Feedback for feedback

[Star of Penumbra]

Iv'e submitted another story here, and I'd like to know what you think of it. So here's a link.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=53953

If you want feedback on a story of yours in return, post a link, and I'll get to it a soon as I can.

 

[the_bragis]

Feedback

Hi Star of Penubra,

The basic story line was kind of interesting and intriguing, and certainly the opening lines were good. Isn't that what we are told, the opening paragraph is the most important? I know for me it is.

Now the actual story, well I had a few small problems with.

The number one was, where was the sex? Was I expecting too much? I mean I read to the shower scene and thought things were going to get hot, but they did not. They got naked. Nothing. She masterbated. So? He got horny. Hey, still nothing. I'm not sure, perhaps this was part of the tease of the story? It sure teased me! I understand it's not necessary for every single erotic story to have paragraph after paragraph and rampant sex, but I really felt this story needed more desciption of what was going on sexually . How did her tits look all soaped up anyway? How hard and hot did his cock get in that shower? What was he thinking when she was laying next to him in bed naked? Damn it, you have me thinking ..... Now I really need to know!

Gramma, well I'm a long stretch from being an expert, but this didn't look right to me:

"I haven't seen you around here before." She said.

I think there should be a comma after before and 'she' not 'She' , much of your dialog is like that so you may want to check it.

~ She was quite tall for a woman, about six feet, meaning she was only slightly smaller than myself. ~

"meaning she was" seemed superfluous to me. I saw a few sentences like that.

I noticed countless times you began sentences either She or I, you probably didn't notice it when you wrote this story, but as a reader I did. Again it might be just me, but I found it a bit distracting.

~ She put her elbows on the table and laced her fingers together, then rested her chin on the backs of her hands. "You're kinda cute." She said, still smiling. ~

This is a really nice description, but sadly it was one of a very few.

A couple of things didn't quiet jell for me either, I mean like:

~ I immediately closed my eyes. I respected her too much to watch. Not that I didn't want to. ~

Oh please, he just picked her up in a bar for goodness sakes, and they were naked in bed only a few minutes earlier.

~ "Well, I looked at first to see if you were okay, but when I saw what you were doing, I closed my eyes." ~

Now really how realistic is this? I mean he's a red blooded, hetro male in his earlier twenties, right?

Like I said , this is a good and interesting story. You have a good imagination, and it's really nice to read something a little 'different' in here. I think it, like you as a writer, has good potential. You just need to smooth out a few of those little bumpy bits.

Feedback on one of my stories? Oh no! I'm not as game as you, but if you happen to come across one of mine, please do drop me an email won't you?

Have a great day, and happy writing in the future,

Alex (fem)

 

[margo_x_x]

I'm starting this review before I finished reading the story. The story of mine I want you to review has a similar slow pace and starts with cuddling. I had to jot this down because I was so tickled with the loving way you describe the simple joy of cuddling-up to someone. I dashed over to you bio to double-check that you were a man, and was doubly pleased. Spooning, as I call it, is right up there with foreplay. It the rest of the story crashes and burns, I'll still have warm feelings about it just because of the cuddling part.

All done.

A platonic relationship at Literotica? I can hear teeth gnashing from Australia to the U.K.

Your final line:
“As we walked down the stairs together, I had a feeling that I would always remember the time I would be spending with Mary.”
That ending didn't work for me at all.

We have two kids now, and the neighbors wonder why we cherish that old motorcycle so much. The sex has been incredible, but the bedrock our love was built on was the nights we simply held each other.

You could go for the two ships passing in the night approach:

“I don't know if she ever went back to Colorado; we drifted apart in the bustle of L.A. I still have the wanderlust, and wonder if she does too.”

Or even:

The biker that followed me off the interstate waited in the restaurant parking lot until I took my helmet off.

“I thought that was you,” she said.

“Mary?”

“You're looking good, Trent,” she said.

I also found there was too much rationalization going on. It made some of the dialogue sound clunky. You might want to tighten up the “this is why I'm doing this” parts of the conversation and let Mary come to the right conclusion in her response. You get the point across, and it makes Mary seem more intelligent.

You'll probably get killed in the ratings because of the lack of detailed sex, but a huge chunk of people will absolutely love the story. I did.

 

[margo_x_x]

Oops! Forgot to give the link for the story you're supposed to trash.


http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94976

 

[Ray Dario]

Okay Star you asked for it.

Actually this was a pretty good story. It was certainly in the right category and I agree with Bragis, I was chomping at the bit for them to bump uglyies all the way through the story.

