First person POV; genderless narrator.

[KittyOfSteele]

Last week, as I was journaling I came up with a question that I figured it would make a story. As I brainstormed the thing, I came up with something that is quite spartan compared to other eroticas I've read. I am no stranger to anonymous protagonists. I love them, especially if the story unfolds from their POV (they're the narrators). I've done some before, I've published one here...

Now, here's the thing that's slightly brand new territory around me. I've delved with this in the past to experiment with it, and I think this story would work better if it wasn't just a first person POV, but a first person POV from someone who is so anonymous that there is no gender to the character. It could be a man, it could be a woman, it could be an enby if there's an audience for that type of erotica here (outside of T&C), for all I care gender is pointless to the story, at least for me as the author. The reader can assign to them whatever gender they want. To tick off some expected questions: yes, this is an erotica, and yes, sex is key to the story.

My question is... how would you go to do this? How would you write a first person story in which the narrator, who is also the protagonist, has no defined gender throughout the story, and is never revealed who they are?

 

[Bamagan]

Last week, as I was journaling I came up with a question that I figured it would make a story. As I brainstormed the thing, I came up with something that is quite spartan compared to other eroticas I've read. I am no stranger to anonymous protagonists. I love them, especially if the story unfolds from their POV (they're the narrators). I've done some before, I've published one here...

Now, here's the thing that's slightly brand new territory around me. I've delved with this in the past to experiment with it, and I think this story would work better if it wasn't just a first person POV, but a first person POV from someone who is so anonymous that there is no gender to the character. It could be a man, it could be a woman, it could be an enby if there's an audience for that type of erotica here (outside of T&C), for all I care gender is pointless to the story, at least for me as the author. The reader can assign to them whatever gender they want. To tick off some expected questions: yes, this is an erotica, and yes, sex is key to the story.

My question is... how would you go to do this? How would you write a first person story in which the narrator, who is also the protagonist, has no defined gender throughout the story, and is never revealed who they are?

None of the reflexive pronouns (I, me, my, etc.) are gendered in English, so it doesn't seem like it would be an issue for you, unless I'm misunderstanding the question. As long as the narrator isn't describing their physiological reactions (or masturbation techniques) to whatever they're viewing, aside perhaps from very generic things like heavier breathing or raised temperature, it can be left to the reader to decide. Well, I guess you might also have to be wary of narrator interactions with others outside of pure voyeurism, but how much of a problem that would be depends on what kind of story you're planning to tell.

 

[Plathfan]

Not sure what you’re going for. First-person, anonymous, genderless narrator? Who tells us nothing about themselves: no name, no background, nothing to anchor us. No meaningful dialogue to offer clues or context. No one even calls them by name. And then there’s sex... with no mention of body parts? Honestly, it reads like someone trying to be deep while hiding everything that makes a story human.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

None of the reflexive pronouns (I, me, my, etc.) are gendered in English, so it doesn't seem like it would be an issue for you, unless I'm misunderstanding the question. As long as the narrator isn't describing their physiological reactions (or masturbation techniques) to whatever they're viewing, aside perhaps from very generic things like heavier breathing or raised temperature, it can be left to the reader to decide. Well, I guess you might also have to be wary of narrator interactions with others outside of pure voyeurism, but how much of a problem that would be depends on what kind of story you're planning to tell.

Language is not an issue. I'll be writing it in English, and even if I wrote in Spanish, gender isn't a concern (unless we're talking about nouns and verb conjugations to begin with).

Is not really about voyeurism, as there will be constant interaction with a woman. Hands can get involved, but I've used that in my experiments for a while that it starts to feel like a cliche at best, and a hand fetish story at worst. Nothing wrong with hand fetish though; I've written those too (there's one published here too). My question is more about how to blur the gender with words beyond with what I've tried, which is what I've mentioned thus far.

Not sure what you’re going for. First-person, anonymous, genderless narrator? Who tells us nothing about themselves: no name, no background, nothing to anchor us. No meaningful dialogue to offer clues or context. No one even calls them by name. And then there’s sex… with no mention of body parts? Honestly, it reads like someone trying to be deep while hiding everything that makes a story human.

Well, I don't really care if this succeeds or flops, I'm doing this for myself, to answer that question I wrote. Sometimes my mind decides on something avant-garde, other times is grounded. This is my mind being avant-garde and experimental, and my goal is to learn from it.

Also, when I said anonymous, I don't necessarily mean a blank slate. This isn't an erotica, but you don't need to know who the driver is in Drive to connect to him. Same goes for the man with no name played by Clint Eastwood, or the batshit crazy narrator of Fight Club. That's where I'm aiming at, but going one step further. Whether I publish it or not is my choice at the end of the day, and whether it succeeds or it flops is not under my control. The only thing that matters to me is writing the thing.

