Feedback Game and Tutorial On Brushing Your Teeth!

[WickedEve]

I'm still learning how to play the feedback game. It's not always easy to get or give, for some of us. We all have our own way of doing it. I haven't been here long, but I have learned some things and noticed some things.

What really inspired me to start this thread was darkmaiden's comments on a story of mine. I really do appreciate her taking time to even read my story. And I do want feedback. Praise is good! (Please, please, gimme!) But I learn more when someone points out what's working and what's not. I think I learn more hearing what didn't work! But what's the best way to go about telling a writer what sucked?

Take this comment for example: not that you don't write the details. but some of them are as stimulating as a tutorial on brushing your teeth...

Okay, it's funny! It's gets the point across. lol I personally, don't mind that kind of humor in a critique. I try not to say things like that to other writers, though. I want to be encouraging. But I'd like to say things like that! By the way, that was good one, darkmaiden... tee hee

So, do you think it would have been best to have just said that I had some non-stimulating details? Her humor did make the critique more interesting. And we posters do want to be interesting. I know that feeling. But don't we need to be careful not to be witty at the expensive of another person? Some of us enjoy this lively feedback. I do! But it made me think of other writers -- especially the newer ones. At one time, I would have been upset with that comment and discouraged. I've learned to be more careful with what I have to say to other writers. I don't always succeed, but I try.

So, what's the best way to give feedback? We all know that a writer can't grow without some honest feedback. Should we just tell it like it is without the witty comments? Should we find ways to soften our negative feedback? I try to always add some positive feedback with the negative. (Which darkmaiden did with me. Thank you.)

A few days ago I gave some feedback for an awful story. I hated it. I tried to say nice things to encourage the writer. I tried to be gentle with the negative comments. I felt like a wuss. I'm still working on giving negative feedback. I want to do it without being harsh. Though, the more I read the harder that gets.

Once KM made some comments that really bothered me. I thought she was too harsh. But now I understand her. I've read stories where someone is saying "I just sucked your cock and licked your balls." At first, it didn't bother me. But now after so many stories, it irritates me! I no longer have a cock or balls. It makes it hard to be nice with feedback. Same with bad grammar, spelling, punctuation... After a while, you want to slap the offending writers. lol Perhaps, one day, I to will be leaving feedback and telling the writer that his or her story stunk worse than my baby's diaper!

Well, I'm going to keep working on my feedback etiquette. If I offend anyone in the process, let me know. If you offend me, I'll just cry and never write again!

 

[KillerMuffin]

Don't use me as an example! I have NO feedback etiquette nor do I have any tact or patience. That's why I never give feedback unless it's been specifically asked for anymore. No, it never occurred to me that I'm doing it wrong.

I should dredge up the thread that taught me this habit. It's fascinating reading.

It's very hard to give someone feedback that's negative. Particularly when you're on equal footing as we all are here. It's easy for a teacher to tell a student to rewrite it. Here, it's a what the hell does she know? She's a blowhard bitch who thinks she's better than all of us.

How to give it? Sincerely. What was it that you didn't like, why didn't you like it? Is it improvable? When I give a piece of feedback about something that I see wrong with a chunk of writing it's because I honestly think the writer can improve and that I'll be helpful.

I always try to use phrases like "I think" or "It seems to me" because that reinforces that this in my opinion. It also keeps things less offensive. I don't always succeed.

Anyway, the thing about asking for feedback is that people who ask for it don't want what they get. They just think they want it. But they really don't want someone's honest opinion at all because honesty hurts.

Rambling here, off I go. I'm going to find that thread, it's an oldie but a goodie.

 

[WickedEve]

Thanks for responding KM!

I'm just now really starting to give feedback to writers who post and ask for it. I have a lot to learn about giving feedback. But I'm learning some things about my own writing by reading more.
And I am commenting on the new poems. Those poets didn't ask, but I don't think they'll mind. I'm only mentioning poems that I really like. Gosh, it's easier to write about the positive stuff! lol

 

[garyblue]

WE,

DO NOT try to sugarcoat your criticisms. If anything, it makes swallowing even harder. Make any negative statements short and to the point-- and point that point at the writing, not the writer. Whatever you do, divorce the problem from the person.

From what I've seen, this does not help with poets. <grin attribute=Wide> Too many poetical types take their writings all too personal(ly). Structure/style/form? I don't need to learn no structure/style/form. I write from the heart.</grin>

Our top three critics are probably The Killer, UmP, and daughter. Each of them can put the sand in sandpaper. As teachers, they do not grade on the curve. Anything they critique is held to high standards; their own. Any criticism you offer should hold to your own standards. Say what you think in a straight forward manner, without attacking anyone personally. You may piss some off at first. As you establish credibility, you will win over the smart ones.

