Feedback and talking writing

[XQSmith]

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[CWatson]

Sounds fun. Let's start a discussion. =)

How I get ideas: mostly by asking questions. What would it be like to do [this]? What would it be like to be [that]? What does it feel like to be in [suchandsuch] an emotional state? Could somebody write a story about [this other topic]? I just keep my eyes open and let my curiosity take me where it will.


How I develop them: mostly by, again, asking questions. Once I've got an idea I want to write, the next important question is, Why do I want to write it? What about the situation is interesting to me? What is--to my mind at least--the heart of the story?

I also spend some time asking how the story normally goes. This is a step that's personal; I'm deeply embedded in a realistic viewpoint. I think it's fun to write stories about what could happen, but I'd rather write about what would happen. And so I look at versions of this story which have already been written, and what paths they took, and whether I agree with them. "Yeah, that's doable." "No, that's not how real people would act."

Finally, another personal step: I've found that I always need more than one angle on a story. If the story doesn't appeal to me in more than one way, I get bored and can't write it. This means I have to find several things that interest me... but it also makes the story better, because those things begin to interact.

Anyway, that's all I got. (This took a lot longer to write than I expected; when I started, there were no replies.) Hope it's not boring!

 

[polynices]

This is a huge, though interesting, topic. I'm just going to list a few points, as they occur to me.

1. I tend to start with a voice - either the narrator's voice, if I'm writing in first person, or the voice of the style I adopt if I'm telling a third person story.

2. I'm a fantasizer rather than a planner. That is, I daydream my stories, often in considerable detail, and then, if I think I have enough to get started, I start writing. And however little I originally thought was there in the fantasy, the story always expands on the page. A five minute fantasy can often provide a multi-page story.

3. Walking is good for fantasizing - for me, that is. If I lie down to fantasize I fall asleep.

4. I watched a long interview with John le Carré a couple of days ago. He said he doesn't plan complete plots either. He just puts people 'in a mess', and then tries to work out how they get out of it.

5. Writing is about rhythm for me - rhythm within sentences, between sentences, across paragraphs. As a result, things often happen in my stories as a result of the requirements of rhythm. That is, plot points sometimes just 'pop up' because the rhythm took me there. I'm not at all sure that's really a good thing - it can certainly lead to frustration at times - but it's the way I work.

6. I'm editing all the time - I re-read and tinker every few paragraphs - but I hate re-writing. (That's almost certainly another failing.)

7. Reading what I've written aloud (quietly, though, in case anyone thinks I've finally gone mad) is, for me, the best way to review what I've written. If the voice and the rhythm work, I'm usually happy.

8. Despite the fact that I hate re-writing, re-reading after a day or two almost always throws up faults and problems to correct. With erotic stories, it's always tempting to submit to Literotica as soon as I've finished - but there are always good reasons for delay.

I'm sure there's a lot more to say, but I think that's more than enough from me for now. And I know writing is a very idiosyncratic activity. I'm sure a lot of other people will have totally different ways of going about it.

- polynices

 

[XQSmith]

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[favoritesgoddess]

4. I watched a long interview with John le Carré a couple of days ago. He said he doesn't plan complete plots either. He just puts people 'in a mess', and then tries to work out how they get out of it.

- polynices

This is how I start too. Usually it's a situation or a conflict that sparks the story and once a situation is in my brain, I find myself wondering who would be in that situation. The characters are born from the situation or conflict, but they might change a couple of times at first as I play with the ideas of how a man and a woman would fare in a particular situation. What if they switched roles? What if it was two women, or two men?

At some point I hit on a combination that intrigues me and the characters take over. They start to take shape in my brain and they develop personalities, and when I start exploring their personalities, I find out about their sexual identities, proclivities, fetishes, experiences, and attitudes, and I bring that aspect out in the story.

I don't know exactly how the story develops. Usually I find myself just accidentally thinking about it. I don't sit down and say "Okay, I'm going to figure this out." It just happens. Someone will talk to me and I'll realize I've been crafting the story in my head. So before I put fingers to keyboard, I've already been rolling the plot around in my head for awhile. Sometimes I make notes, sometimes not at all.

As for why I write for Literotica...I don't. I write for me. Writing is one of the ways I take all the creativity that builds up in my brain and lets it out, like a valve on a pressure cooker. If I don't let it out I find that I get very out-of-sorts and muddled. So writing exercises my brain and it gets out the pent-up creativity so I can feel more sorted out. I post to Literotica because I like to share.

I found the benefit to writing erotica as opposed to mysteries or spy novels or whatever is that it boost my libido as well. Writing about sex makes me want to have sex, and I'm at a time in my life where I could use the boost. Writing erotica is my Viagra.

