Everything is somewhat derivative, right?

[BillyAndBetty]

..........

 

[NoJo]

To provide an idea of what's better in our opinion, the three of us were naked as we sat on the sofa

In your opinion.

 

[ElectricBlue]

When is a story your own, when is it derivative, fan-fiction, or plagiarized. Okay the last one is easy, but ...

I picked this question out of your post because I think I can guarantee you've not read a story like this one before - which makes this story uniquely my own:

https://www.literotica.com/beta/s/the-fantastic-hotel

 

[SimonDoom]

When is a story your own, when is it derivative, fan-fiction, or plagiarized. Okay the last one is easy, but ...

If it is easy for you to know when a story is plagiarized, then you have nothing to worry about. Don't think about it. Just write.

Whatever story you write probably is, to some degree, derived from or influenced by other things you've read. There's nothing wrong with that, at all.

My recommendation is not to worry about originality. If you just focus on writing YOUR story, the way you want to tell it, it will end up being original enough. That's all that's necessary.

 

[MelissaBaby]

My latest story is about a group of women who work in a strip club, their relationships with each other, and how their work affects the other parts of their lives. (Shameless plug:The Gold Dollar Girls)

At one point I began to feel a bit unsettled about some elements of the story that just did not feel like my own creation, but that I was half remembering something. Sure enough, after a little research, I realized that I was very close to rewriting the movie Dancing At The Blue Iguana. I backed out of the narrative lines that were closest, and ironically, I think that being consciously alert to keeping away from the movie plot forced me to put more effort into my own story and made it stronger.

 

[KeithD]

My reaction to whether something is or isn't derivative is "so what?" One of the fascinating things about fiction is how open it is for exploration and fresh perspectives, letting new creativity explore existing themes, giving them variety and new life, e.g. Romeo and Juliet and Westside Story.

 

[SamScribble]

I have read five versions of Beowulf - which leaves at least 290 that I haven't read. Of the five that I have read, I enjoyed Seamus Heaney's best.

 

[8letters]

It all depends on how different do you think a story needs to be to not be derivative. I'm writing a story that has a lot of similarities to a scouries' story. How different does my story have to be to not be derivative? I have a Zoom call in mine and scouries didn't (as it was written before Zoom calls). Is that enough?

Recently, I had a beta-reader read one of my stories that I put aside to see if she thought I should finish it. She thought it had the same basic premise as Beachbum1958's "Lost & Found". I thought it had a very different premise. She focused on that in both stories the MMC was a son that the family had thought was useless and had disowned, while the MFC was the perfect child that the family had showered with love and money. I focused on that the well-off MFC in my story hires the struggling MMC to be her date at a wedding, whereas I read Beachbum1958's story to be a retelling of "The Count of Monte Cristo" except the bad guys are the parents. Which of us is right?

 

[Sextified]

My latest story is about a group of women who work in a strip club, their relationships with each other, and how their work affects the other parts of their lives. (Shameless plug:The Gold Dollar Girls)

At one point I began to feel a bit unsettled about some elements of the story that just did not feel like my own creation, but that I was half remembering something. Sure enough, after a little research, I realized that I was very close to rewriting the movie Dancing At The Blue Iguana. I backed out of the narrative lines that were closest, and ironically, I think that being consciously alert to keeping away from the movie plot forced me to put more effort into my own story and made it stronger.

There was a great debate over plagiarism in the Sword & Sorcery world many years back. An author, Dennis L. McKiernan, decided that he wanted to try his hand at the Tolkien "Lord of the Rings" world, and began a series.

Already an author, when he showed it to his publisher, they asked the Tolkien estate for their permission. Of course they were denied, but the publisher asked McKiernan to rework and expand his world into more of his own unique creation and take new directions.

It took him a while, but eventually he did create his own world in his own voice, and got his own fan base.

The Strip Club world has a lot similar stories written about it, because the foundations of that world give rise to the same issues and problems for the girls, staff, managers, and customers. The significant others of the dancers, and wives and girlfriends of the customers usually left out of the action at the clubs, are still an untapped source of material.

In my own stories, I found by adding in the people NOT there, it gives a much different feel to the threads. Most of my stories that went on to the 'other website' are based on the consequences and aftermath of club activity.

I totally agree with you. Purposefully staying away from certain subjects and stories definitely made the work better, and me a better writer.

I call it the "Law of Human Derivation" quandary.

We all have our own backgrounds, but have so many things in common. So in my mind, anything that rings true and has emotional impact to the readers, is worthwhile of writing.

Sometimes as authors, we forget that Readers themselves are products of that Derivation. They both want and need stories to follow some of the traditional lines. The trick for me was to create plot lines that were Human-focused, not Event-focused.

The moment you have a well thought out vibrant character, dealing with situations the Readers have either had or wish they could have had? Then no matter how well trodden the ground you cover is, your work becomes unique.

