Fernando Vargas with Mike Tyson - Ironic?

[Laurel]

So last night I'm watching a replay of the Vargas vs. Thompson fight on HBO... The outcome was no surprise (Vargas clobbered 'em) but it DID surprise me to see Mike Tyson - ear-biter, pro-wrestler, defiler of the sport of Boxing - escorting Fernando into the ring, with his hand on Vargas' shoulder, all chummy..

But after thinking about it, I realized that maybe I shouldn't have been so surprised after all. Tyson, like Vargas, was as a young boxer seen as the Next Big thing. They're both solid men with tremendous speed and agility for their size (though Vargas being the smaller of the two, of course). Both have criminal records. Both have no rein over their own emotions, inside or outside of the ring. Neither has an inkling of what the terms "sportsmanship" or "fair play" mean.

Watching Fernando during the fight made me angry - he deliberately punched the back of Thompson's head several times, eventually losing a point because of it. And even more shocking, as Thompson lay on the canvas after the third knockout, Vargas leaned over and spit in the challenger's face! In that moment, I could picture Vargas taking a chunk out of Ross's HEAD, forget the ear! What is this, I thought to myself, the WWF?

Everyone talks about Vargas as a "natural fighter" who "enjoys boxing". I think he's a "natural hoodlum" who "enjoys violence". His actions only help to marginalize the sport, in the way that fights at hockey games serve to make the public equate hockey with bar fights. Boxing isn't about bar fighting (or, in Vargas' case, street-fighting). It's a sport pitting your force and strategy and reflexes against another.

Already I've read several articles critical of Vargas' actions during the fight, and I'm glad to see that the boxing community has the good sense to denounce such behaviour. If Fernando keeps on this road, he's gonna end up just like his buddy Mike - a big, hulking punchline to a not-so-funny joke.

Anyhow, I'm pretty excited about the possibility of a Vargas/Trinidad matchup. I can't even begin to guess who'll take that one... I'd like to think Tito'll take it - he's a harder puncher, but he's a slower starter. He deserves it more than Vargas, IMHO. Only time will tell - can't wait till December!

 

[Merelan]

I cannot believe I am responding to a boxing thread. Ugghh. Laurel, you are addictive.
But, I have to say that it is boxers like the above mentioned that have turned so many people from the sport. Yes, at one time it was a sport. It is hard to understand how people can enjoy it now.
Before anyone gets upset, I know there are many boxers who follow the rules and do as they should, but unfortunately, by letting Tyson and Vargas continue as they do, they are allowing the corruption of the game continue. To me it is no longer any fun. The comparison to WWF is perfect, for that is where it is headed if they do not get stricter enforcement.

 

[Rand al'Thor]

I don't like those types of boxers, either... I like the guys who get the job done. The only exception to this rule is Prince Nasim. He may be an arrogant show-boater, but he can F***ing BOX!

Trinadad was the guy who robbed De La Hoya of the title, wasn't he? If so, that will be a good fight.

And yes, I do think Oscar was robbed of the title, in his last two defeats, although I forget the other guy's name that he lost to. Please enlighten me if you remember the name.

Rand al'Thor
The Dragon Reborn

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

Boxing stories -

I love boxing - not a big knowledgeable fan or anything but I've consistently found myself "around" it most of my adult life.

Highlights:

Getting nose bleed tickets to a late career Ali vs. Tex Cobb fight. Showing up for the first bout (nobody there) - sneaking into the VIP ringside seats - catching all the preliminaries and waiting to get booted - but while seated there met Howard Cosell, Don King, and this guy sits next to me - Sonny Bono (I got beer for him and he got it for me) - did get booted for the main event though.

Was in Vegas at a convention, at the Hilton - Tyson had just knocked out some poor fool (forget who it was) in-like a minute - the Hilton's got this big jewelry store right off the lobby - it's closed (glass store front doors locked) but Tyson's in there, sitting in a big chair with two babes bringing him huge gold chains and shit - talk about an animal in the zoo - all these people, hundreds of'em watching this thing - this rich thing - buy gold. Man!

My brother in law works for Trump in Atlantic City (poor fellow, but that's another story) at the Taj - good thing is the comps he gets - through him I get to take my oldest son to see Tyson/Hollifield on the big screen - we watch the ear biting incident live, on big screed - fights broke out in the room. What an eye opener for a 14 year old.

Back in Atlantic City - comped into "female" boxing - never had more fun in my life - much, much, much better than male boxers - a lot more heart, a lot more guts, a lot more violence, a lot more pain - saw one girl break the jaw of her opponent.

I agree, boxing ain't pretty, boxing's a bit shady, it sure isn't for everyone - it is barbaric - but I love it.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I prefer, much prefer, watching lightweights and lighter classes boxing to the heavyweights. I just don't really like boxing that much.

I'm a fan fighting, always have been a fan of fighting, but boxing just does not equate to fighting. The point system? Judges? A man most often wins a boxing match by a decision among a small group of ringside officials who've decided which person performed better in the technical aspect.

There is only one point to a fight, and no other, and that is to put the other guy down. On the rare occassion I watch fighting, its the UFC. If I want to watch a demonstration of fighting skills, I watch martial arts competitions. Boxing simply lacks the ooomph for me.