I did have a friend ask me once why I didn't write mainstream fiction, and I really couldn't answer that. The best I could come up with is wondering myself why Agatha Christie didn't write children's books, or why Danielle Steele doesn't write fantasy novels. I think you have a genre that speaks to you.

I think that each person's sexual self is a big part of their personality and how they relate to the world. I find that fascinating, and since erotica explores that, it seems to be a good fit for me.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

My stories start in a variety of ways. My swinger stories are slightly fictionalized versions of real events. Those were the easiest to write.

Other stories start with a situation. I work backward to create the basis for the situation, then work forward to resolve it.

One of my favorite stories, The Cunt of Monte Cristo, started with the title. I was looking at a book display at B & N, when I noticed that the omission of one letter from a title creates something entirely different. I then went to work creating a story that fit the title. I am currently working on another story that started the same way.

Other stories begin with a character. I create a person, put that person in a situation, and take the story to its conclusion.

 

[XQSmith]

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[evanescence]

I also spend some time asking how the story normally goes. This is a step that's personal; I'm deeply embedded in a realistic viewpoint. I think it's fun to write stories about what could happen, but I'd rather write about what would happen. And so I look at versions of this story which have already been written, and what paths they took, and whether I agree with them. "Yeah, that's doable." "No, that's not how real people would act."


I am finding this to be an intensely interesting topic (as a writer myself).

Like CWatson, I try to let a story unfold as it naturally 'should'. I try to maintain a position as the discoverer of how a story MUST unfold, rather than as its progenitor.

And like Favoritesgoddess, I have intellectual energy that must find a productive outlet; which writing provides.

As a structural process, when writing non-erotic fiction, I usually start with a philosophical or sociological resolution that I have figured out in response to some personal or societal problem that bothers me. Then I push that energy through that theme and let it flow out to the other architectural elements.

 

[favoritesgoddess]

Does anyone else insert themselves into the story? Writing erotic things, I always have to have a character who is at least a little bit like me. It makes it more fun to write -- and the fantasy more fun. That's part of the reason why I go so long between stories. I have to find something that's arousing for me. I also think that ensures that, whatever that is, will be arousing for someone else. For me, there's no better feeling than knowing someone got off to my story -- and hopefully liked the writing.

Most of my characters are in some part me. Sometimes a lot, sometimes a little. Some of my favorite stories involve two characters who are each representative of a particular aspect of my personality. And what they do sexually is stuff that I've done, want to do, or wish I could do.

 

[CWatson]

Does anyone else insert themselves into the story? Writing erotic things, I always have to have a character who is at least a little bit like me. It makes it more fun to write -- and the fantasy more fun. That's part of the reason why I go so long between stories. I have to find something that's arousing for me. I also think that ensures that, whatever that is, will be arousing for someone else. For me, there's no better feeling than knowing someone got off to my story -- and hopefully liked the writing.

Well, all characters reflect the author at least a little. In order to write a character you need to get inside their skin, and you do that by finding common ground with them. I've never been pregnant, and I never will be (something about having testicles), but I can well imagine the anxiety one might face at the prospect of bringing new life into the world, because I feel it even though I'm a childless bachelor. That's my "in"--that's how I connect to my pregnant protagonist and share her experiences. And once I have an in, I can branch out from there to her other feelings and concerns. Write what you know, because what-you-know is a seed; the character is what grows out of it.

But yes, I usually do have a character who is more prominently "me" than anybody else. Sometimes it's interesting to compare them.

As to structure, I find that I'm the opposite of everybody else on the thread: I have to outline. I need to know where each character is going, so that I know what beats to hit and what themes to highlight. I've often equated my outlines to being a first draft, because it creates a lot of the structure and direction; once it's done, all that's left is actually putting words on the page. Having said that, each chapter's description is only a few lines, so that I have a lot of freedom in the creating: the outline decides where the character is going, but the draft is where we figure out how he or she is going there. The outline is a map; the draft is a journey. I have to write like this because rewriting is a skill I have not yet mastered; if the story doesn't come out close-to-right on the first try, I'm frakked.

 

[_Lynn_]

I am interested in feedback and talking writing: how you get ideas, how you develop them, why write for Lit, etc.

As my story page shows, I use lyrics for inspiration. Over three years ago I joined the Jake Rivers Invitational using El Paso. Since then we've used assorted artists including Ray Price, Merle Haggard, Johnny Cash, and Willie Nelson.

The last piece I submitted, Eileen, came from the Blues singer Keb' Mo'. I enjoy taking songs and twisting them into my own tale, like I did with Maggie May. Hearing the lyrics, people imagine a younger man and older woman, especially since Rod Stewart is singing. But not in my story.