 

[NotWise]

A first person, genderless character sounds a lot like a third person narrator.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

A first person, genderless character sounds a lot like a third person narrator.

If you happen to be in my shoes, would you write it in third person?

 

[Bramblethorn]

My question is... how would you go to do this? How would you write a first person story in which the narrator, who is also the protagonist, has no defined gender throughout the story, and is never revealed who they are?

I did it like this: https://literotica.com/s/the-wasp-of-st-judiths

It is a very constraining choice, but it can work for the right story.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think it's a great idea! It adds an element of mystery, because most readers will be eager to find out what the narrator's gender is. By shifting attention away from gender you can focus it on something else. You'll have to deal carefully with the MC's interactions with others, especially romantic interests.

I'd start with the end: you say sex is "key" to the story. In what sense? Figure that out and build the story from there.

 

[Bramblethorn]

A first person, genderless character sounds a lot like a third person narrator.

Writing in English, third person pretty much obliges one to pick a male or female pronoun for your protagonist, or pick "they"/"other" which is an attention-getting choice.

First person lets one use "I", which doesn't commit to any particular gender but also doesn't draw attention to that choice. With the story I linked above, some readers noticed that I never specified the narrator's gender, but others just made assumptions without noticing that I hadn't specified.

It also gives the option of deliberately misleading the audience by implication without overtly lying. Prodigy's "Smack My Bitch Up" (all the content warnings!) is an example in video form.

 

[Voboy]

I suspect, when describing the sex bits, you'd need to resort to a number of phrases like...

"He touched my center"
"I moaned as her hand touched my most intimate place"
"My genitals quivered"

Those kinds of formulations would strike me as strained, to the point where I'd nope out of the story the moment I encountered them. But not every reader is like me, or maybe you'll be more clever than that; if so? Go for it.

I don't actually think a lot of the sexual descriptions would change much? I know what my own orgasm feels like, but I don't know anyone else's; for that reason, when I write a character who's having one, I'm using my imagination anyway. And a lot of the phrases could be unisex: tensed muscles, a sudden relaxation, a gush.

 

[NotWise]

If you happen to be in my shoes, would you write it in third person?

Can't say, since I don't know what "it" is.

What I was imagining is a narrator who addresses the readers in first person, but relates the story in third person. I think I did that with the storyteller in The Third Ring and The Third Ring - Tamsin of Sky Village.

Also in my imagination, it would be a challenge for the narrator to be a main character in the story and still be androgynous and anonymous. We pick our challenges.

 

[ElectricBlue]

My question is... how would you go to do this? How would you write a first person story in which the narrator, who is also the protagonist, has no defined gender throughout the story, and is never revealed who they are?

You'd have to edit very closely, to make sure you didn't make a slip. It would be doable, but might confuse readers. Most readers, I suspect, want some kind of an anchor, to live vicariously through your characters.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

I did it like this: https://literotica.com/s/the-wasp-of-st-judiths

It is a very constraining choice, but it can work for the right story.

I'll make sure to read that and take some notes on the techniques you've used. I'm glad I'm not the only one crazy enough to do spartan things.

I think it's a great idea! It adds an element of mystery, because most readers will be eager to find out what the narrator's gender is. By shifting attention away from gender you can focus it on something else. You'll have to deal carefully with the MC's interactions with others, especially romantic interests.

I'd start with the end: you say sex is "key" to the story. In what sense? Figure that out and build the story from there.

I think I'll have to expand my answer to that question. Sex is key because the question relates to how sexual arousal and fear have a few things in common in their chemistry. I'm not doing a hard sci-fi here, but more a philosophical question based around an anxiety attack I had last week based on an arrest that happened way too close home, and that could've been me if I didn't play my cards right a decade ago.

I suspect, when describing the sex bits, you'd need to resort to a number of phrases like...

"He touched my center"
"I moaned as her hand touched my most intimate place"
"My genitals quivered"

Those kinds of formulations would strike me as strained, to the point where I'd nope out of the story the moment I encountered them. But not every reader is like me, or maybe you'll be more clever than that; if so? Go for it.

I don't actually think a lot of the sexual descriptions would change much? I know what my own orgasm feels like, but I don't know anyone else's; for that reason, when I write a character who's having one, I'm using my imagination anyway. And a lot of the phrases could be unisex: tensed muscles, a sudden relaxation, a gush.

