Fired for Dirty E-mail

[Whispersecret]

I read on Sunday that the Dow company fired a ton of people for forwarding dirty e-mail on the company computers. I thought it was unfair that they fired people without warning them that that was unacceptable. Apparently there was a policy booklet that all the employees received, and in that booklet was their ruling on dirty e-mail, but I think that even so, the people deserved a warning first. Some of the workers had been working for decades for the company. Some of them have fathers and grandfathers who worked for Dow.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Ambrosious]

Can they forward them to me?

They read it, then stop whining and deal with it. No probation. No parole. They knew better, or should have. Man, I sound brutal, don't I. Must be the super spermies...

 

[HSWriter]

I think it is a little harsh.. but, as an employer, if you let one thing slip, then you can lose control of your employees...

Listen to me, I am supporting the iron fist... DAMN THE MAN, SAVE THE EMPIRE!

 

[Chuckus]

Well maybe I agree and disagree with their firing all in one. They should have been given a WARNING first and IF they continued then they should have been fired.

My first query though is in that policy booklet, was their a statement about a Warning for the first offense? Then after the first offense dismissal? If no such statement was in the booklet, then they should have gotten at least a strong warning first.......then if they continued dismissal.

But it is in the policy book, about diry emails......so they have legal grounds for the firing, but I think you should in the very nature given a Warning first and THEN if it continued dismissal.

 

[*Lazer*]

I wonder what a "dirty email" contains. Could it be they considered it sexual harassment because it went to someone who was offended? I think they should have been warned or maybe given time off but fired seems harsh. However a lot of companies have a zero tolerance sexual harassment procedure.

 

[shit4brains]

Own my own business--"shit4brains Air Freight"--can't be fired by anyone but myself..

 

[teresafannin]

My company has a Zero Tolerance policy on any kind of sexual anything. We require employees to sign a form whenever we get any kind of policy change. Anyone who signs it without reading it, deserves what they get, if they violate a policy, IMO. If you are adult enough to have a job, you should be adult enough to behave like a professional.

 

[SeXy ReDHeD]

If I remember correctly, I think I heard that Dow is/was planning to lay off a lot of employees--maybe this was a way of getting rid of employees (some highly paid ones if they'd been there awhile) without going through the hassle of layoffs.

 

[Whispersecret]

I don't believe there was anything in the booklet that specified that a warning would be given, nor that violation would result in job loss. But I'm not sure.

Yes the whole thing was started by one person complaining of seeing something offensive on a computer monitor.

Apparently, these were all factory floor workers, most of whom don't even have computers of their own. Also, it was said in the article that in the factory that sexual calendars, cartoons, jokes, etc have been circulated verbally and on paper (copied on company Xerox machines) for, well, forever. And that, while the company frowned upon that practice, never did anything about that. And now, all of a sudden, the rules change and YOU'RE FIRED. I realize that corporations need to cover their asses in case of lawsuits, but there should be a warning system, even if it's only one warning.

 

[Bigdog]

If I remember correctly, I think I heard that Dow is/was planning to lay off a lot of employees--maybe this was a way of getting rid of employees (some highly paid ones if they'd been there awhile) without going through the hassle of layoffs.

More to the point, they wanted to avoid the hassle of severance checks.

 

[SeXy ReDHeD]

If I remember correctly, I think I heard that Dow is/was planning to lay off a lot of employees--maybe this was a way of getting rid of employees (some highly paid ones if they'd been there awhile) without going through the hassle of layoffs.

More to the point, they wanted to avoid the hassle of severance checks.

Exactly.

 

[Darkstaff]

Well...while I do agree that the actions of Dow were a bit suspect, one cant really hold them at fault for these terminations. This is one of those things where people should just "know better." I mean if they dont explicitly tell them not to fuck on the coffe table in the lunch room does that mean thats carte blance too?

 

[GuyJD]

I DISAGREE WHISPERSECRET

Prior to being hired, most companies and agencies have each new employees sign a document that states that they have received and read the employment policies. That is considered a warning. It is the employee's responsibility to read and uphold that policy. One of the major offenses that can cause anyone to be fired immediately is using company equipment for personal or illegal use. This was a factor that was discussed last week on TechTV when a major U. S. software company had terminated almost 40 employees when it was learned that they were using the Internet while on the company time and using the company computers.

This is fun but I have to get back to work now....LOL.

 

[CRaZy]

I hate to be fascist but....