The Don King wannabe in Rocky 5 knew it. His baby could beat Rocky in the ring, but he didn't have a prayer against him as a streetfighter. An eloquent portrayal of my views if ever I've seen one.

But hey, I like the WCW and WWF so what do I know?

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

I agree Dead Biscuit -

Who's that relatively slight - Brazilian(?) guy - whole family invented and practices "that leach-like smothering" technique?

Man I would run from that dude..............

I wonder though how he'd do in a real street fight though. One on one in a cage with nothing else is pretty not like any street fight I've witnessed.

You know? The Sonny Corleone (spelling?) school of kicking ass with a trash can lib goes a long way toward scraping a leach of your back.

 

[Laurel]

KM - that's the opposite of me. Street fighting makes me cringe. I like boxing precisely because there ARE rules - freedom within a form, like any art. It's the only sport I give a rat's hiney about.

There's an old story about Ali as a kid being picked on my a huge neighorhood bully. This big, hulking guy cleaned Ali's clock regularly. Eventually, Ali challenged the bully to a boxing match and whupped his ass - in front of a crowd. After that, the bully left him alone. So boxing isn't street fighting - it takes much more control and agility.

I took Kung Fu (choy li fut) for a few years, and after sparring realized just how difficult and complicated and precise it is. You have to hit your opponent just the right way, in just the right place, to get points (made even weirder by the fact that in martial arts we could use our hands AND our feet.)

On a side note...I've never thought much of women's boxing. Anatomically, women generally just don't have what it takes to make an interesting match. Our center of gravity is in our hips, and our upper body strength isn't proportionally greater than our lower body strength. Plus, the promoters push women's boxing as a freak show by putting powder puffs like Mia St. John on the ticket and scheduling the matches along with Butterbean. However, the best students at my Kung Fu school were women! Martial arts isn't about pure power - it's about flexibility and speed. I saw 5'2" women beat 6'5" ex-football players, because by the time he'd get his big meaty leg up in a kick, she'd have a two-punch two-kick combo in motion and will have already won the point. Sure, he could tear her in two outside of the ring, but he'd have to catch her first.

 

[KillerMuffin]

So very true, Laurel. One of my best friends is married to a petite Japanese Aikido blackbelt with arms that are thicker at the elbows than anyplace else. His favorite photograph of her is of her in her gi standing serenenly with a shy smile on her face and in the foreground two blurs that are a pair of big bruisers she has just tossed. She taught me the art of the japanese pimp slap, effective for controlling husbands everywhere.

I like rules in fights as well, just not that many of them. I watched a Chavez fight, can't remember who it was, about 5 months ago where Chavez won, but he shouldn't have. It was a decision, and it was obvious that the other guy should have won, and would have if the fight continued a few more rounds, or the other guy hadn't been Julio Cesar Chavez. The reasoning was that Chavez "technically" fought better, even though it was obvious to nearly everyone else that the other guy had actually fought much better.

 

[Deborah]

Well, now there are three people on this board who know squat about boxing, Laurel, KillerMuffin and me.

Yeah, Vargas has a few loose screws but I'm not sure he is so loony as Tyson. The other dude gave Vargas some shit before the fight which may or may not have been just a publicity ploy. Didn't seem like it, Vargas seemed totally pissed.

The really weird thing was that Mitch Halpern was supposed to ref the fight but he blew his brains out like several days before. Really weird. The guy was like in his early thirties, working in Vegas in the spotlight, how bad could it be? The dude wasn't bad looking and probably could have his choice of women. I thought maybe there was some really big scandal like fight fixing or something, but I guess it was personal problems, the divorce thing.

 

[RonG]

I saw Tyson here in Indiana. He really didn't look so tough in his orange jumpsuit with a rake in his hands. I think I could kick his ass

Boxing, I love. What they are doing to a really wonderful sport is shameful. I saw Ali fight Wepner in Cleveland as a kid and loved it. Tried amateur boxing in college and found out firsthand how exhausting it is and what a test of willpower it is. Doesn't sound hard - work for three minutes, take a one minute break, work for three minutes, take a one minute break? Well, do it while somebody else is attempting smash your ribs and loosen your teeth and you end up with a great deal of respect for these guys. My great skill as a fighter was being able to protect my ribs by offering my jaw and nose as targets.

I have played just about every sport in the US at one time or another. Boxing is up there with Team Handball and Water Polo for putting your body through hell. And enjoying it!

 

[Laurel]

Debwa! *smooch*

When people commit suicide, it's usually not about how bad their lives are so much about how messed up their minds are. My friend's brother committed suicide, and by all accounts he was a popular, good-looking guy with plenty of money, chicks, and opportunities. It was cool of them to dedicate the fight to Mitch, though. That showed tremendous class on the part of the promoters.

Yeah, I don't think that was a publicity stunt. Vargas was SOOO pissed off. I love how in post-fight interviews he was describing himself as "calm and cool inside the ring". LOL! There was so much anger and heat coming off that guy that it singed my eyebrows through the TV! He's got serious anger issues. To his credit, he IS young. If he ever gets a hold on his emotions, he could be a legend.

I felt bad for Ross Thompson. Didya hear that story about his whole family being boxers and how he's the last one left alive? Geez! That guy had anger issues of his own... He didn't look half bad when he could stay on his feet. I cringed every time he took a swing at Vargas and then went stumbling across the ring - he had awful balance.