LOL! Those phrases made it sound like an AI wrote that! If there's one thing I've learned from Marquis de Sade and John Cleland that I'll never forget is that euphemisms exist, and Cleland was a master at it, even if they are hilarious at times.

I think I can wee my way out of it creatively (but not too creative). Good suggestion though.

Can't say, since I don't know what "it" is.

What I was imagining is a narrator who addresses the readers in first person, but relates the story in third person. I think I did that with the storyteller in The Third Ring and The Third Ring - Tamsin of Sky Village.

Also in my imagination, it would be a challenge for the narrator to be a main character in the story and still be androgynous and anonymous. We pick our challenges.

Lucky for me I love challenges; that's why I'm writing about the same thing for a year and writing a book 10 minutes daily. I haven't updated my progress just yet, but as of the time of writing this message, I broke the 20K barrier, and I'm on day 160.

Anyway, I'll make sure to read those up and take some notes of the techniques you've used to see if they apply.

You'd have to edit very closely, to make sure you didn't make a slip. It would be doable, but might confuse readers. Most readers, I suspect, want some kind of an anchor, to live vicariously through your characters.

You understood my goal. The anchor is already given: it's the question I didn't specify in the OP, a question that remains in my journal partially answered. My reason to remove the gender is to bridge further the gap between reader and story without relying on the second person. I know it is possible from the storytelling perspective as I've done so as a Dungeon Master for my D&D group many times, and I've done it in Spanish, which is an even more gendered language than English. I just want to see if its doable with erotica, and by the writings I've done to experiment, it seems possible.

I'll make sure to edit closely though.

 

[VallesMarineris]

Language is not an issue. I'll be writing it in English, and even if I wrote in Spanish, gender isn't a concern (unless we're talking about nouns and verb conjugations to begin with).

Is not really about voyeurism, as there will be constant interaction with a woman. Hands can get involved, but I've used that in my experiments for a while that it starts to feel like a cliche at best, and a hand fetish story at worst. Nothing wrong with hand fetish though; I've written those too (there's one published here too). My question is more about how to blur the gender with words beyond with what I've tried, which is what I've mentioned thus far.



Well, I don't really care if this succeeds or flops, I'm doing this for myself, to answer that question I wrote. Sometimes my mind decides on something avant-garde, other times is grounded. This is my mind being avant-garde and experimental, and my goal is to learn from it.

Also, when I said anonymous, I don't necessarily mean a blank slate. This isn't an erotica, but you don't need to know who the driver is in Drive to connect to him. Same goes for the man with no name played by Clint Eastwood, or the batshit crazy narrator of Fight Club. That's where I'm aiming at, but going one step further. Whether I publish it or not is my choice at the end of the day, and whether it succeeds or it flops is not under my control. The only thing that matters to me is writing the thing.

I can recommend two successful literary works with non-gendered protagonists. First is Murderbot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Murderbot_Diaries

The MC, SecUnit, is a cyborg. It's non-sexual and proud. And has a low opinion of humans, especially when they do squicky sex things. Great reads (it's a series) and very funny. The Apple TV series made from is good too, but the visuals make SecUnit more male, so start with the books.

For a different perspective, there is Ancillary Justice, by Ann Leckie:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancillary_Justice

It's a sci-fi novel in which the whole interstellar civilization is nongendered. Everyone uses feminine pronouns, but it's clear that some of the characters are male. There's even some sex mentioned without giving away the genders of the participants. The ruler of this empire, by the way, is a shared-mind group of clones, any of whom could be either sex. A mind-bending read.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I can recommend two successful literary works with non-gendered protagonists. First is Murderbot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Murderbot_Diaries

The MC, SecUnit, is a cyborg. It's non-sexual and proud. And has a low opinion of humans, especially when they do squicky sex things. Great reads (it's a series) and very funny. The Apple TV series made from is good too, but the visuals make SecUnit more male, so start with the books.

Murderbot is great, but a different type of non-gendered - the distinction between "gender: none" and "gender: not visible to reader", which I think is what OP was aiming for.

I wasn't thrilled about that particular casting choice when it was announced, because being genderless is important to who MB is, but I'm more comfortable with it after watching the first three episodes. Yes Skarsgård's face is more masc than the books would suggest, but the acting still conveys MB as being "it" rather than "he".

 

[KittyOfSteele]

I can recommend two successful literary works with non-gendered protagonists. First is Murderbot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Murderbot_Diaries

The MC, SecUnit, is a cyborg. It's non-sexual and proud. And has a low opinion of humans, especially when they do squicky sex things. Great reads (it's a series) and very funny. The Apple TV series made from is good too, but the visuals make SecUnit more male, so start with the books.