The victim/honoree (as the man said as he was runout of town on a rail, "If not for the honor, I'd sooner walk.") does not have any obligation to agree with his critic. If he asked for it, he does have the obligation to acknowledge the criticism.

Go for it.

g

 

[Unmasked Poet]

Great question WE,

I know I have a hard time with it myself (lie)

Gary's on target, be honest. Your style is your own. I happen to enjoy Redwave's style a lot. Daughter and Killer are quick cut to the chase I enjoy that. The ride is sharp and fierce and over quickly with limbs and arms everywhere. I take a route often through tongue and cheek land. Just be yourself. I think your doing a great job with the new poems list.

U.P.

 

[daughter]

gary, like your voice

and you have more than established your credibility.

Oh, I was laughing in agreement with your opening observations. I'm with KM, too. Folks ask then become hostile when you don't blow sunshine up their butt. It requires a lot of time and effort to write critiques. I wish we were at least given credit for doing that much. Not like we're paid for this. You'd think some of the victims don't have any manners. I thank a critic regardless of his commentary. I appreciate the time he took.

No where do any of us say nor expect a poet or writer to suck up our drivel as if it is law. We share what we know and have been taught. That's limited. We know it and so should the writer.

Take what you can use and toss the rest. What you do with my critique is none of my business.

Peace,

daughter

p.s. gary you offer astute observations and you always provide food for thought. I'm glad you contribute to our community. Stop lying. I know you're a teacher. I take notes readily.

 

[WickedEve]

Daughter and Killer are quick cut to the chase I enjoy that. The ride is sharp and fierce and over quickly with limbs and arms everywhere.

I've been lucky, so far. You'll probably only find a toe of mine amongst the carnage.

 

[karmadog]

negative is better than none

I had a class a few years ago where the teacher would return my papers with a grades on them, but no other marks. After the second or third time she did that, I argued that since there were obviously no mistakes in grammar or spelling, no flaws in my arguments, and my structure was clearly perfect, I deserved a perfect "100". You'd think that she would start marking the papers, but she didn't. I got a big, bright, shiny, useless "100" on every paper. I'm sure that she didn't read any of the papers. That class was a waste of my time and money. So I have know problem with negative feedback. And hear it's even free!

 

[Cyberguy]

I am also just beginning to participate in giving and getting feedback. I don't think there are rights or wrongs, just follow your personality.

As I writer, I view the audience here as being like that of the movie industry. There is a general populace and there are critics that understand the art. I think anyone who pays attention here will know that UP, KM, and daughter fall into the latter category and understand the measure being applied to their work when they critique it.

Since I am not in the latter category, I try to convey that in any comments I give. I try to remain objective and avoid getting personal. If I have a criticism, I try to explain what I think is wrong and why. I find I don't comment on works that don't speak to me in some way, so I generally have something good to say about it to go along with any critical comments.

 

[garyblue]

Re: gary, like your voice

and you have more than established your credibility.

...Folks ask then become hostile when you don't blow sunshine up their butt....

Uhh,daughter, you have a serious usage faux pas here. Please note that one pumps sunshine, and one blows smoke up the aforesaid orifice. You have made this error before; do not repeat.

p.s. gary you offer astute observations and you always provide food for thought. I'm glad you contribute to our community. Stop lying. I know you're a teacher. I take notes readily.

Thank you for the compliment. Actually I'm not (though I think I would be good at it). My sister, the actual teacher, degreed type from Enormous State University, says no way. Since the true measure of a person's intelligence is the degree they agree with you, you are obviously smarter and thus more correct than she.

g

 

[perks]

I've seriously critiqued only one person's poetry here. I'm quite harsh, therefor I try to hold back...I find it difficult to tell people how I feel about their art although I'm full with my own opinions. I find the task great, and often overwhelming. I'm working on it.

I'm not sure if I'm just spouting or warning people,
we'll see what the future holds,
perky

 

[daughter]

((d licking wounds))

Friend, you might be harsh, but I value your honesty. Afterall, you're complaining about the words not me the person.

gary, shows you how clever I am. LOL I'll remember it's pumping. Your sister's got me beat, too. No degree, though I am a career student.

Only bonafide teacher I know here is the Dr4ke. Hope he doesn't shoot me for spilling the goods. We had a few others, but apparently life beyond the screen is keeping them busy.

I value the interaction here because you all make up the classroom, and I like attending class. Thanks for the education.

Peace,

daughter