I think the Dow sackings are suspect also. However, I don't think there are too many employees who would be unaware that using computers other than for company business is not appropriate. It isn't just the pornographic nature of the material that is the problem. Having seen the crippling effect which viruses transferred via email can have on a company and knowing that pornographic pictures/jokes etc. are common ways for virus creating thrill seekers to spread them, I can understand company paranoia.

I saw virtually every computer in every business in a small town, from the banks to the schools, rendered inoperable by a virus in the "Macaroni" (macaroni pasta pieces doing the macarena) screensaver a few years ago because the file had been shared around. It's all fun and games till the company's bloody computer system crashes.

 

[GuyJD]

I think it is a little harsh.. but, as an employer, if you let one thing slip, then you can lose control of your employees...

Listen to me, I am supporting the iron fist... DAMN THE MAN, SAVE THE EMPIRE!

But doesn't that constitute using company equipment for personal use. Not to throw in my police mentality but that smells like theft to me. Not to mention sexual harassment. Yep, termination seems like the right thing to me.

 

[Juspar Emvan]

There is a fairly blury line between explicit material and merely risque stuff. However you can be sure that these lay offs were planned and executed carefully. The lawyers would have been involved from step one.

In all probability there is a two pronged motivation for theses actions at this time. Yes there have been cheap lay offs now. Also a precedent has been set, which if it goes uncontested will open the way for Dow and many other companies to continue the approach.

 

[Madame Pandora]

GuyJD is very right that when you are handed company guidelines, those are considered a warning. Most employees are also told to sign a document acknowledging they have received said rules. Any updates to policy that are distributed are also usually signed for.

For what it's worth, I have found that most times, employees have been given MULTIPLE warnings on these issues, they just haven't been “official” or in writing, so they are ignored.

I know I will sound like the Big Bad Wolf, but having consulted for major corporations, I will tell you that abuse of email and the internet is cited through several studies to be the #1 cause in decreased employee work production (and IT IS a MAJOR problem). I, personally, have seen it take a serious toll on a unit's productivity many times. A personal email is no different from a personal phone call. They are using company resources not allotted to them. They are also usually accepting being paid for time they did not spend working.

When you work for a major corporation, you are putting yourself into the employ of "big brother" and the old excuse of "well, they let us do it before" never counts for anything. Companies update, change, and evolve, and most of the Powers That Be will spend about as much time pondering the concerns of their employees as you or I think about the light bulb in our refrigerator. Unless its not working as it used to, you don't even remember it's there. And, once it gets to the point where you can’t read the catsup bottle anymore, you throw it out and get a new one.

That said, no company would fire a work force unless they were going to cut back anyway. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face. And I doubt severance pay was an issue unless these were union workers or contract workers. The only thing Dow would have to gain would be immunity from being charged back from Unemployment (nothing to scoff at) and bad PR.

I'm sorry to say that had I been consulting for this company, I would have recommended the same action. I would have reasoned that, as long as we were going to have to downsize, let's get rid of the ones breaking rules who are HANDING US their own walking papers and deliver a hell of a message while we do it. Why? Because it's good for not just the individual company, but for industry. You'd better believe there are more than a couple team leaders posting a news article about this on company bulletin boards. (Unofficial "warnings" which will undoubtedly be ignored).

In focusing on sexually explicit e-mails, you get your company good PR for anti-sexual harrassment - driving home a zero tolerance statement to both personal email and inappropriate material for the workplace. It was a bitch of a thing to do, and a damn brillent business decission.

It's cruel and brutal and the way of business. It's also the reason I stopped consulting for "big brother."

My heart goes out to those who lost their jobs, especially because I think our economy is going to be dealing more blows to the work force over the next few years. But, when you sign on to that kind of place and you rub your hands together over benefits and higher pay, you trade humanity for a corporate identity. The alternative is to accept less pay and less benefits and work for a smaller company who might be more lenient.

Is it fair? Probably not. Is it good business? Absolutely.

Just MHO

MP

 

[Softly]

Companies are ruthless!

Whispersecret is right. The whole "Act," has a smell to it.
There are forty families that are in dire financial straights, with few job to be had.

You can be sure that Dow was very selective in who they "Caught." Tell me that every Vice President has not done the same thing?

A few years ago, the Vice President of Claims for the Citizens Insurance Co., of Michigan died. The new Vice President came in from the parent co. Soon after, just before Christmas, the eight Claims Managers in the state all received $50.00 gift certificates from one of the several law firms, that they did business with.

The managers were all highly skilled men, with advanced degrees, and over twenty-five years with the company.
Seven of the men used the certificates to get gifts. These were men that signed claims settlement checks each month in an amount in excess of $500,000.00. They were fired. One manager had three months to go be get full retirement.The eighth man, a good friend of my husband, was demoted to the position of "Field Adjuster," even though he had done nothing.

