Fan-fic = plagiarism?

[TheCaptain]

Hello to all,

I love to write new, original and, hopefully, popular work just as much as the next author, but I also have a real affection for certain television shows and would love to turn some of my favourite TV-viewing into hot, somewhat twisted erotic stories.

But is it plagiarism to work with the work of others? Is it wrong to take a show like - in this instance - stargate, and use a few of its characters, locations, past history and technology, and create a wholely original, kinky story to post here on Lit?

One person on a thread that I established in the Story Ideas section here expressed their opinion that it WAS plagiarism, but I argue that it ISN'T if you make it abundantly clear the the original premise of the show was NOT your own concept and that this is an original story BASED ON someone else's concept...

Other people's opinions (fellow authors appreciated most) would be great!

Thanks very much

Capt

 

[oggbashan]

Fan-Fic is a popular theme but does have difficulties with copyright.

Fan-Fic is only possible because the copyright owners can't pursue everyone who does it. If you tried successfully to make money out of an erotic story based on Stargate the writs would land on your doormat like confetti.

The company and creators own the intellectual rights and will do so for longer than your lifetime.

What you do for free and for your own amusement is likely to be ignored. IF what you write became widely known and popular you could be in real trouble.

Sorry. That's how it is.

Og

 

[TheCaptain]

Fan-Fic is a popular theme but does have difficulties with copyright.

Fan-Fic is only possible because the copyright owners can't pursue everyone who does it. If you tried successfully to make money out of an erotic story based on Stargate the writs would land on your doormat like confetti.

The company and creators own the intellectual rights and will do so for longer than your lifetime.

What you do for free and for your own amusement is likely to be ignored. IF what you write became widely known and popular you could be in real trouble.

Sorry. That's how it is.

Og

mate, that's fine, and exactly what I thought. It's only that I don't want to come across as ripping off someone else's ideas... I doubt this story could be viewed that way, though, cause I'm going WAY OUT THERE with this one, way further than the show could ever have gone for decency's sake

 

[oggbashan]

mate, that's fine, and exactly what I thought. It's only that I don't want to come across as ripping off someone else's ideas... I doubt this story could be viewed that way, though, cause I'm going WAY OUT THERE with this one, way further than the show could ever have gone for decency's sake

That is the real problem. They might not object too much to a pastiche of their stories. Way-out would give them problems because they produce family entertainment. Your offence in their eyes is MUCH WORSE than just a tribute story. Indecent acts with their characters could make them reach for their lawyers.

Og

 

[TheCaptain]

That is the real problem. They might not object too much to a pastiche of their stories. Way-out would give them problems because they produce family entertainment. Your offence in their eyes is MUCH WORSE than just a tribute story. Indecent acts with their characters could make them reach for their lawyers.

Og

*sigh* pretty harsh though

If its okay by law to write erotic, totally fictional stories about REAL-LIFE celebrities, then surely its alright to write fictional 'episodes' about television shows, parodies, if you will? There's numerous Power Ranger, Star Trek, the OC, Desperate Housewives etc erotic storis out there... I really dont think they're presuing any of them in the courts, if they were it would be pretty well-reported on the internet and then I'd stop writing this ASAP!

And, if people were going to be reading this story, then they should be consenting to reading the 'indecent acts' anyway, wouldnt you think? I'd only be posting the work here on Lit regardless, so can't I hide behind (well, I'm Aussie but still it shouldnt really matter) the First Amendment, or whatever Amendment protects civil liberties?

(wow, this whole thing is going pear-shaped on me! Beginning to wonder if the story is really worth presuing.... )

 

[oggbashan]

You asked for advice. I think my advice is sound.

However many people write erotica based on fan-fic and get away with it possibly without realising the risks.

If the companies that own the shows started to get nasty then everyone who has written fan-fic could be a target. I have written a story based on characters in someone else's book. I didn't use the characters themselves, just the idea of the characters and I acknowledged the source. If the author objected I would delete the story.

