Fightin' Scottish.

Joe Wordsworth

Logician
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
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SCOTTISH troops fixed bayonets and fought hand to hand with a Shi’ite militia in southern Iraq in one of their fiercest clashes since the war was declared more than a year ago, it was reported last night.

Soldiers from the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders mounted what were described as "classic infantry assaults" on firing and mortar positions held by more than 100 fighters loyal to the outlawed cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, according to military sources.

At least 20 men from al-Sadr’s army were believed killed in more than three hours of fighting - the highest toll reported in any single incident involving British forces in the past 12 months.

Nine fighters were captured and three British soldiers injured, none seriously.

"It was very bloody and it was difficult to count all their dead," one source was quoted as saying. "There were bodies floating in the river."

The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders were drawn into the fighting when soldiers in two Land-Rovers were ambushed on Friday afternoon about 15 miles east of the city of Amara. The soldiers escaped, only to be ambushed a second time by a larger group of militia, armed with machine-guns, rocket-propelled grenades and mortars.

Reinforcements were summoned from the Princess of Wales’s Royal Regiment at a base nearby. "There was some pretty fierce hand-to-hand fighting with bayonets fixed," the source added. "There were some classic assaults on mortar positions held by the al-Sadr forces."

Official spokesman Major Ian Clooney confirmed the Mehdi army "took a pretty heavy knocking", but refused to specify tactics. "This was certainly an intense engagement," he added.


Reminds me, oddly, of a friend of mine from Scotland. His name was Jon, he liked to be called Jack. Jack rocked. We were sitting around having lunch and were joined by a group of friends, so we start to just talking and Jack is just eating lunch--most of them didn't know him.

So, this one guy starts talking about "my Scottish heritage" and whatnot. One of those people. It was a conversation about getting into fights and dude says something to the effect of "I'm dangerous in a fight because of my Scottish heritage" or something.

So, Jack... smooth as day... gets up from his side of the table while the guy is talking and comes around the other side and slaps the holy ever lovin' shit out of dude. Like, he didn't punch him, he cup-handed slapped the guy clean out of his chair and onto the floor.

Then he says something like "You're a dumpy American fuck, and you'd best keep that in mind next time you imply we got ANYTHING in common just because your gran spread her legs for someone Scottish."

To this day, I think of that everytime I hear someone talk about "Latin tempers" or "Irish drinkin' tolerances" or "Scottish fighting".
 
Joe, my heritage is scottish, but I am more of the "very slow to anger but then watch out type". I think there is some truth to the idea that genetics can play some part in the "fighting makeup" of an individual, but I also find that the expectations that go along with these generally held views ( I don't know that they are so ingrained as to deserve the word "sterotypes") can be as much a negative as a positive.

The idea of peoples of celtic heritage being quick to settle things physically has led to trouble for me in the past.

I must wonder about the incident you described. Were there other things said that brought Jack's contempt to the surface and that was a "final straw"? It almost sounds as though you felt the literal slapdown was well deserved. Just wonderin'.
 
[VOICE=williamwallace]

'In the year of our lord thirteen fourteen, patriots of Scotland, starving and outnumbered, charged the fields of Bannockburn. They fought like warrior poets. They fought like Scotsmen. And won their freedom. '

[/VOICE]


Snoopy
 
I'm part Scottish too... I take too much after my Scottish grandfather - slow but surely to get things done.
 
So your friend sucker-punched this guy for no reason?

What an unpleasant little story.

---dr.M.
 
Bel, yeah... I think the guy deserved it. But, that's just me.


Originally posted by dr_mabeuse
So your friend sucker-punched this guy for no reason?

What an unpleasant little story.

---dr.M.

I wouldn't say no reason. I mean, at the worst and the least it could be a poor reason, but to say no reason at all?

Well, maybe it needs clarification... he punked down chico because chico felt that simply having ancestry made chico a fightin' machine or something, and he felt that it was perhaps an insult to his being that nationality to assume as much.

Personally, I think its a decent reason to punk down a chico.
 
I think Joe has a point. I used to fight constantly and drink every day. It was nothing to beat the hell out of someone for no real reason. I used to fight for a living in illegal back alley fights. I didn't even know about my Scottish heritage until a couple years ago, several years after my asshole-ish fighting days.

What threw me off, I think, is that I'm a very good tipper.:)
 
Joe Wordsworth said:
Bel, yeah... I think the guy deserved it. But, that's just me.




I wouldn't say no reason. I mean, at the worst and the least it could be a poor reason, but to say no reason at all?

Well, maybe it needs clarification... he punked down chico because chico felt that simply having ancestry made chico a fightin' machine or something, and he felt that it was perhaps an insult to his being that nationality to assume as much.

Personally, I think its a decent reason to punk down a chico.

