Hey all, I have an idea for a story in my head and have gotten as far as outling it and up to 110 pages, 12/27ths through outline, but i stuill feel like I have no idea where I'm going with this thing. HOW DO YOU STAY ON TASK, and not go off in 1000 other directions. Are there any Litteroti's out there who know what I'm talking about? What do you use for this problem?
Even with an outline its hard
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rgraham666
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Oop. Sorry. Never mind. 
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Not to be the pot calling the kettle black but I think he has 110 pages of story against his 27 point outline and he is only up to the 12th point in the outline!rgraham666 said:110 pages of outline!
No offense, but you're just writing a story, not planning the Normandy invasion.
I try to keep my stories within a handlable size. It sounds like you've got way too much on your plate.
If I might suggest? Go through it and see how much you actually need of the stuff you have planned. It sounds like there may be a lot of unnecessary things in there.
carsonshepherd
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There is a very good possibility that the soul of the novel is actually in the unplanned tangents, rather than in the outline.
I've discovered some amazing things about my story and characters when I follow those rabbits.
I've discovered some amazing things about my story and characters when I follow those rabbits.
M
MissBri
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Sorry, no. The one and only time I used an outline for a long story I never finished it. So you see you are not the only one with trouble staying on task. I do have several outlines for stories I'd like to write, but never seem to find the time to start let alone continue.PenanceS said:
carsonshepherd
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MistressJett said:That's why I don't bother with outlines.
I agree. The first draft IS my outline.
M
MissBri
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carsonshepherd
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Sometimes you can spend so much time writing a detailed twenty-seven point outline, you never actually write it.
BlackShanglan
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I've done all sorts of approaches. Draft first. Outline first. Draft then outline then draft some more. Notes but no outline. Outline but no notes. It's odd how different stroies seem to ask for different things.
champagne1982
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This is a drive-by silly attack...
I do so love a hard outline...
I do so love a hard outline...
carsonshepherd
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PenanceS said:
Are you writing the story? Or just outlining it?
(Answer - find what works for you, like Shanglan said, in this instance.)
M
MissBri
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I hear ya there. I just have trouble staying on task, its like those damned B movies, were sopmebody is going to play tennis, and is in full gear and walks into another room only to reappear in an evening gown.
I've done that so many times it got frustrating... so I figured "try an outline" now I can't tell where I am in either the story or the outline, that was what I was trying to get at.
I've done that so many times it got frustrating... so I figured "try an outline" now I can't tell where I am in either the story or the outline, that was what I was trying to get at.
BlackShanglan
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PenanceS said:
Ah, I see. So you've got an outline - is it complete? - and a story that may or may not match the outline?
Something that often helps me when I have done all I can on a draft is to do an "as it currently stands" outline. That lets me see more easily, usually on a single page, what I've got and where it needs to go. If you've got both a draft and a pre-written outline, doing a "current state of the draft" outline might help you because it would be easier to compare to the original outline than the entire 110 pages is.
Something else that greatly helped me was buying a very large whiteboard (4X6) for my office. When I need to scrawl planning note or ideas, I put them on that. Very helpful. can add, delete, draw arrows, etc. in order to get the thoughts where they need to be. I can often see better what it is that I am missing.
Shanglan
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My advice is to just keep slogging along... let it go in other directions... let it grow to be as long as its going to be... And then you have a first draft.
Then when you rewrite you can cut out all the crap that doesnt need to be there.
Until your draft is done you never know what is important.
Then when you rewrite you can cut out all the crap that doesnt need to be there.
Until your draft is done you never know what is important.
drksideofthemoon
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PenanceS said:
I write like I was taught to program. I break my story down to manageable pieces, or chapters. I have a rough outline in my head, but nothing firm. I allow the characters to take the story where they want it.
My advice is not to overplan your story, but to start it and to see where it takes you.
English Lady
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I think you're best bet is just to write. Go with the flow, follow tangents etc then decide what you want to keep when you get to the editing stage.
Myself, I have a vague idea of what a story will be like. I don't always know how it will end and sometimes I know the ending but I'm not sure how I'll get there. I do like to have a vague outline in mind, but i don't write them down, I'm too busy writing the story
Myself, I have a vague idea of what a story will be like. I don't always know how it will end and sometimes I know the ending but I'm not sure how I'll get there. I do like to have a vague outline in mind, but i don't write them down, I'm too busy writing the story
oggbashan
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Confidence
Outline versus first draft - both are good for different people.
Both can lead the story astray.
What you need is the confidence in your writing to go with the flow, let the story run where it wants to go irrespective of your outline, plot, draft so far or whatever structure you have considered.
Then look at what has been created.
It might be an unsalvageable pile of crap. It might have a gem buried in a mass of rubbish. It might be a rough diamond that just needs polishing OR it might need major surgery to become a real story.
The only time I have used detailed outlines has been for NaNoWriMo. I had outlines for 24 chapters of sub-plots with the starting and finishing chapters making a total of 26. The end result was 12 chapters, including 10 sub-plots. I could have continued to write the whole 26 chapters but the result would have been a weaker whole. I could have expanded from some of the sub-plots into full scale stories of their own. The result was my Flawed Red Silk set of stories that got the highest rating of my chaptered works.
It's a question of balance. If the outline is getting in the way of the writing - throw it away or modify it. If the draft is going too far away from your intentions - either pull it back in line or follow where it goes, then EDIT the result.
Good luck with the story.
Og
Outline versus first draft - both are good for different people.
Both can lead the story astray.
What you need is the confidence in your writing to go with the flow, let the story run where it wants to go irrespective of your outline, plot, draft so far or whatever structure you have considered.
Then look at what has been created.
It might be an unsalvageable pile of crap. It might have a gem buried in a mass of rubbish. It might be a rough diamond that just needs polishing OR it might need major surgery to become a real story.
The only time I have used detailed outlines has been for NaNoWriMo. I had outlines for 24 chapters of sub-plots with the starting and finishing chapters making a total of 26. The end result was 12 chapters, including 10 sub-plots. I could have continued to write the whole 26 chapters but the result would have been a weaker whole. I could have expanded from some of the sub-plots into full scale stories of their own. The result was my Flawed Red Silk set of stories that got the highest rating of my chaptered works.
It's a question of balance. If the outline is getting in the way of the writing - throw it away or modify it. If the draft is going too far away from your intentions - either pull it back in line or follow where it goes, then EDIT the result.
Good luck with the story.
Og
BlackShanglan
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Og's point is immensely well-thought and well-made. Indeed, I think that when outlines are used well, that's the whole point of them - that they let you get through some planning quickly enough that you don't feel it's impossible to later change it without sacrificing days of work. For some people that works; others have the courage and determination to sacrifice vast swathes of draft when it turns out to be the wrong thing. Whichever route one takes, I think Og's right - it's the willingness to admit that parts of the work to date are wrong, and the determination to re-write, re-plan, and revise that goes with it, that really make the difference.
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