One question up front. What in the hell did you do with Utah and Arizona? There ain't no way that you can get from Colorado to Nevada on a motorcycle in three hours. You could go north up through Montana and Idaho to avoid going through Utah or Arizon to get to Nevada but it would take a lot longer than three hours. Maybe you should recheck ya'lls map.

Okay enough on that.

This story read a little to much "he said / she said" for me. This was caused by too many sentences starting with the subject first.

He did this. She did that. He did that. She did this.

Sentences, like pasta, need to be spiced up. To do this you vary the sentence structure, length, and form. Put in a short sentence and then a longer complex sentence. Vary the structure. Make sure they don't all start with the same word.

Too much information: Time and again you gave the reader more than they needed.

I started the engine and pulled out of the parking lot, back onto the highway. I had been heading west when I got here, so I turned right and continued going west.

We already knew he'd been going west when he got there and we don't care that he turned right. We also knew that he would be going west again, at least eventually since he wanted to get from Colorado to California.

Watch out for this. Too much information bogs down a story and can slip the reader right out of the fantasy.

Show don't tell: Too many times in the story you were telling me how the characters felt. Show me how the characters felt. This is actually a classic short coming of the first person POV. It can be overcome by a good writer but first person tends to lead the writer into telling not showing.

Overall you have a fairly good plot. Since the speaker didn't develop at all, he was the same person at the end of the story as he was at the start, I would have liked to have see Mary developed more. She changed, a little, but it was hard to see it.

Okay I know you may be feeling a little slammed right now. Remember that in a critique such as this the good things you did rarely get mentioned but the bad things get pounded on again and again.

Really you did a good job. You are a good writer so keep writing!

I hope this helps you out some.

Now about the reciprocation. No one has really pounded my dumb ass on "Visitation" so if you don't mind I'd love to hear your thoughts. Don't be gentle, but do please be honest.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=48763

Thanks
Ray

 

[Ask For More]

I agree with Ray....although the story is well paced and quite smooth, there are too much of he/she. Just to elaborate a little:

She had shoulder-length dark brown hair and a ruddy complexion. She wasn't exactly pretty, but she was handsome for a woman. She was wearing a red button-down shirt and black jeans, and had a handkerchief holding her hair back, tied into a bow. She had a narrow, almost sharp nose, and wide eyes. Her lips weren't thin, but they weren't full, falling somewhere in the middle. She was drinking some brightly colored beverage with an umbrella. She noticed me looking at her and smiled. She had beautiful dark brown eyes.

When describing someone/thing it's important to vary the structure to make it more interesting.I think this paragraph is definitely a bit too elaborate. While it's important to paint a picture, it's also important to leave something to the imagination. For example, you mention her hair twice, wne it would be possible to do it once. So if I were to suggest something else, it would run more along the lines of:

(I'm trying to stick to your orginal structure, but just fiddling the wording, and adding a couple of my own suggestions)

She had shoulder-length dark brown hair and a ruddy complexion. Not extremely pretty, but definitely a handsome specimen of a woman. She was wearing a red button-down shirt and black jeans; while a handkerchief held back her hair, tied into a bow. Her lips were full, without being an overly dominant feature of her face. In her hand was some brightly colored drink; an umbrella sticking out of it to add to the effect. After a while, she noticed me looking at her, and gave me captivating look in return.

See what I'm mean? It does take a lot more thought sometimes to be able to construct a sentence, but the end results can be much more effective.

 

[Guru]

 

[Star of Penumbra]

margo_x_x

Good points:
-No long run-on sentences or horrible grammer and spelling that make it difficult to read.

-Well written. Detailed enough to give an accurate picture, but not so much as to stifle any imagination on the part of the reader.

-It's believable. The characters seemed human instead of flat and one-dimensional.

Bad points:
-The original transition from the courtroom could be more clearly labelled, and is rather sudden.

-There are an awful lot of "Pat said." and "Julie said." tags. When there are just the two characters, you don't have to put tags after every line of spoken line. Throw one in once in a while so it's not too difficult to follow who's saying what.

-Quote:
They had both been naked when they went to sleep last night, so it shouldn't have been a surprised that Julie was still naked under the covers. What was surprising was her reaction to her friend's nakedness.
End quote.

You used the word 'naked' three times in that paragraph, and repetitive words quickly becoe boring and annoying. I would have written:

"They had both been naked when they went to sleep last night, so Pat shouldn't have been surprised that Julie still wasn't wearing anything. What did suprise her was her reaction to her friend's nudity."