My hope would be that Jack has learned to "temper" his outbursts as he has gotten older. I'll accept your assertion that dude probably deserved it since you were there. I can also empathize with Jack's being annoyed at a person for essentially glorifying a steroeotype and enjoying turning the stereotype against him. I probably would have felt he deserved it too. (and I would have probably laughed...)

However to strike without allowing him an opportunity to defend himself is dishonorable at best. Especially since, given your description of Jack, a good scowl and the aforementioned comment slightly modified might have made "chico" go home for a change of undergarments...
 
Yay for stereotypes. :rolleyes:

Simply amazing that people who seem to be otherwise rational still hold on to those so dearly.

I guess I need to start wearing feathers in my hair, and speaking broken english....
 
cloudy said:
Yay for stereotypes. :rolleyes:

Simply amazing that people who seem to be otherwise rational still hold on to those so dearly.

I guess I need to start wearing feathers in my hair, and speaking broken english....

Never fails to surprise me either...

sweetie, you put those on and I'll put on my kilt, boots and gambeson and meet you of a foggy hilltop for some "piping" of an even more traditional scottish sort. and I promise the reason for your broken english will be the pace of your breathing...
 
Belegon said:
Never fails to surprise me either...

sweetie, you put those on and I'll put on my kilt, boots and gambeson and meet you of a foggy hilltop for some "piping" of an even more traditional scottish sort. and I promise the reason for your broken english will be the pace of your breathing...

Don't forget the firewater, or those beads you promised me...



:D
 
cloudy said:
Don't forget the firewater, or those beads you promised me...



:D

Some things are going to feel fiery before we are finished but I promise it won't have much to do with water (wet yes, water no)...and you do know what I intend to do with those beads don't you?






:devil:
 
The Scots have always been tough. Before the empire began to use colonial troops, the Black Watch and other highland formations were some of the most respected fighting formations the Brits fielded.

I don't think you can claim scotish blood makes you a great fighter, any more than claiming Scandinavian blood makes you a good skier. You learn to be a fighter just as you learn to ski.

What I found interesting was not the ancetdote, but the article. Fixed bayonets is a desperation manuver on today's battlefield. I wonder if they ran out of Ammuntion or if the commander felt they could more easily break the enemy's morale?

-Colly
 
Colleen Thomas said:
What I found interesting was not the ancetdote, but the article. Fixed bayonets is a desperation manuver on today's battlefield. I wonder if they ran out of Ammuntion or if the commander felt they could more easily break the enemy's morale?

-Colly

The British Army practises bayonet fighting as part of its training for street warfare.

The advantage of bayonet fighting is that bystanders don't get killed nor do friendly troops get shot by mistake.

It also scares the shit out of untrained opposition.

Og

PS. The Gurkas use kukris - fighting knives. Very effective tactics for night fighting as they demonstrated in the Falklands War.
 
oggbashan said:
The British Army practises bayonet fighting as part of its training for street warfare.

The advantage of bayonet fighting is that bystanders don't get killed nor do friendly troops get shot by mistake.

It also scares the shit out of untrained opposition.

Og

PS. The Gurkas use kukris - fighting knives. Very effective tactics for night fighting as they demonstrated in the Falklands War.

Thank you Ogs :)

:rose:
 
The Scots may be tough, but they still wear girly skirts.







KIDDING!!!!! I value my head. :p

Lou - bona fide descendant of Robert the Bruce (now there's a badass mofo - well ish)
 
Tatelou said:
The Scots may be tough, but they still wear girly skirts.







KIDDING!!!!! I value my head. :p

Lou - bona fide descendant of Robert the Bruce (now there's a badass mofo - well ish)

You should put that in your sig line. :p
 
oggbashan said:
The British Army practises bayonet fighting as part of its training for street warfare.

The advantage of bayonet fighting is that bystanders don't get killed nor do friendly troops get shot by mistake.

It also scares the shit out of untrained opposition.

Og

PS. The Gurkas use kukris - fighting knives. Very effective tactics for night fighting as they demonstrated in the Falklands War.

I have seen reports of a few major engagements in Iraq that have broken down to close quarter fighting, including knives and fists. The U.S. Marines were in a situation in a cemetery some time ago where the quarters were so close that they were fighting with knives because they couldn't reach their sidearms through the press of bodies.
 
Tatelou said:
Brave I am not. Stupid, yes! Hmmm, maybe I will. :p

I would tell you that if you did I was going to cross tha Atlantic specifically to spank you...



But I think it would only encourage you...:D
 
Well I'm 100% Scottish and I'll take yis all on...oops just stepped into the sterotype there...im a little pussy really!! LOL
 
Nice AV, Goldie.

I have the same pic as my wallpaper on my writing computer.
 
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