Excuse me Miss Muffin... could I bother you kind folks for some advice?

[kiwiwolf]

I have already posted this on the Authors Hangout board but I'm at a real crossroads here so I thought I would ask here too.

Violence in your erotic story.

In my latest McManuscript (would you like fries with that?) I have some heavy duty hardcore violence planned for the bad guys... and one of the good guys. None is directed towards women and I'll try to keep it as tame as possible. If you are familiar with the story you know it's not violence for the sake of violence.

My question is are there guidelines as to what is acceptable or not in the way of violent content. I've hunted but can't find a guideline. I don't want this chapter to end up in the extreme section and would like to be able to just write it the way it feels right.

Can anyone help me out here?


Any help from anyone will be rewarded by me rolling you in chocolate chips and licking them off.

 

[A7inchPhildo]

A guide line? You need to decide. Just keep in mind the idear is an erotic story not Rambo. If the story is supported around violence then hey "Off with thier heads" if not that is up to you.

If you are talking about gettin head and thier is no body attached well that is not my cup of tea, but niether is scat.

I would write the story as you want it portrayed and if needed to not be extream then tone it down after.

 

[Ms_Kat]

Guidelines

I don't think there are really any hard and fast guidelines on this sort of thing. A lot depends on context and viewpoint. For example, a scene where a hero swoops in and kills the badguys then screws the lusty damsel atop their broken bodies is one thing; screwing her while he kills the bad guys is another, and screwing her with the dead bad guys is yet another.

I try to edit myself as little as possible when first writing. You can always go back and lighten up or make it more dramatic later. The important part is to get it out and complete. You can twidge it into perfection later.


Hugs,

Kat

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I am currently writing a story where the main character is a sniper in WWII. The nature of the character is so tied to her profession that the story demands at least touching on it. Where the violence is not there gratuitously it is still violence which, for me at least is almost the antithesis of erotica. Still, as a writer you must pay heed to the demands of your muse and sometimes that will take you down corridores you might not usually traverse.

If you haven't read any of the N/C stories my suggestion would be to try a few. While they don't all involve violence perse, many do. From those stories you should be able to extrapoate the parameters that the editors here are comfortable with. Sex and violence, at least here in the states have become linked as the two selling points of most of our entertainment. Exactly how you tie them together and to what extent each colors your works has to be a personal decision of you, the writer.

-Colly

 

[hiddenself]

I am currently writing a story where the main character is a sniper in WWII. The nature of the character is so tied to her profession that the story demands at least touching on it.

There were female snipers in WWII?!

 

[KillerMuffin]

Yes. Germany had them, the Russians had them. There are no records (that I've found as of yet) of the Allies ever utilizing female snipers. It's very likely that they did not considering attitudes at the time.

Some names from the USSR:

Lyudmila M. Pavlichenko 309 kills
Nataly V. Kovshova & Maria Polivanova 300 kills
Tatiana Igantovna Kostyrina 102 kills
Aliya Moldagulova 91 kills
Lidiya Gudovanceva 76 kills



Laurel hasn't really set forth any policy on non-eroticized violence, Kiwi m'love. Write what the story dictates you write and then submit it to the site. Laurel will read it and if it's too violent she'll let you know and you can revise it out. What Laurel doesn't publish is the eroticization of certain types of violence, such as rape and snuff. Anymore, these stories are generally taken on a case by case basis on the merit of the story as opposed to a one size fits all ruling.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Hiddenself asked:

There were female snipers in WWII?!


If you are staying on the allied side then the answer is no, but if you look at the red army in general and the partisan bands in particular the answer is emphatically yes. Women served in all the roles men did, from fighter pilots to tankers to throw away grunts. In my story the sniper is working without NKVD portfolio, i.e. the russian security forces are just as likely to kill her as the Germans or the poles for that matter, by this stage of the war (early 1945).

By having her serve without red army rank, which the germans didn't recognize anyway, I can create a fictional woman sniper without using a historic personage or asking my readers not to wonder why such a woman never made the news reels.

My current problem with the story deals with the Tiger II MBT. I need to know if there was a driver's hatch on the forehull, but so far I have found no pictures that tell me for sure. A minute detail, but when I write historic fiction I try to make every detail accurate.

-Colly

 

[KillerMuffin]

It doesn't look like there's a hatch on the forward bulkhead. The appear to be on the top of the turret and on the top of the body forward.

http://www.jed.simonides.org/tanks/papa/pz6tiger2_series/tiger2-series.html

http://www.jed.simonides.org/tanks/papa/pz6tiger2_series/tiger2-porsche/tiger2bp-intro.html

Here's the start page of their history (though you've probably already found it):
http://www.wwiitech.net/main/germany/vehicles/pzkpfw2/index.html

If you watch the movie Kelly's Heroes you can see the Tiger II in action and a really good battle scene that shows it main weaknesses and how to deal with them. Believe it or not.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Thank you so much KM! The hatch on the fore deck is what I needed to verify.