The new VP, then installed people, from his company, in the
Claims Manager positions.

 

[Jake2001]

I know that employee rights laws vary from state to state. In Texas it is very difficult to fire an employee regardless of the infraction. It usually takes at least three written warnings on file in the employee's record. The charge backs that Madame Pandora referred to are no small matter. We used to send our HR manager to a seminar every year just to keep current on the laws and even hired a consulting firm to advise us on standard practice to help keep our costs to a minimum.

There are ways to fight fire with fire though, and some of them a pretty chicken-shit. But, when the laws are so much in favor of the employees, the employer has to do something to control their business.

 

[GuyJD]

BEEN THERE, DONE THAT

I know that employee rights laws vary from state to state. In Texas it is very difficult to fire an employee regardless of the infraction. It usually takes at least three written warnings on file in the employee's record. The charge backs that Madame Pandora referred to are no small matter. We used to send our HR manager to a seminar every year just to keep current on the laws and even hired a consulting firm to advise us on standard practice to help keep our costs to a minimum.

I left a pretty good, but low paying, civil service job in New Orleans that had a termination difficulty of about 95%. I am presently working a union job in CA that gives 5 reasons for automatic termination and theft is one of them.
But back in the Big Easy, I remember an incident whereas a coworker of mine was caught with the police grill lights from a Police Leiutenant's immobilizeded police unit. He had it stored in the trunk of his car (he had an 84' Chevy Caprice that was similiar to the unmarked police units). As he was going in his trunk for something, a police Sgt. had noticed them and knew that he was not assigned such equipment. His punishment? A 15-day suspension that was received while he was on a 15-day suspension for another offense. The charge? Possession of stolen City property because no one saw him take them. But alot of us were offended since possession of stolen property is still considered a crime. But that's the good thing about a civil service job compared to union, and maybe almost any other job.

[Edited by GuyJD on 01-31-2001 at 11:50 AM]

 

[Siren]

I understand why DOW fired the employees....

 

[Siren]

I was just discussing this on instant message with GuyJD....

 

[Never]

I hope that my company never hires the consultants to Dow; absolutely everyone with a PC would be fired.
I think it was just two weeks ago that I spent about two hours with my supervisor flipping through the online version of Madonna's 'Sex' book. I can even remember during the holidays when he received an e-mail .mov file of Santa Claus stripping down to the skin and sporting a massive erection.

I'd have to guess that of all the people in my office I'd be the only one who wasn't fired. Hey, wait, that would do wonders for my job - talk about your instant promotion. I wonder how I can slip this story to the company President...

 

[GuyJD]

LEAVE THE TOYS OUT OF THE HANDS OF CHILDREN

SORRY WHISPER SECRET, I CAN'T SHARE YOUR SYMPATHY OR PITY FOR THOSE MORONIC IDIOTS...It is reasons like this that companies that incorporate computers in their business only assign the use of those computers to individuals of supervisory or managerial positions.
A similiar incident occurred at my police job when a private citizen and business owner began distributing letters to his customers who had debt with his business and the letters were typed on police stationary. Imagaine receiving a letter from the police department telling you to pay this business what you owe or you will be arrested. Needless to say that the officer who gave him the stationary was given the axe.
To my surprise, only a handful of individuals understand and agree with the termination of these Dow employees who:
1) Stole company time for their own pleasure.
2) Used company equipment, electricity, and internet
for their personal use.
3) Put the company in jeopardy by using their internet
account to e-mail dirty e-mails.
THAT BEING SAID, TO ALL OF WHOM WHO FEELS THAT TERMINATION WAS SO HARSH, PLEASE CONVINCE ME AS TO WHY IT WAS AN UNJUST TERMINATION.

[Edited by GuyJD on 01-31-2001 at 04:18 PM]

 

[Deborah]

Depends on the business, GuyJD. Many types of businesses can not compete unless the Indians also have computers, in addition to the Chiefs, who violate "corporate policy" to a much greater extent anyway.

I worked for the craziest company in the world until I resigned in disgust two years ago. Bet me. No one can match my story.

On topic, violation of "corporate policy" regarding e-mail, unauthorized software on your computer and improper internet use became at this company a weapon to use against those deemed not on the right side of what became a war of opposing factions. It's a takeover thing and still raging. Oh yeah, plenty of SEX involved too. The ex-CEO who got canned for fooling around is trying to get control. LOL! Everybody fooled around, too, he just got caught.