I can't tell you that erotic fan-fic is OK. You have to make that judgement and take the risk.

Og

 

[TheCaptain]

You asked for advice. I think my advice is sound.

However many people write erotica based on fan-fic and get away with it possibly without realising the risks.

If the companies that own the shows started to get nasty then everyone who has written fan-fic could be a target. I have written a story based on characters in someone else's book. I didn't use the characters themselves, just the idea of the characters and I acknowledged the source. If the author objected I would delete the story.

I can't tell you that erotic fan-fic is OK. You have to make that judgement and take the risk.

Og

lol sure and I appreciate your imput, no ill will was intended and I hope it didn't come across that way that I was being dismissive or rude. I apologize if you thought that I was

 

[gauchecritic]

At a guess I would say that a well paid (or smart, are they mutually exclusive?) lawyer would use the Falwell? decision as precedent. No harm was intended etc. and say that it is just as applicable to make believe characters as it is to real 'celebrities'.

On the other hand I very much doubt that you could get any publishing company to help you make money out of it. Money is probably at the root of fan-fic lawsuits and here is where I can see a possible problem. If your story won one of the prizes at Lit then you have made money from someone else's 'intellectual property'.

With that proviso I'd say post your story, you'd be one amongst thousands writing for this category and I would imagine that if there was any real likelyhood of being sued then Laurel and Manu wouldn't have made the category available.

 

[SlaveMasterUK]

There's plenty of people who write fanfic without any problems. TBH, I wouldn't be too concerned. I couldn't say how this would stand in court, but I believe the general guidelines on fanfic are these:

You can write stories using characters and scenarious from other works, provided you state that the work is created as fanfic and you name where the characters/scenarios came from.

You don't charge a fee for viewing, or attempt to sell the work as your own, without prior permission of the copyright holder.

There are a great many fanfic sites on the web for many popular series and films, such as Star Trek, Star Wars, etc etc etc the list is almost endless. Even if they wanted to, copyright holders couldn't trace and shut down everyone who makes available fanfic stories. By and large it's tolerated, provided the guidelines are adhered to.

Obviously, by writing erotic material, or material which may present the characters in a defamatory light, you're potentially entering a grey area. The copyright owner could suggest that you're misrepresenting their property, and that it is having a detrimental effect on that property.

HOWEVER, I seriously doubt that by posting on Lit a fanfic of Stargate characters getting it on in some twisted inter-galactic BDSM romp, you'd get letters of complaint from the copyright owner. Despite the size of lit, it doesn't have quite the public attention to cause a significant misrepresentation of Stargate.

If you received any complaints, you could simply remove the story immediately - that would probably avoid any further action.

Chill out, dude

 

[TheEarl]

I would say very definitely that fan-fic is not plagiarism. I don't even buy the official Lit excuse that it is a pastiche of the original.

It's a mark of respect to the original creator that you think that there are more stories that their characters could tell. This is why I never hold with bad fan-fiction or Mary-Sues. Anything which disrupts the plot-continuity without a good reason or is written without utmost care and respect for the original characters should never have been written at all. I can't abide fanfic where the author just wanted to make thecharacters have sex for no reason, like he was puppeteering them.

If you can make me believe in the way you are moving these characters and the motions they are performing, then I approve of fan-fiction. If you're just trying to make Buffy and Willow shag without thinking of a good reason or something like that, then that's just nsulting to the original show.

The Earl

 

[SlaveMasterUK]

If you're just trying to make Buffy and Willow shag without thinking of a good reason or something like that, then that's just nsulting to the original show.

A good reason to make Buffy and Willow shag is 'cos it would be damned horny to watch

 

[TheEarl]

A good reason to make Buffy and Willow shag is 'cos it would be damned horny to watch

Nu-uh. That would be a good reason to make Alysson Hannigan and Sarah Michelle Gellar shag. Them, you can do with what you will. <SMUK runs over to collect the two girls>

If you can give me a good, canonical reason for Buffy and Willow to be shagging, then you can do it. If not, then you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a pen and paper with that idea in your head.

