I just picked up his first book of poetry. I like a great deal of it. He works the rhyme and meter very well and gives that style a very contemporary feel. I noticed that he uses a great deal of footnotes with his poetry for those that are not as intellectually motivated. I find that to be a good idea as I've used that with a poem of which will be in my company newsletter where I work. I'm sure those that are in Great Britain will know of him already. For those that don't, he is the owner and publisher of Maxim magazine. He's got lots of money. That can work to his advantage as he can sway an audience by providing free wine at his readings. We all know at this point, it is a marketing tactic. Now, I do have some raised eye-brows in that he feels that rhyme and meter is the preferred style for poetry. I'm glad that he is making a splash with it. But, our musicians use rhyme and meter too. In my opinion, poetry isn't about a particular format. What it is though, is how one creates by using that mechanism of style chosen. I don't however side with Felix on that the "beat movement" has hurt poetry. In my opinion it had quite an impact on how poetry is written today. Free verse wasn't brought in by the "beats" as it was Whitman that did. I don't think it is fair to knock a writers choice. I wonder though how this might affect the small press. I'm sure most here would agree that if one is bringing poetry to the masses, it has to be a bit more watered down - or scrutinized. I've seen that he has readings scheduled in various parts of the US and some of the venues have been sold out. But I do feel it is good for poetry in a general sense that it will get attention. He does have a site with poetry up to for those that haven't heard of him. It is his name. com and I thought I'd bring this up to see what others have to say.......don
felix dennis brings poetry to the masses
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flyguy69 said:
Anytime, Fly. It took me a while before I would buy the book. But after plopping down in a couch in Barnes & Noble, I dug in. He has read Nietzsche, and I can see that come out in his work. That sexy bulge in his back pocket does pull them in. He doesn't fit the mold of the struggling poet does he?
darkmaas
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dcpoet44 said:
CODSWOLLOP
"The masses" already have tons of watered down poetry. Check out your nearest card shop. If "the small press" were to attract "the masses" it wouldn't be small press would it?
BTW does one get paid for these kind of posts?
CODSWOLLOP
"The masses" already have tons of watered down poetry. Check out your nearest card shop. If "the small press" were to attract "the masses" it wouldn't be small press would it?
BTW does one get paid for these kind of posts?
darkmaas said:
The card shop I had forgotten all about. Agree with your point on the small press and the masses. Is there an effect on the small press with one being able to use that wallet to attract a huge following? How will the writers of the small press respond? I'm just throwing this out there. It's not to sound pessimistic as it is to see viewpoints of others out here.
darkmaas
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OK, let's talk poetry.
I strongly doubt the the small press market and the market for "watered down poetry" intersect. At the heart of your comments is the notion that if poetry would only make itself more appealing to the common herd then it could lose its status as the poor cousin of "Western" literature. This approach is wrong on so many levels.
Poetry has suffered in the last few decades by ignoring its readers. (Even here, there are poems posted daily that are meaningless to anyone but the author and perhaps a few close friends.) However to propose that a "watering down" is the answer ... my blood boils.
What poetry needs is not well marketed bestsellers but quality poetry - poetry that speaks to intellegent readers. Small presses exist to serve this market. By definition it is not a mass market, never was, and is unlikely ever to be one. This is a good thing.
This is not to say that poetry that has popular appeal, like say the poems of Leonard Cohen, is a bad thing. But you and flyguy both agreed that Felix Dennis' stuff isn't the best poetry. So why tout it? Leave it on the shelf and send the market the message that bad poetry, even by famously endowed publishers, doesn't sell.
I strongly doubt the the small press market and the market for "watered down poetry" intersect. At the heart of your comments is the notion that if poetry would only make itself more appealing to the common herd then it could lose its status as the poor cousin of "Western" literature. This approach is wrong on so many levels.
Poetry has suffered in the last few decades by ignoring its readers. (Even here, there are poems posted daily that are meaningless to anyone but the author and perhaps a few close friends.) However to propose that a "watering down" is the answer ... my blood boils.
What poetry needs is not well marketed bestsellers but quality poetry - poetry that speaks to intellegent readers. Small presses exist to serve this market. By definition it is not a mass market, never was, and is unlikely ever to be one. This is a good thing.
This is not to say that poetry that has popular appeal, like say the poems of Leonard Cohen, is a bad thing. But you and flyguy both agreed that Felix Dennis' stuff isn't the best poetry. So why tout it? Leave it on the shelf and send the market the message that bad poetry, even by famously endowed publishers, doesn't sell.
G
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Shouldn't it all be read - good and mediocre? Hallmark verses leave me cold but they have theit fans. Each to his own.
I think opening school kids' eyes to poetry is most important and doesn't happen enough - if felix wotsisname can do it more power. (I never heard of him)
I think opening school kids' eyes to poetry is most important and doesn't happen enough - if felix wotsisname can do it more power. (I never heard of him)
[QUOTE=darkmaas
Poetry has suffered in the last few decades by ignoring its readers. (Even here, there are poems posted daily that are meaningless to anyone but the author and perhaps a few close friends.) However to propose that a "watering down" is the answer ... my blood boils.
What poetry needs is not well marketed bestsellers but quality poetry - poetry that speaks to intellegent readers. Small presses exist to serve this market. By definition it is not a mass market, never was, and is unlikely ever to be one. This is a good thing.
Certainly, I'm not proposing that watered down poetry is the answer. I'm glad to hear what I am now hearing. I treaded lightly at first as to not insight those that may be fans and such. His writing isn't bad. It is that I can see the edge is not there. I'm glad that I threw this out there. Great input darkmaas
Poetry has suffered in the last few decades by ignoring its readers. (Even here, there are poems posted daily that are meaningless to anyone but the author and perhaps a few close friends.) However to propose that a "watering down" is the answer ... my blood boils.
