about HER.

So two MAJOR issues...

1) The narrator must be as well developed as the other characters IN THE STORY.

2) Don't forget that there's someone else in the story with feelings, emotions, and reactions to physical sensations... you have to remember that the narrator has to 'interpret' what she's doing, but that's not too hard... assume he's actually a 'sensitive' male.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Seattle Zack]

I think the problem with first-person stories (it is my preferred POV) is that new writers don't realize the story lives and dies by the strength of the narrator's personality. That personality has to be strong enough to prevent a reader from displacing the 'I' with their own self.

That's interesting, elsol, I had never thought of it like that, but it's very true. I read a lot of "hardboiled detective" novels, and it's always the thought of "what are 'we' going to do next" that keeps the story going.

Too many first-person erotica stories, the narrator becomes a cipher. What motivates him/her? Why is he/she doing this? Why should I care about this person?

Not Box's stories, obviously, because he's quite talented, but some of the first-person erotica on Lit reads like a diary entry. "And then I ... And then I ... And then I ..."

I only have one first-person story posted on Lit, but it's gotten good votes and feedback. I much prefer writing in limited third-person, but that's just my own preference.

--Z

 

[jack_straw]

I personally think it's easier to write in first person, because it's more like you're just having a conversation with the reader. The trick to writing first person, though, is you always have to remember that you're seeing everything that goes on through that character's eyes and through that character's experience, and only through that character's eyes and experience. You can't bring in extraneous information that the character doesn't actually see or experience, and that can be a problem if you're not focused on your story.

Writing third person is more novelistic, in that you can move from one tangent to another, from one character's perspective to another. You don't have maintain as narrow a perspective.

Trickiest story I ever did was one I did in second person, present tense. But it worked, because I was able to bring in some background that read like third person, but was being told in second.

 

[Barnaby]

First Person Sometimes Takes Over

Back when I was just a reader, I much preferred third person. When I managed a bookstore, I had several customers who loudly decried what they called "I" books and would return any first person novels purchased in error.
That said, most of my published output has been in first person. Sometimes I'll start it in third person but first person bits keep creeping in of their own accord until the entire piece ultimately gets rewritten completely as a first person story. I never considered the psychology of this.
Obviously, I agree with those who say that if you develop the narrator as well as (or perhaps better than) anyone else in the story, it can work. In my stories, the narrative voice is not always "me." In fact, I have written several first person stories from the point of view of a female character. I'm told I did rather well. (Somewhere on the 'Net there's a page that supposedly can identify the gender of any author by calculating various scientific algorithims or something. When I pasted in my female perspective stories, it identified me as a female in all but one instance.)
Another thing is that my stories are generally known for being somewhat lighthearted and that sense of humor is much more easily instilled from first person.
Anyway, I guess my overall point is that, at least in my case, first person seems to flow morenaturally and most people who take the time to comment seem to like it. Try my stories SECRETS KEPT AS WISHES and A MOST INTERESTING LIFE. One male perspective, one female. I'd post a link but I can't figure out this new @#@$%!!! layout!
Barnaby

 

[Barnaby]

My Most Popular Story

Errrr...on the other hand, my most popular story, PURPLE DAZE, is written in third person and that came pretty naturally, too. Hmmmm. Oh well.
Barnaby

 

[Green_Gem]

Point of View

I've written most of my work from the third person point of view and only ventured into first person recently. The two first person stories, 'Lustful Liaisons' and A Strange Seduction' have done surprisingly well though being two of the highest scoring stories to my credit, so obviously they had some appeal for readers.

Writing from the two different pov's is very different and I think that it really depends on the type of story and what you want it to convey. While first person turned out to be easier than I thought it would be, I still enjoy writing third person pov.

Green_Gem

 

[Boxlicker101]

The majority of my stories are the erotic adventures of George Boxlicker and they are written in the first person because I am describing what happened to "me". All of them are 100% fiction, unfortunately. I am now getting more into writing third person and I like this because I can describe somebody's thought processes or motivation. I will probably do more of this but I will still write about "my" adventures because they are my fantasies. Besides that, I like to make up stories about specific readers and these should be in the first person.

 

[Guest]

 

[Caroline Covington]

I write in the first person for one simple, selfish reason: First person is forbidden in scientific writing.

But apart from that, there have been some worthy works written in the first person. I don't have the books in front of me, but I think that Atwood's "Surfacing" and parts, if not all of "The Blind Assasin" were in 1st person narrative.

Oh yes, there was this other book written in 1st person. I think the opening line went as follows:

"Call me Ishmael."

My point is that so long as it's well written, either POV can work. I have no preference.

 

[MechaBlade]

I prefer third person for reasons already listed (easier to be general), but another reason I write in third person is because it helps me distance me from my characters, who are often terribly evil people, sometimes with fetishes I don't have. For this same reason, I sometimes write in first person: I have one series of stories where the character is reminiscent of myself.

Also, it's much easier to write a story with many characters in 3rd person.