Take care,

Colly

 

[kiwiwolf]

Yes. Germany had them, the Russians had them. There are no records (that I've found as of yet) of the Allies ever utilizing female snipers. It's very likely that they did not considering attitudes at the time.

Some names from the USSR:

Lyudmila M. Pavlichenko 309 kills
Nataly V. Kovshova & Maria Polivanova 300 kills
Tatiana Igantovna Kostyrina 102 kills
Aliya Moldagulova 91 kills
Lidiya Gudovanceva 76 kills



Laurel hasn't really set forth any policy on non-eroticized violence, Kiwi m'love. Write what the story dictates you write and then submit it to the site. Laurel will read it and if it's too violent she'll let you know and you can revise it out. What Laurel doesn't publish is the eroticization of certain types of violence, such as rape and snuff. Anymore, these stories are generally taken on a case by case basis on the merit of the story as opposed to a one size fits all ruling.

Thank you all for your replies. I appreciate that this isn't the forum for this sort of question but I had to ask here for a balanced reply.

Muff my little sweet potatoe... my problem is that I get right into detail... big time. You are familiar with the story and know my writing style so you know that if I'm going to put it in, it's gonna be detailed. I have thought about scrapping the story line but that would mean scrapping the story and surprisingly it is my most popular to date. And I hated it when I posted it!

Rape and snuff will NEVER appear in anything I write. The violence in the upcoming chapter will be between consenting tough guys.

Once again thanks folks and especially you KM. You actually have a supporting role in the upcoming opus.

 

[kiwiwolf]

Hiddenself asked:

There were female snipers in WWII?!


If you are staying on the allied side then the answer is no, but if you look at the red army in general and the partisan bands in particular the answer is emphatically yes. Women served in all the roles men did, from fighter pilots to tankers to throw away grunts. In my story the sniper is working without NKVD portfolio, i.e. the russian security forces are just as likely to kill her as the Germans or the poles for that matter, by this stage of the war (early 1945).

By having her serve without red army rank, which the germans didn't recognize anyway, I can create a fictional woman sniper without using a historic personage or asking my readers not to wonder why such a woman never made the news reels.

My current problem with the story deals with the Tiger II MBT. I need to know if there was a driver's hatch on the forehull, but so far I have found no pictures that tell me for sure. A minute detail, but when I write historic fiction I try to make every detail accurate.

-Colly

Colleen, check out the Janes sites for historical armour detail. I think the Tiger 2 had a for hatch for the driver from Operation Barbarossa onwards. If I had a bit more time I would dig up the url for you. My apologies but my bed calls... I'm knackered.

For the record, the French used female snipers from the resistance and it is rumoured that female snipers from the OSS (the precursor to the CIA), in Europe during WW2. I'll try to verify.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Thanks Kiwi

I assumed the tiger II followed the Panther and Tiger and had access to the crew compartment for the driver and loader in the fore deck, but when working with historical stories I make it a point not to asume anything.

I already did a story about a woman in the French Resistance, oddly enough titled resistance (my, but I am original). My research on the subject did not turn up anything on snipers, but for the purpose of that plotline she didn't have to be particularly skilled, in fact it was her lack of skill as a soldier that was important to the plot.

I also have one working on the WASP program in the U.S. and one in the planning stages for the Royal Navies Auxilliary. I love doing the research for these stories, although I doubt many who reads them appreciate how much work I put in. I love to spin a yarn, but I am hyper concious of detail

-Colly

 

[jon.hayworth]

Colleen,

One or two thoughts.

(1) The Russians called WW2 "The Great Patriotic War".

(2) The British Special Operations Executive dropped a number of female Wireless Operators into occupied France - some were French or Anglo French and others who were competent in the language.

(3) The Russians were allies with the British and Americans.

(4) The Russians also used women fighter pilots - try getting hold of this book. MYLES B. "Night Witches" Panther 1983. ISBN 0-586-05812-5.

(5) Be carefull with the Russian Partisan Bands - they were not the ad-hoc organisations that sprap in some parts of Western Europe - They were large scale armies that had been left in place according to a plan. (The former Soviet leader Kruschov was leader of one of these bands).
As I understand, they used military ranks and had unit identifacations.
The British in 1940 created a simular "in place secret army" that would have been activated if Germany had succesfully invaded.

(6) I noted, you said of your methodology. That you create entirely unidentifiable characters. - Conventionally you can write identifiable characters provided that their actions do not alter the course of world events. Take a look at O'Brien's or Douglas Reeman's naval stories for an example of how masters of the art do this, weaving not only fictional characters but fictional ships into the pages of history.

Of course this rule about not changing history is sometimes broken by writing a "what if ..." story - Len Deighton wrote such a story 3with a German invasion of Britain.



I hope that these few notes are of some help.

jon

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys. If I were a little more sure of myself I might actually have this one workshopped. Its a bit dark and a bit long and I think might benefit from some input, but I'll probablly just struggle on with it until I am not overly displeased and post it

-Colly