See how that flows better?

-Quote:
“Blind. You're all blind. The truth shall set you free,” he kept raving as they dragged him away.
End quote.

It doen't carry quite the impact I believe you were going for. I would suggest:
"Blind! You're all blind! The truth shall set you free!" He raved as he was dragged out the door.

Misc. notes:
There are a few other points, like typos (their insted of thier, and friends when it should be friend's) that should be corrected. Overall, it's quite good, well written, and a lot better than I could have done with the same scenario. Keep up the good work.

Ray Dario

Good Points:
-No glaring spelling errors or horrible grammar (ALWAYS a good thing, regardless of the writer).
-Quite interesting, well written, and enjoyable.

Bad Points:
-There were a few instances where you left out a comma where there should be one.
Quote:
His training finally rescued him, and he managed to repeat the Lord's Prayer silently several times, restoring his composure.
End Quote (the parts in bold are mine).

The feel is quite dark, which you were obviously going for. It's an excellent piece of work. Keep writing.

Thanks for the feedback everybody. I'll get to work rewriting my story soon.

 

[margo_x_x]

Now THAT'S what I call feedback!

EXACTLY what I needed.

I feel like I paid for a Yugo, and got a Ferrari.

If ever you want me to look at a story of yours again, feel free to e-mail it directly. I can't help you with your English, (some of those “typos” were actually the way I spell things) but I'll pour my soul into telling what works and doesn't work for me in your tale.

Good luck, and thank you for your help.

 

[Ray Dario]

Star,

Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate your comments. Comma usage is still my greatest challenge. I've read the books, studied the rules and still it eludes me at times.

Yes the dark feel was intentional. I was feeling very dark myself when I wrote it. The original version ended with the Father being devoured by the succubus but it got a little gory so I toned it down. Actually I liked the ending of the second version better anyway. But what little feedback I've received on it indicates that the average reader disliked the ending. Some have even said it left a bad taste in their mouth.

Anyway, Thanks for the comments.

Ray

 

[Guest]

Two cents' worth

Okay, I'm gonna throw in my two lousy pennies of thought. (Believe me, today you'd be lucky to get that for them.)

The first thing that struck me was the choppy rhythm of your sentences. I look at it like this: if you can take each sentence, or most of it, and make it into a list as opposed to a paragraph, it isn't varied enough in terms of sentence structure. For example:

"She had shoulder-length dark brown hair and a ruddy complexion. She wasn't exactly pretty, but she was handsome for a woman. She was wearing a red button-down shirt and black jeans, and had a handkerchief holding her hair back, tied into a bow. She had a narrow, almost sharp nose, and wide eyes. Her lips weren't thin, but they weren't full, falling somewhere in the middle. She was drinking some brightly colored beverage with an umbrella. She noticed me looking at her and smiled. She had beautiful dark brown eyes."

You can very easily turn this into "MARY'S LIST". ie:

1. She had shoulder length brown hair and a ruddy complexion.
2. She wasn't pretty, but she was handsome for a woman. (Want to explain that one again?)
3. She was wearing a shirt, jeans and a handkerchief in her hair.
4. She had a narrow nose and wide eyes.
5. Her lips were normal (ie not thin or full)
6. She was drinking a girlie drink with an umbrella.
7. She saw me looking and smiled.
8. She had beautiful eyes.

Does that make sense? I don't mind descriptive paragraphs but this is almost an obligatory "okay-now-I-gotta-tell-them-what-she-looks-like" paragraph. Weave the details into the story. For example: (using the paragraph and the one before it)

The tallest girl in the group wasn't pretty in a cosmetic sense, he supposed, but she stood out. If there had been some lounge lizard playing in this half-tank little bar he wouldn't have noticed it nearly as quickly as he did her. Twisting the cap
from his beer, he took a long swallow, grinning to himself at the fact that she was drinking some flamingo pink girlie drink even though she was dressed in a red button down shirt and jeans and looked every inch the suburban cowgirl. Hell, the thing even had a cheap paper umbrella.
She was full of contrasts and he found himself wondering if that was what made her so interesting. A narrow, almost sharp nose didn't look quite so stark with those wide-set chocolate brown eyes. And while she was clearly a woman her kerchief-tied ponytail made him wonder if she got carded in places like this. Hell, he'd card her, cause right about then he was more than a little interested in getting her name, even if he had to cheat for it."

Okay, I'm getting wordy. sorry.