 

[Carmenica Diaz]

I think the mode of narration depends on the story – style should follow substance.

 

[Tanuki]

The use of second person (e.g. I saw you walking across the room.) in fiction sucks. And not in a good way.

Yes, as soon as I see that, I hit the back button.

I enjoy 1st person writing, because I have to really get into the mind of the character to write it. For writing erotica, that's a fun thing to do.

As the Doc mentioned, describing emotions and reactions is what makes a story erotic, and writing 1st person is a good mental exercise in focusing on those things.

I got lots of feedback on my 2nd story, which is 1st person, but no one ever commented on the point of view. But I did get a fair number of 1s, so maybe they prefer 3rd person?

 

[Tanuki]

I think the problem with first-person stories (it is my preferred POV) is that new writers don't realize the story lives and dies by the strength of the narrator's personality. That personality has to be strong enough to prevent a reader from displacing the 'I' with their own self.

The ideal in the first person POV is not to tell a story that the reader is in the shoes of the narrator, but one where the reader rides on the shoulder or the wake of the narrator.

In erotica, I see a lot of writers that use the First Person POV spend time developing all other characters EXCEPT the narrator, but that's the MOST important character to develop in this POV.

Sincerely,
ElSol

Wow, that is a great point, thanks! I'm working on the 2nd chapter of my first person story, so I will try to keep that in mind as I write. I wonder if my story is more popular with women, I'm not sure, since I can't tell from most of the feedback. Maybe guys have trouble reading a 1st person story with a female protagonist? I hadn't thought about that.

 

[ANiceGuy]

Third person is my preference.

Third person is easier for me to read and write. I especially if more thantone person is focused on during the story.

 

[kiwiwolf]

Nearly all of my writing is in the first person perspective. As soon as I wrote a third person story it bombed big time so I've stuck to what I know and what is successful for me.

I guess all I can really offer you in the way of advice is to stick to what you feel comfortable with. It doesn't matter what you write or how... you will always have your detractors.

Shane

 

[CWatson]

I think the mode of narration depends on the story – style should follow substance.

That's how I decide it. Some stories require a closer look into the character's psyche; sometimes we need to hear it straight from them. At such times, 1st-person is the most effective. At other times we want a more detached view, seeing only action without motivation. That's what 3rd-person is for.

And, of course, there are compromises.

I've seen stories that use two 1st-person perspectives: the story has two main characters, and it switches between their 1P views, generally during chapter breaks. The primary threat is the possibility of reader disorientation: you have to make it perfectly clear who's head you've just moved into. And there's also the 3P-focused perspective, where you narrate in 3P but stick primarily to one character's thoughts, observations and actions. If 3P-normal is all establishing shots and panoramic views, the 3P-focused is a series of close-ups of one actor's face. And even then you can turn to look at another character, though you must again take pains to make it clear when this happens if you don't plan to use a paragraph break or chapter break (I don't, and very few people have called me on this). At this point there's practically no difference between 1P and 3P, which is part of why I like it.

I've never written in 2P ("I wrapped my lips around your" ahem "pulsing trunk of manhood") but I've seen it used well; I've also seen it used horribly. It occurs to me that the deciding factor in whether it works or not, is whose perspective is employed. I think that you'd have to narrate the story from the point-of-view of the "I", even though there's a "you" involved. So, "I" can't say, "You moaned as my tongue slid down your" etc, I'd have to say "I heard you moan as my" etc. I have no idea whether "you" are the kind of person who moans when someone goes down on you, and attempting to impress actions on you would snap you out of the story right quick. It might help--it might--if "I" were to, as it were, take responsibility for that moaning, since I only heard it, there's no guarantee you actually did it. (And, I mean, I can't just leave "you" silent, you've gotta react somehow. Unless "I'm" really bad at this whole going-down-on thing. Distinct possibility.) In short, in a 2P setting, I think the narrator has to be the active partner and all the reporting has to come from them. "You," for your part, just get to sit there while "I" do all the work. And wouldn't you like that idea anyway?


~CWatson
(contributing nothing useful)

 

[elsol]

Wow, that is a great point, thanks! I'm working on the 2nd chapter of my first person story, so I will try to keep that in mind as I write. I wonder if my story is more popular with women, I'm not sure, since I can't tell from most of the feedback. Maybe guys have trouble reading a 1st person story with a female protagonist? I hadn't thought about that.

Actually, I find a lot of male readers enjoy the female-first-person POV because they 'imagine' a woman is writing it and that's what SHE feels, wants, thinks.

That can be used to allow the narrator to cross from character to 'person' in the reader's mind.

They thinks it's YOU... and YOU are a person, therefore the character is a person. Once, you've crossed that divide with your first-person narrator, you're home free.


Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Softouch911]

I'm relying on elsol, not to comment on what s/he said but to build on it. When your readers asked you to be more involved, they may have felt that your narrator was too "remote" -- let me get traditional on you.