The Earl

 

[dr_mabeuse]

The law in the US says that you can "plagiarize" copyrighted works and characters for the purposes of parody or polictical comentary, and you can do the same with public figures. So it would be okay to do a Star Trek parody with, say, George Bush and Dick Cheney as Kirk and Spock.

The Disney Corp is vigorously challenging this concept though, and they're probably the most aggressive at controlling their copyrights. If you used some of their characters even in a Lit story, I wouldn't be surprised if they went after you. They've gone after other small fry, in some cases even kids.

My own knock on Fan Fic is that it's usually the lowest form of writing. The characters and settings aren't created by the author, they're lifted from someone else, and the stories are usually nothing more than someone's wet dream of what they'd like to do to Britney Spears or Peter Parker. If I had to pick the one category on Literotica that contained the worst writing, it would be Fan Fic. That's just my personal opinion, of course.

But as long as you stay away from Disney, I don't think you'd have any legal worries about posting fan fic here. As others have said, you can always yank it if someone objects.

 

[oggbashan]

US law is lax by international standards on copyright and plaigarism.Because they were the world's worst at protecting foreign authors from US publishers who would rip-off works with NO Payment. Now they complain about China doing in the 21st century what the US did in the 19th and 20th.

Australian Law may be different. UK Law is different and far stronger about use of characters.

'Everybody does it so it must be OK' is always a false argument. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Og

 

[TheEarl]

My own knock on Fan Fic is that it's usually the lowest form of writing. The characters and settings aren't created by the author, they're lifted from someone else, and the stories are usually nothing more than someone's wet dream of what they'd like to do to Britney Spears or Peter Parker. If I had to pick the one category on Literotica that contained the worst writing, it would be Fan Fic. That's just my personal opinion, of course.

And it's the wankers who spoil it for us all. The characters may not be our own, but it takes a huge amount of skill to stay canonical to someone else's work, ensuring that the characters stay true and to ape someone else's voice successfully so that your intrusion into that universe seems natural.

Lots of people write shit incest and shit romance stories too, yet Fan-fiction is always the category that gets judged on its shittest contributions, rather than its best.

The Earl

 

[Kassiana]

For what it's worth, J.K. Rowling has stated that she doesn't mind fanfic based on the Harry Potter world and seemed rather amused by the fact that others find her world worthy of fanfic.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

I have never felt the slightest inclination to write a piece of fan fiction, not for originals that I like, nor for originals that I dispise.

However:

If you copied the original Stargate screenplay, and sold it on the internet POD or even as an e-Book, with your name on it as the author, you would be guilty of plagiarism. If you left the original author’s name on what you were selling, you would not be guilty of plagairism, but you would be guilty of copyright infringement.

In either case, an attempt would be made to force you (1) to stop and desist from your illegal activities, and (2) to disgorge any money your illegal activity with someone else’s intellectual property had earned.

The rightful author might also press for a fine to be levied against you. This becomes more likely, if a survey of your financial condition indicates that you would be able to pay said fine. He might still press for a fine, for its public relations value, to try to convince others not to follow your example. If, to the copyright holder, the lawyer’s fees appear to be worth the cost in an effort to prevent future infringements, he might still try to levy the fine.

If, however, you publish, on a free site, Stargate: Invasion of the Seraglio, which is obviously NOT the work of the author, is not drawing royalties out of the author’s pocket, and is not being confused as an example of the level of work he is capable of producing, it is doubtful that any action will be taken.

It is well understood by professional authors, especially authors of popular fiction presented on popular media, that these free, amateur infringements, are the work of fans of his work. Most recognize that it ill behoves them to alienate their own fan base.

However, if your free amateur infringement, in some way (to the author) seems to attack either him, or the integrity of his work, no law prevents him from at least trying to suppress your alternate vision, and possibly, to exact a monetary punishment for your effrontery.