Their opening lines of dialogue made me wince. "May I?" and "Be my guest"...."I haven't seen you around here before" and "That's because I've never been here". Umm...maybe could have used a bit more imagination here.
Then we go on to "you're kinda cute" and progress into the playing games with the "guess my name" thing. Honestly, I know I've been married for a while, but this is pretty sweet. Do people honestly talk like Ken and Barbie nowadays?


The line about keeping the bugs off..now THERE's some dialogue.


She's a small town girl, with dreams of going anywhere. She's an orphan for goodness sake. And he rides in on a motorcycle and sweeps her away? hmmm.


She refuses to accept his offer immediately because she doesn't know him. Horray for her!! Then a few lines later she invites him to stay with her after telling him, 'hey, I have no family...no one will miss me'. How the heck does she know he isn't Ted Bundy??


"Oh. So what are you going to do when you run out of money?'
I shrugged. "I suppose I'll get a job and an apartment in whatever city I happen to be near.
"So you don't want to start a family?"

Maybe it's just me, but she's asking him why he doesn't want to start a family after he runs out of money (?). Sounds like the perfect time to me.


Does she have a job? She seems rather inconsiderate to just jump on a bike and abandon her apartment (room?) and job. Or maybe she doesn't have a job. If so, how did she pay the radiator guy so much for the repair?


Okay, I'm not done with the story but I'm finished reading....she just cooked him a nice homecooked meal, told him he needed to take a shower, and invites him into her bed. Gee, sounds like a perfectly rational female to me.


Perhaps I sound harsh and I'm sorry; honestly that is not my intention. I don't have so many problems with your sentence variation, as that gets better as the story progresses, but the believeability was not there. Starry-eyed, naive orphan girl, lone stranger motorcyclist. Big dreams with no common sense whatsoever. That's not to say that this could not have wowed me, even with its cliches, but there wasn't enough power in it to get past those hinderances. It's a very, very, very, very sweet story, so much that it made my teeth ache. And while people, I'm sure, behave that blindly in reality, that doesn't mean it's sexy or sensual. To me, it just seemed stupid for her to make the choices she did.

So, not my cup of tea, but thanks for the chance to discuss.

 

[ladyphoenix]

Will someone PLEASE explain to me why, when I am typing a reply, the Bulletin Board kicks me out? I WAS REGISTERED.

In case you haven't figured it out yet, that 2 cents' worth was mine.

 

[margo_x_x]

It's an auto-protect program in case you want to remain anonymous after you've read what you've written. It kicks in when it detects that more than ninety percent of the feedback is negative, and the other ten percent is insulting.

I've activated this program several times, and coward that I am, was glad that it kicked in.

I can't refute your critique, though I cringe at how brutally you slice and dice.

With that rapier, I'm surprised I didn't see your name in the “Beat me, hurt me, make me write bad checks” request for feedback. (I tried to change the subject to: Feed(back) me Seymore, but it won't let me)

 

[the_bragis]

Critiquing the critique.

Quote~ I can't refute your critique, though I cringe at how brutally you slice and dice.

To margo_x_x,

I couldn't have said this better myself. That posting had me running for cover, and it wasn't even addressed to me!


To ladyphoenix,

I have read a couple of your stories, and I enjoyed them very much, as you know . Your grammar and spelling are perfection. Your work is well done, and exciting to read, however I would like to see you extend your talents to include a little diplomacy . As a writer, and an obviously skilled one, you must be aware there are many different ways of saying the same thing.

I know you are most likely thinking right now, you were just being honest, (which is commendable) and having your 'two pennies worth' (which is fair). Well, so am I.


To Star of Penumbra,

Practice will make your stories perfect I am sure.

I just read your mouseman story, Lyda, you have an incredible imagination, and that's something that just can't be learnt.


To all.

Have a great day, and don't forget to check out the bragis' stories some time. ('sorry, but I just had to give us a little plug here.)

Alex (fem)

 

[Star of Penumbra]

ladyphoenix: No offence taken. After all, if I din't know what people disliked about my writing, then it owuld be a lot harder to improve. ALL feedback is good, even the negative kind.

Thanks for taking the time to read it and reply.

 

[margo_x_x]

A last word on the Ladyphoenix review.

Although I now understand where all those ashes came from that the phoenix is supposed to have risen out of, I secretly wish she'd turn her flamethrower on my stories.

Some of the most useful things I've learned about myself in real life, have come from someone who's mad and yelling at me. “Polite, diplomatic, and useful critiques” may be an oxymoron.