The traditional 3rd person is called "omniscient," like God, able to see everywhere at once but like God, not very approachable. I think this is where "hopping" is most awkward and intrusive. Once, but not since the 19th century, this was the typical narrator and one of the reasons stories written this way tend to sound old-fashioned.

The first person, as almost everyone has said, is tremendously difficult to pull off. If, for no other reason, you are physically limited to what your narrator can see/hear/taste/etc. And you are limiting yourself to one person's experience. To make the story interesting, either the experience or the person has to be tremendously engaging.

So at the turn of the 20th C. fiction writers developed a technique I think everyone recalls but I don't think anyone has mentioned yet: it was called "limited 3rd person" or "limited omniscient." In it, the narrator speaks in the 3rd person but acts like a guardian angel, sitting (figuratively) on the shoulder of his/her main character (only one character at a time qualifies!) and seeing everything they do with real empathy for their position, almost as if they were in 1st person. The difference is that they are also "omniscient," at least in the sense of knowing more about the character than the character does about him/herself. If the character is a jerk, they will empathize but will also let you know about it. If a danger is around the corner they may let us in on it (omnisicient) even while feeling bad for the character.

The benefit is that you can have a character with all sort of limitations of culture or personality or ...whatever .... and the narrator can present the person sympathetically but also know the 'real' story. Many, many stories on Lit are written this way.

The second-most popular story on Lit. right now is "Service," and it is written in this point of view. Here are its first sentences:

John just knew that there had to be a way to capitalize on the fact that he knew his twin sister Kelly had lost her virginity and was regularly getting laid. Even though they were only 18 years of age, John had enough of his father in him to always try to find a way to capitalize on a situation. That's what comes from having a stockbroker for a father

And the most popular story right now is "'A' My Name is Alice" which is (ironically for this discussion) written in first person.

Imagine a big guy with a rubber mallet in your chest and he's banging on a steel drum. That's what it felt like the first time AJ touched me. I didn't feel it with my first boyfriend and I sure didn't feel it with my husband the first time. I was sitting at the kitchen table reading the paper

If you read the story, note that one of the main pov reasons it is so effective is that the author, Emmah, speaks from the narrators pov of course but spends an awful lot of time talking about what the other characters are doing (though because she is limited to Alice, she can't know exactly what other characters are thinking but has to have some outside evidence to judge it on -- the way we do in real life). Her character reacts to them, and that is what makes the pov work because she's not talking so much about what she is doing but about what is happening to her.

I hope this makes sense.

Disagreement, as always, is welcome

Softie, putting podium away

 

[Aussie Worm]

The first person perspective done well can be even better than a third person perspective. When its done well it should be able to put the reader in the story and beleive that they are that character.

Your version of "done well" may vary.

I have written my stories 'The Office Boy" (10 parts) in first person perspective and I am quite pleased how most of it turned out.

 

[msboy8]

I write in both perspectives, but mostly 3rd. I do first person thinking in Italics when I write 3rd person.

 

[Munachi]

hm...

i haven't written any stories on here yet, but i suppose i could give my opinion anyway - i think it very much depends on the type and style of the story. Both first and third person can sound good when done well - in some rare occasions even second person can, and a change of perspective can be good too. There just are stories for which one or the other point of view is more appropriate...

As for my own writing that I have done just for myself so far, I notice that I usually prefer to use first person, and if I use third person then often in a way that it is like a first person view that just gramatically uses third person.

 

[msboy8]

I prefer 3rd person because it reads less like a letter to Penthouse, and it lets the reader get into whichever character he or she prefers. When I read, I like to have that kind of choice.

That said, I'll take anything as long as the story isn't written in 2nd person. That is annoying!

2nd person can be very hard to get right. Done right I can enjoy it.

 

[Alexis Haines]

I enjoy 1st person writing, because I have to really get into the mind of the character to write it. For writing erotica, that's a fun thing to do.

I so agree with Tanuki's comment. I recently submitted my first story and I wrote it in the first person because I read somewhere it was the easiest style for a beginner, (maybe I wasn't paying attention—I'm surprised to see it described as "difficult" here! ) But mostly I thought it would be fun, and it was! I had some good votes, and one great comment (no negative ones).

One thought, Tanuki... if no one comments on your perspective, maybe that's because you got it right? It's a little like makeup, I think. No one notices it unless it's really messed up.

Having said that, I can't decide how to vote. The first person is fun and immediate, and I think the limited omniscient offers more ways to portray deeper levels of interaction. So I agree with the 'horses for courses' argument (some run better on soft turf, some like it firm underfoot ).

I'm very attracted to the old style of erotica (late Victorian/Edwardian); it seems absorbing, poignant and, well, erotic, to me. I seem to remember it was written mostly in either the traditional or limited third person so I am going to that perspective for my next try. So far, it's not very natural for me, if that's worth anything to anyone.

(Barnaby, I stumbled through all kinds of hoops to get this link in here so don't feel discouraged.)
The Peek-Chique Account

Thanks for this thread, it's interesting.
AH