Other times I have an image in my head of a scene. That's how Maggie's Gift began, with the story just . . . happening. Each sentence brought the next one to me as I imagined it all taking place.

And a few of my stories have come through challenges from and conversations with another author.

I don't do well with outlines, even for NaNo. I jot down hair color, ages, names of cities, etc. to be sure I'm consistent, but that's usually scribbled on a paper in pencil so I can change anything later.

Nothing earth-shattering or fancy, I'm afraid.

 

[gjif98afjl]

Click here to see my stories!

As my story page shows, I use lyrics for inspiration. Over three years ago I joined the Jake Rivers Invitational using El Paso. Since then we've used assorted artists including Ray Price, Merle Haggard, Johnny Cash, and Willie Nelson.

The last piece I submitted, Eileen, came from the Blues singer Keb' Mo'. I enjoy taking songs and twisting them into my own tale, like I did with Maggie May. Hearing the lyrics, people imagine a younger man and older woman, especially since Rod Stewart is singing. But not in my story.

Other times I have an image in my head of a scene. That's how Maggie's Gift began, with the story just . . . happening. Each sentence brought the next one to me as I imagined it all taking place.

And a few of my stories have come through challenges from and conversations with another author.

I don't do well with outlines, even for NaNo. I jot down hair color, ages, names of cities, etc. to be sure I'm consistent, but that's usually scribbled on a paper in pencil so I can change anything later.

Nothing earth-shattering or fancy, I'm afraid.
nike air rift
nike air ninja

 

[Mrtouf]

The new and fresh ideas come to me when I'm not writing. Now and then I like to listen to music or watch TV to try and set the right mood, but sometimes I get an idea when I least expect it, like when I'm walking home and happen to look up at the night sky.

As far as the writing process goes I like to write without an outline at first and when I'm redrafting I use an outline, to make sure each part of the story is developed.

When someone else suggests ways in which the story can be improved, I take their suggestions seriously because it's easy to get so caught up writing something that I forget about the reader, who doesn't know the characters and the plot like I do. Outside perspective won't give you the nuts and bolts you need for your story but it'll help a whole lot more than the illegible assembly instructions.

 

[PacoFear]

My better ideas come when I'm driving for some reason.

Oddly, I think there's an episode of Big Bang Theory on this. Sheldon takes a menial job as a busboy where Penny works because he believes doing a menial task will free up his higher brain functions to work on his theoretical physics problems. It works, of course.

Anybody do their best thinkin' while doing dumb stuff?

 

[_Lynn_]

When someone else suggests ways in which the story can be improved, I take their suggestions seriously because it's easy to get so caught up writing something that I forget about the reader, who doesn't know the characters and the plot like I do. Outside perspective won't give you the nuts and bolts you need for your story but it'll help a whole lot more than the illegible assembly instructions.

That's why I use beta readers. I have two authors I respect and trust. They don't hold back on anything I send them, even if it means they find the entire piece lacking in depth, emotion, plot, etc. They find the gaps I missed and point out places I could improve the story.

My better ideas come when I'm driving for some reason.

Oddly, I think there's an episode of Big Bang Theory on this. Sheldon takes a menial job as a busboy where Penny works because he believes doing a menial task will free up his higher brain functions to work on his theoretical physics problems. It works, of course.

Anybody do their best thinkin' while doing dumb stuff?

If I'm not writing, I'm not thinking about writing. So ideas don't come to me out of the blue. And I don't see something happen and think about making a story out of it. My brain isn't in writing-mode until I'm sitting down to write.

 

[Mrtouf]

Anybody do their best thinkin' while doing dumb stuff?

I get good ideas for dialogue from talking to or listening to other people at work. And when I am doing repetitive tasks there is time to get another train of thought going. It helps to keep boredom in check.

It also helps to tell people at work that you're writing something, even if you aren't going to tell them what you're writing. A little encouragement now and then goes a long way.

I wouldn't say work is dumb though, more that it gives you stimuli that you don't always have when you're sitting in front of the computer.

 

[Firebrain]

All my characters have a bit of me in them - I just emphasise different points.

Actually, it occurred to me the other day; I gave xx one of my issues, xxx another and x another. They're all pretty screwed. I've got all three of these issues...I'm evidently beyond help [sobs into cereal]

 

[HeyAll]

Great thread.

Ideas- I just think of a situation and figure out how you get from point A to point Z while keeping the realism. For instance, an incest story, you can't have the characters just fuck. The fun part is the build up, it's very wrong, but you know they're going to do it- so how does it happen? And why?

Development- I just keep asking myself 'what happens next?' For instance, I'm working on a story where a son finds himself spying on his mother and her new boyfriend. Then it evolves to him seeing them again another day, then to him finding nude pictures of her, ect... The key is too keep is at realistic as possible while continueing to escalate it. If it's not realistic and they just fuck for no reason, there's no point to it.