What poetry needs is not well marketed bestsellers but quality poetry - poetry that speaks to intellegent readers. Small presses exist to serve this market. By definition it is not a mass market, never was, and is unlikely ever to be one. This is a good thing.
Certainly, I'm not proposing that watered down poetry is the answer. I'm glad to hear what I am now hearing. I treaded lightly at first as to not insight those that may be fans and such. His writing isn't bad. It is that I can see the edge is not there. I'm glad that I threw this out there. Great input darkmaas
Popular poetry is not a bad thing as it is a way into the art form. Originally I was introduced to Elliot's Wasteland by a miner I used to work with but I couldn't get an angle on it but I bought a copy and read and read it to no avail. Eventually I got hooked on poetry through the Mersey poets, Roger McGough, Adrian Henri and Brian Pattern. One can argue the merits of either of them but populist they are. Eventually I got tired of them and wanted something more challenging so I sought out other poets and what did I have on my shelf? Elliot's Wasteland so I sat down and read it about ten times and went to the store and bought a primer about it.
Good poetry, bad poetry or indifferent poetry, what does it matter, if people are reading poetry, eventually they will get an understanding of the art and seek out what speaks to them. Some people will always be satisfied with Hallmark and some will never be satisfied and always searching for something new. Some will even rise to the challenge and write and some will feel the need to push the boundaries of the art form.
Writers can bore if they are writing in rhyme and meter as much as they can in free verse. It is up to the writer to draw in their audience and have them engage in their work.
As a fan of the 'beats' they are a pretty eratic bunch and produced a lot of drivel but created some fine stuff too but you can't blame any decline on them, they popularised poetry in the way the Mersey poets did in Britain in the sixties.
I have to confess to owning a copy of the said book. I was intrigued and feeling flush. Most of the poetry is no better than the stuff found on Literotica but then the best stuff I've read on Literotica is better than a lot of poetry I've seen in print. Most of the best writers on Literotica (here is the controversial bit)are guilty of inconsistency but then, they don't have a professional editor giving them advice.
Good poetry, bad poetry or indifferent poetry, what does it matter, if people are reading poetry, eventually they will get an understanding of the art and seek out what speaks to them. Some people will always be satisfied with Hallmark and some will never be satisfied and always searching for something new. Some will even rise to the challenge and write and some will feel the need to push the boundaries of the art form.
Writers can bore if they are writing in rhyme and meter as much as they can in free verse. It is up to the writer to draw in their audience and have them engage in their work.
As a fan of the 'beats' they are a pretty eratic bunch and produced a lot of drivel but created some fine stuff too but you can't blame any decline on them, they popularised poetry in the way the Mersey poets did in Britain in the sixties.
I have to confess to owning a copy of the said book. I was intrigued and feeling flush. Most of the poetry is no better than the stuff found on Literotica but then the best stuff I've read on Literotica is better than a lot of poetry I've seen in print. Most of the best writers on Literotica (here is the controversial bit)are guilty of inconsistency but then, they don't have a professional editor giving them advice.
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bogusbrig said:
I haven't quite figured out how to take out excerpts on quotes on this thing. Nevertheless some fine input here too. In your first paragraph, you mention writers I haven't heard of, except Elliot now that it comes to mind. I strictly started with what had been around for years. Whitman.....Poe.....etc. Then I found some stuff in contempory but only through university presses. But then I was introduced to Bukowski and then the challenge and the interest began to form immeasurably.
I see you took an interest in the aspect of how the writer chooses style. I think one experiments to find what works the best to bring in the reader. But for one to say that free verse hurts poetry as that is the common in the way we speak.
I see that we do agree in that of the beats. I think prior to this batch of writers, that the only one that change writing in a major degree was Whitman. I can only speak on this side of the Atlantic. Nevertheless, all styles are the fore-runners of what becomes the next big trend.
I'd say you have said something worth re-iterating in that their is writing here on lit that is comparable or better. That should tell us that we can compete with those that have a bit more pull in the resource department.
Good to see you jump on this thread.
Angeline
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darkmaas said:
No. One does not.
I disagree about poetry being watered down by the beat movement. To me that's baloney. Ginsberg is derivative of Whitman. Did Whitman water down poetry? Anyway, mediocre poetry is an historic tradition.
This however does not preclude Dennis from being capable of writing good poetry. I'll check him out.
Angeline said:No. One does not.
I disagree about poetry being watered down by the beat movement. To me that's baloney. Ginsberg is derivative of Whitman. Did Whitman water down poetry? Anyway, mediocre poetry is an historic tradition.
This however does not preclude Dennis from being capable of writing good poetry. I'll check him out.
Hi Angeline...
Something may not of been viewed as intended. I'll attempt to clear that up. Darkmaas and I were discussing that the masses usually are content with watered down material...such as the card shops. Poetry that is marketed for the masses, generally doesn't have the edge like the small press does. Thus the distinction between the two. I'm not seeing anything in the thread that actually says that the beat movement is watered down. I could be blind...*LOL*. I'm sure all here agree the beat movement has been instrumental. I will say that Dennis himself says that he thinks the beat movement has stagnated poetry. The beat movement, I think is what started the small press. It seems logical. Anyways, his viewpoint is in a different light. I'll respect that.
His stuff is decent. It does have some wit and humor to it. I can see influences of some of the writers I like. I do feel though, he has leaned toward rhyme and meter for the sake of the masses. Just my opinion.