For a different perspective, there is Ancillary Justice, by Ann Leckie:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancillary_Justice

It's a sci-fi novel in which the whole interstellar civilization is nongendered. Everyone uses feminine pronouns, but it's clear that some of the characters are male. There's even some sex mentioned without giving away the genders of the participants. The ruler of this empire, by the way, is a shared-mind group of clones, any of whom could be either sex. A mind-bending read.

I've never heard of those. I don't have those in my personal collection, and we don't have it at my workplace. I might have to hit the online libraries to see if I could borrow a copy.

The bit about Ancillary Justice is something that I've seen before, in a videogame released years before.

Murderbot is great, but a different type of non-gendered - the distinction between "gender: none" and "gender: not visible to reader", which I think is what OP was aiming for.

Yep: gender not visible to the reader. Then again, "gender: none" creatures are something I've seen in the monster-fucking niche. Not an erotica, but there's even a genderless brain character in VA-11 Hall-A who seems to be having a blast living like that.

 

[StillStunned]

I was going to say I've written two genderless 1P narrators, but then I realised that one of them is a genderless 2P.

Love at First Sight is deliberately genderless, but there were only a few moments where I needed to pay attention. The focus of the entire story is on the narrator's love interest, with no physical interaction. Still, I had to make sure that the references to masturbating could be read for either gender.

I think things like this only work if they're relatively short. They're an interesting experiment, like that Prodigy video, but as a rule I think readers prefer to have a bit more clarity to create a picture in their mind.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I think things like this only work if they're relatively short. They're an interesting experiment, like that Prodigy video, but as a rule I think readers prefer to have a bit more clarity to create a picture in their mind.

Yeah, although my memory of my motivations is not 100% reliable, I think one of the reasons I used it in the story I linked above is that I was deliberately trying to create a foggy, disoriented feel, something like a fugue state.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

My question is... how would you go to do this? How would you write a first person story in which the narrator, who is also the protagonist, has no defined gender throughout the story, and is never revealed who they are?

This is how I did it.

https://literotica.com/s/our-most-private-place-750-word-25

Some even commented about it.


(Not a happy ending)

 

[MillieDynamite]

It's been done. Owen Wister wrote a little tale about a cowboy from an unnamed, unknown, genderless (as in never mentioned) observer's point of view. The Virginian, nowhere in the text, do they identify themself, their sex, any relationship to other characters, or explain how they know what happens in private moments between only the Virginian alone with a single person. The closest to that is when "We were fishing." No one called out, "Hey, Joe," "old pard," "buddy," or anything else.

"Smile when you call me that!" the Virginian
Opening Paragraph

Some notable sight was drawing the passengers, both men and women, to the window; and therefore I rose and crossed the car to see what it was. I saw near the track an enclosure, and round it some laughing men, and inside it some whirling dust, and amid the dust some horses, plunging, huddling, and dodging. They were cow ponies in a corral, and one of them would not be caught, no matter who threw the rope. We had plenty of time to watch this sport, for our train had stopped that the engine might take water at the tank before it pulled us up beside the station platform of Medicine Bow. We were also six hours late, and starving for entertainment. The pony in the corral was wise, and rapid of limb. Have you seen a skilful boxer watch his antagonist with a quiet, incessant eye? Such an eye as this did the pony keep upon whatever man took the rope. The man might pretend to look at the weather, which was fine; or he might affect earnest conversation with a bystander: it was bootless. The pony saw through it. No feint hoodwinked him. This animal was thoroughly a man of the world. His undistracted eye stayed fixed upon the dissembling foe, and the gravity of his horse-expression made the matter one of high comedy. Then the rope would sail out at him, but he was already elsewhere; and if horses laugh, gayety must have abounded in that corral. Sometimes the pony took a turn alone; next he had slid in a flash among his brothers, and the whole of them like a school of playful fish whipped round the corral, kicking up the fine dust, and (I take it) roaring with laughter. Through the window-glass of our Pullman the thud of their mischievous hoofs reached us, and the strong, humorous curses of the cow-boys. Then for the first time I noticed a man who sat on the high gate of the corral, looking on. For he now climbed down with the undulations of a tiger, smooth and easy, as if his muscles flowed beneath his skin. The others had all visibly whirled the rope, some of them even shoulder high. I did not see his arm lift or move. He appeared to hold the rope down low, by his leg. But like a sudden snake I saw the noose go out its length and fall true; and the thing was done. As the captured pony walked in with a sweet, church-door expression, our train moved slowly on to the station, and a passenger remarked, “That man knows his business.”