Stories which send up the author’s work as incompetent, or employ the author’s own creations to advocate opposing political, societal, or moral persuasions, are more likely to result in legal action, even when financial redress seems less likely.

The size of the copyright infringer's audience will also go some way in deciding where it is worth seeking legal redress, even in cases of an infringement which directly opposes the author's intent for writing the piece. Bringing a lawsuit against a little-known infringement will only gain notoriety for the infringing work.

 

[Sabledrake]

I write fanfic and I consider it to present a unique challenge. Here's a world and characters that are known and loved and obsessed about by many people besides myself. If I try to write in that world with those characters, and I screw up, they are gonna let me know. Hoo, boy, are they gonna let me know. But if I can keep it true and make it plausible while still getting away with dark or naughty stuff, then hey, I'm a happy girl.

-- Sabledrake

 

[yui]

Just an interesting cultural note on this subject: In Japan, there are doujinshi (fanfic type manga/comics). Doujinshi feature characters and/or stories from popular anime or manga that are used without the permission of the original author. For the most part, nobody sues and some of the doujinshi artists/manga are hugely popular. They make money selling these fanfics. Doujinshi typically specialize in putting popular characters in erotic situations. Many, many times they are yaoi (male on male) in nature. The funny part is that are published and sold alongside the originals.

 

[Couture]

Just an interesting cultural note on this subject: In Japan, there are doujinshi (fanfic type manga/comics). Doujinshi feature characters and/or stories from popular anime or manga that are used without the permission of the original author. For the most part, nobody sues and some of the doujinshi artists/manga are hugely popular. They make money selling these fanfics. Doujinshi typically specialize in putting popular characters in erotic situations. Many, many times they are yaoi (male on male) in nature. The funny part is that are published and sold alongside the originals.

IMO sex fanfic is about as far into the satire category as you can get. But who can afford to lawyer it out against a company that makes more money than many countries.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

And it's the wankers who spoil it for us all. The characters may not be our own, but it takes a huge amount of skill to stay canonical to someone else's work, ensuring that the characters stay true and to ape someone else's voice successfully so that your intrusion into that universe seems natural.

You're probably right.

I've written fan-fic of my own, only that was long ago. The subject was the TV show Dallas, which should give you some idea of how long ago it was. I wrote it only for myself, and I still remember the evil pleasure I got from making those characters do just what I wanted them to. I don't know if that's how other people feel when they write fan fic, but that's how it worked for me.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

My lawyer says that he would mangle the penis of a fan-fic writer were it the case that they didn't have permission to use the characters/ideas/etc.

 

[TheEarl]

My lawyer says that he would mangle the penis of a fan-fic writer were it the case that they didn't have permission to use the characters/ideas/etc.

Does your lawyer know how often he gets referenced on this board?

I'd say good fanfiction is the same kind of homage as setting up tributary websites. It's acknowledging your love of the show/film/book/whatever. Any lawyer would be silly to mangle the penises of the devoted fans of his client.

The Earl

 

[TheEarl]

You're probably right.

I've written fan-fic of my own, only that was long ago. The subject was the TV show Dallas, which should give you some idea of how long ago it was. I wrote it only for myself, and I still remember the evil pleasure I got from making those characters do just what I wanted them to. I don't know if that's how other people feel when they write fan fic, but that's how it worked for me.

I'd say it's more a warm pleasure at slipping into a universe that you know very well. I write mostly BtVS fanfiction and I've watched every episode enough times to be able to quote at will (It's my depression television and my 'Need to Relax' television wrapped up into one). Writing fanfic for it is like discovering a new episode that I've never seen before.

The Earl

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Does your lawyer know how often he gets referenced on this board?

I'd say good fanfiction is the same kind of homage as setting up tributary websites. It's acknowledging your love of the show/film/book/whatever. Any lawyer would be silly to mangle the penises of the devoted fans of his client.

The Earl

He's greedy and strange. I love'im