I've found that I come up with the best plot points...what happens next...while I jerk off in the morning thinking about the story.

I also have some other stuff in the works. All my writtings are done in first person. I feel it's the best way to tell a story because it's more engaging, you see it from the main characters point of view.

Why Lit- Why not? Lots of readers here, and the format is really good, everything is simple. I'm excited for others to read my work soon.





btw, Henry's Problem is a really good story you wrote



cheers

 

[XQSmith]

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[XQSmith]

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[CWatson]

That's a good sign. It's one of the hallmarks of a true writer, and not just someone who's dabbling. =) And what you said about "sketches" is why I always like to write stories that are the fusion of more-than-one idea: sometimes a single idea isn't enough to sustain an entire story. (More on that later.)

I'm not like MistressLynn. I'm always thinking about writing. ...Well, that's not true, I'm not always thinking about the craft of writing. But my mind is always open. This is where the "asking-questions" thing comes back in with a vengeance. Every moment I am awake, I am evaluating the actions and events and concepts I encounter, and wondering what they mean in the context of human life in general and my life in particular, and asking where they could lead if they were incorporated into a narrative. Sometimes it's not even events, just random ruminations: recently I got an entire novel out of asking what might happen if, as a last request, a young man on death row asked for a chance to lose his virginity before he went. (Or, rather, I will have an entire novel once I finish writing the frakking thing, but that's another matter.) You only get so much time to write, but ideas can show up at any time whatsoever. And that's why it's critical to be able to capture any idea that shows up, at any time.

The way I described it to my band, when I was encouraging them to try writing their own music (and when I had a band; we dissolved in January), is that you have to turn your mind into a giant Venus Flytrap. (Some of them were grossed out by this analogy, but I'm sticking to it.) Most of the time the flytrap is open, at rest, waiting... Ho-hum, yawn. But every now and then, something lands on it. And, like I said, you cannot predict when Inspiration is going to swing by; he's a very busy man and isn't good about returning phone calls. (Well, my muse is a man; yours might not be.) So you better be good at clamping shut on that idea the instant it arrives. Because that's actually the hard part. Once you have the idea, you can chew it, mull over it, digest it, decide what to do with it; you can write it (or not), and if it turns out bad, you can rewrite it, because once the idea is on the page, it's yours for all eternity. But if you miss the idea?--if it lands and takes off again and you're too slow to catch it? It's gone... and it's not coming back. You have one chance to grab the idea, and it could be the idea that changes your life. So practice opening your mind, and practice closing it fast, for when Inspiration drops by with the idea that will make your fortune.

(And of course if you're me, you need more than one idea before a novel will take off. I mean, a young man on death row, losing his virginity the night before he meets the needle--that's a vignette, not a novel. What else can I add to it to really flesh out the situation? Well, there's the question of how our death-row inmate--let's call him Keith--got there, what he did and how he feels about it. There's also the question of who is going to sleep with him; even if the warden asks, it's somewhat unlikely that any of the local redlighters will step forward to volunteer. No, it's gotta be a gal from the community, someone who knew Keith from before. And who would willingly sleep with a condemned criminal? What kind of girl is she--let's call her Helen--that she does this? And suddenly I have more material to work with, because Helen is an interesting girl too.

(And--ooh, even better!--what if she got pregnant? Now I can start the story at a later date, when her daughter Anna is starting to strike out on her own, in that way teenagers do, and have Helen fretting over the fact that Anna seems to be following in her parents' footsteps in the worst way possible, making not only her father's mistakes but her mother's as well. And now I have my second idea, my second theme--the question of whether the sins of the father are the sins of the son. The question of whether we are condemned to repeat our parents' mistakes, because our parents made those mistakes. The question of whether we are slaves to our programming or can choose to be better than we were made. And now I have my complete novel: on one hand, Anna's journey to become her own woman; on the other, the mystery of who Helen is, and who Keith was, and how this all came to be. And on a third, an historian who comes in having scented a story, and who does the completely non-objective thing of falling in love with Helen. And Keith, the character who started it all? He's been dead 17 years. But hey, being dead doesn't stop you from being a main character.)

And all this? Just because my mind was open and asking questions. What if I had missed it? That would be a shame. So I keep asking questions... and Inspiration keeps answering.

 

[HeyAll]

Another thing, I think the best written stories are the ones that are written like a tv show, where it has multiple scenes and reaslistic dialouge.

That's how I approach my stories, you create the characters and develop significant build up for realism. If the story doesn't seem believe if it were on a tv sex show, then it doesn't work as a story.