 

[Carnevil9]

I wrote a story like that, deliberately keeping both characters' genders unspecified. I don't know if you'd call it First Person or Second Person, but the only pronouns were I/me/mine and you/yours. It got low scores but some appreciative comments: A Very Dear Friend

 

[THBGato]

My question is... how would you go to do this? How would you write a first person story in which the narrator, who is also the protagonist, has no defined gender throughout the story, and is never revealed who they are?

You can say loads!

Just give them a genderless name like Sam or Riley or Ashley or Jordan. Have them dress in jeans and T-shirt. Give them a job, a career and whole backstory. They can talk about brothers, sisters, exes, parents, friends, none of which will gender them - you'll just have to deliver all that info during dialogue so they say things like, "Well, we broke up because she had to move for work. It wasn't acrimonious - just one of those things. I couldn't go with her as my dad was going through chemo and I needed to be there for him."

During the sex scenes have them take the lead, be the giver, the one who fucks the other. You might need to stick to oral/toys. I mean you could still say things like, "I had my hand down the front of my trousers, frantically masturbating even as my tongue swirled around her clit/his cock." Masturbating is pretty gender neutral - we all do it!

I can see that working well. Have fun with it.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

I'm actually impressed by the amount of people who've done this before, both here and outside. I still have to go through your stories though; I started a blank page today to try out your suggestions and examples, and I now have a better grasp around this concept. Hell, I even took one of my fully-fleshed out characters and made them genderless for this one attempt in order to make the practice round easier, and so far I'm having a blast, and I found a way to make sex scenes work... which is what @THBGato mentioned.

 

[Britva415]

Last week, as I was journaling I came up with a question that I figured it would make a story. As I brainstormed the thing, I came up with something that is quite spartan compared to other eroticas I've read. I am no stranger to anonymous protagonists. I love them, especially if the story unfolds from their POV (they're the narrators). I've done some before, I've published one here...

Now, here's the thing that's slightly brand new territory around me. I've delved with this in the past to experiment with it, and I think this story would work better if it wasn't just a first person POV, but a first person POV from someone who is so anonymous that there is no gender to the character. It could be a man, it could be a woman, it could be an enby if there's an audience for that type of erotica here (outside of T&C), for all I care gender is pointless to the story, at least for me as the author. The reader can assign to them whatever gender they want. To tick off some expected questions: yes, this is an erotica, and yes, sex is key to the story.

My question is... how would you go to do this? How would you write a first person story in which the narrator, who is also the protagonist, has no defined gender throughout the story, and is never revealed who they are?

I wouldn't do this at all unless the narrator's genderlessness was their gender identity (agender or nullgender or genderfree or others) and the narration reveals that early on.

Or at the very, very least, it would be really hard to succeed with a story like this without hanging a lampshade upon the genderlessness. Again - at an early point in the narration.

There are too many stories where, because of the first-person point of view, the reader doesn't know and can't tell the narrator's gender identity until the author just happens to "leak" it in a totally unintentional way.

Like, it doesn't even occur to the author that what they're writing doesn't let the reader perceive the narrator's gender the way the author does because the author already knows it.

These stories are infuriating. Half the time, I find out twelve paragraphs in that the narrator isn't the gender I imagined. The other half of the time, I just nope out before even finding out what's in their pants or under their shirt or on their credit card or their birthday card.

That's how to not succeed. To succeed, the writing would have to make clear that either there literally isn't a gender as a factual matter, or, that the mystery of the unknown gender is deliberate for some good reason.

Either that, or, the writing would have to be so good and the story would have to be so compelling that not knowing and not being able to tell the narrator's gender identity doesn't impede the reader's progress AND becomes a satisfying element to the complete story. As in, like, it's a story which couldn't be told any other way and probably still depends on genderlessness being the actual identity of the narrator.

You know what I'm saying? I'm trying to say something like "if this is only done as an experiment, as a cool writing exercise," and, without a real plan for why this specific plot of this specific story actually depends on being told in a way which either doesn't ever reveal the gender or does eventually reveal that the narrator is literally genderless, then it won't succeed.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

I wouldn't do this at all unless the narrator's genderlessness ...

In mine above, it just isn't mentioned. It's never an issue.

One of the comments:

"What's interesting is that there's nothing specifically sibling based (I almost wrote brother/sister, but realized you never said the narrator was male: nice touch there)"

Another:

" We don't know what they looked like, what sex the sibling is, what they did for a living... anything."


The funny thing about it is that I didn't intend it that way. I just started typing and just never put that detail in. I was almost surprised at the comments, because I had basically forgotten it.