 

[Lori_the_Hoosier]

It all depends on how different do you think a story needs to be to not be derivative. I'm writing a story that has a lot of similarities to a scouries' story. How different does my story have to be to not be derivative? I have a Zoom call in mine and scouries didn't (as it was written before Zoom calls). Is that enough?

Recently, I had a beta-reader read one of my stories that I put aside to see if she thought I should finish it. She thought it had the same basic premise as Beachbum1958's "Lost & Found". I thought it had a very different premise. She focused on that in both stories the MMC was a son that the family had thought was useless and had disowned, while the MFC was the perfect child that the family had showered with love and money. I focused on that the well-off MFC in my story hires the struggling MMC to be her date at a wedding, whereas I read Beachbum1958's story to be a retelling of "The Count of Monte Cristo" except the bad guys are the parents. Which of us is right?

I ran this past bb1958 to get his perspective and while he didn't consciously set out to rewrite 'The Count of Monte Cristo' he does see the similarity now that it's been pointed out to him, and marvels that he didn't see it before. Maybe there really is no such thing as an original story anymore, just new takes and retakes on basic recurring themes; in like vein he pointed out to me that when he watched the Anthony Banderas movie 'The 13th Warrior' all he could see was a retelling of 'Beowulf', which I hadn't seen at all, I just wrote it off as just another 'sword and sandals' Northern Thing epic. I still loved the movie, though, I mean, Anthony Banderas...

Keith D is right, though; if a reworking creates a new and different view of an existing story, then it is an original story in its own right; Shakespeare's reputation hasn't suffered one whit by Hollywood turning out 'Kiss Me Kate' & '10 Things I hate about you' (The Taming of the shrew), West Side Story (Romeo and Juliet),'She's the Man' (12th Night) 'Forbidden Planet' (The Tempest), even 'The Lion King (Hamlet)

It may even be that these adaptations have brought new attention and a new readership to Shakespeare, curious to see the art and inspiration behind their favorite movies. My 2 cents worth, now crucify me.

 

[XerXesXu]

We could do a satirical fan-fiction where writers write it our way but are forced by advertisers and the studio to do it the tired old way.

--Billy

Quite. The advertisers and studio want to make money. The audience demands a conventional story arc with protagonist, antagonist, conflict and resolution. They adore tropes; they want the same story repeated over and over again. I’m working my way through the third series of Unforgotten. Fantastic TV. It’s the same as series one and two, same characters, slightly different corpse, same story structure. Actually it’s very similar to Silent Witness, which is into its 22nd series.

The trick is to do it the tired old way if you want to be read and make money, but do it better, more engagingly – not especially easy when great writers have been refining the tropes for generations before you - but that's the challenge.

 

[Abbafan]

I ran this past bb1958 to get his perspective and while he didn't consciously set out to rewrite 'The Count of Monte Cristo' he does see the similarity now that it's been pointed out to him, and marvels that he didn't see it before. Maybe there really is no such thing as an original story anymore, just new takes and retakes on basic recurring themes; in like vein he pointed out to me that when he watched the Anthony Banderas movie 'The 13th Warrior' all he could see was a retelling of 'Beowulf', which I hadn't seen at all, I just wrote it off as just another 'sword and sandals' Northern Thing epic. I still loved the movie, though, I mean, Anthony Banderas...

Keith D is right, though; if a reworking creates a new and different view of an existing story, then it is an original story in its own right; Shakespeare's reputation hasn't suffered one whit by Hollywood turning out 'Kiss Me Kate' & '10 Things I hate about you' (The Taming of the shrew), West Side Story (Romeo and Juliet),'She's the Man' (12th Night) 'Forbidden Planet' (The Tempest), even 'The Lion King (Hamlet)

It may even be that these adaptations have brought new attention and a new readership to Shakespeare, curious to see the art and inspiration behind their favorite movies. My 2 cents worth, now crucify me.

I think that's about right. The movie Alien has a pretty familiar premise, for example, but found a new way to tell that kind of story. It's when both characters and the story beats start to follow a little too closely that you get into plagiarism territory.

 

[lovecraft68]

Hard to think there's anything new under the sun, but then again there are long existing and over used tropes in every genre and people can't get enough of them.

The trick is to put your personal stamp on it, whether it be a twist, a certain style, just change it up enough to be a sort of homage to the trope, but enough of 'you' to make it different.

I've seen a lot of older stories in newer stories, but as long as there's an attempt to add something, I never care. When something just says copy cat to me, though I just drop off.

But it seems a lot of readers don't care at all. There was a popular taboo series here a few years ago that looked like the author went to the HOF list in I/T and took from every story on the list and blatantly, and people were acting like it was the best series ever written. I found it when someone told me they felt like they'd 'borrowed' a device from my ongoing at the time series which is when I checked it out and was like...okay this is Party of Five, this is Conflicted. this is Everyone Loves my Ass this is...and yup there was some of mine in there too.

As a writer I give zero credit to that level of laziness, but as I said, the readers don't seem to mind.