Erotica as a legitimate literature genre

[kappisto]

Hi, well, uh, I'm a wannabe writer who hasn't actually written anything for Literotica (yet..)

See, I just like writing in general - I've written a few short stories and started a novel or two.. I hold no expectations of these things ever going anywhere, I just do it because I enjoy it.

But after reading some of the stuff here, I've noticed I somehow enjoyed the stories that seemed more realistic; instead of people sex-crazy for no reason having wild sex in all sorts of bizarre situations, the stuff that sounds like it could actually happen, where there seem to be motivations behind people's actions - this is the sort of stuff that tittilates me, for lack of a better word.

So, recently, when I've gone off to write a little something for myself - a way to record random fantasies or whatever, I tend to start with the people and then figure out the sex later. I don't want to sound arrogant, but I think some of the ideas floating around in my head (one character I have in mind in particular) are quite intriguing, and the stories to be stimulating (in multiple senses of the word)..

I'm rambling. And being grammatically inconsistent, which would annoy me if I were someone else reading this. So, what I wanted to ask:

What do you think about the place of erotica in fiction, in general? More and more I'm starting to think, the stories I want to write aren't just random "quick and easy tittilation without substance" - I want to write actual stories, where sex plays an important part in them. And the sex would be arousing, it would make one, well, horny. But it would have real meaning, there would be consequences, the sex would serve a purpose to the story.


So am I just living a pipe-dream? I know most of you would be very open-minded in what you read, and would be the last to condemn a work of general fiction that contained a lot of taboos (incest, for instance - not a personal fetish of mine, but the current story I'm working on features incest as a major plot point)

Perhaps some of you might know whether or not there are published novels/stories like this, where it's a free-for-all on taboos and such.

I dunno.

I'm slightly drunk and none of you know me at all. I just felt like saying something, even though I'm saying it badly.

 

[impressive]

What do you think about the place of erotica in fiction, in general? More and more I'm starting to think, the stories I want to write aren't just random "quick and easy tittilation without substance" - I want to write actual stories, where sex plays an important part in them. And the sex would be arousing, it would make one, well, horny. But it would have real meaning, there would be consequences, the sex would serve a purpose to the story.


So am I just living a pipe-dream? I know most of you would be very open-minded in what you read, and would be the last to condemn a work of general fiction that contained a lot of taboos (incest, for instance - not a personal fetish of mine, but the current story I'm working on features incest as a major plot point)

Perhaps some of you might know whether or not there are published novels/stories like this, where it's a free-for-all on taboos and such.

I dunno.

I'm slightly drunk and none of you know me at all. I just felt like saying something, even though I'm saying it badly.

Welcome to the AH.

There are plenty of works (here and elsewhere) which fit the picture you paint. If you want recommendations, just ask & I'm sure you'll get a BUNCH of links from the (ir)regulars here.

 

[kappisto]

Welcome to the AH.

There are plenty of works (here and elsewhere) which fit the picture you paint. If you want recommendations, just ask & I'm sure you'll get a BUNCH of links from the (ir)regulars here.

The reason I bring it up - and please do not take offense at this..

Well, the majority of erotic stories I've read - I mean, they've done the job, I'm not above admitting I love sex and all that - they just seem to be a little one-dimensional. There are never consequences, people just seem to be crazy nymphomaniacs who pay no heed to precautions, dangers, whatever. And it doesn't matter when you're in the mood for something other than a porn video or whatever, but I guess I'm pretentious (in the best possible sense) at heart. I just want more, because the more real it is, in the end the more turned on I find myself.

Out of curiosity, would you agree or disagree with my assumption that most stories are a bit unbelievable? I just think erotica in general has a lot of untapped potential; all the time I find myself being pulled out of a story by unrealistic portrayals of my fellow human beings. Due to a lack of mainstream acceptance most authors are amateur ones (in the sense that they make no money, I mean), and I don't know if that's always a good thing.

 

[impressive]

Out of curiosity, would you agree or disagree with my assumption that most stories are a bit unbelievable?

I've certainly come across quite a few Lit stories which are just wank material -- and some VERY unbelievable. You'll find quite a few exceptions to that stereotype amongst the authors here, though.

 

[Guest]

But after reading some of the stuff here, I've noticed I somehow enjoyed the stories that seemed more realistic; instead of people sex-crazy for no reason having wild sex in all sorts of bizarre situations, the stuff that sounds like it could actually happen, where there seem to be motivations behind people's actions - this is the sort of stuff that tittilates me, for lack of a better word.

So, recently, when I've gone off to write a little something for myself - a way to record random fantasies or whatever, I tend to start with the people and then figure out the sex later. I don't want to sound arrogant, but I think some of the ideas floating around in my head (one character I have in mind in particular) are quite intriguing, and the stories to be stimulating (in multiple senses of the word)..


What do you think about the place of erotica in fiction, in general? More and more I'm starting to think, the stories I want to write aren't just random "quick and easy tittilation without substance" - I want to write actual stories, where sex plays an important part in them. And the sex would be arousing, it would make one, well, horny. But it would have real meaning, there would be consequences, the sex would serve a purpose to the story....

So am I just living a pipe-dream? I know most of you would be very open-minded in what you read, and would be the last to condemn a work of general fiction that contained a lot of taboos (incest, for instance - not a personal fetish of mine, but the current story I'm working on features incest as a major plot point)...

Perhaps some of you might know whether or not there are published novels/stories like this, where it's a free-for-all on taboos and such.

Welcome to the AH.

As Imp suggested, you'll find a lot of stuff on Lit and elsewhere. In the world of published erotica, there aren't so many that are open to all "taboos" -- those tend to be niche markets. However, there is a lot of writing available where the erotic is combined with the qualities of literary fiction. I'd suggest checking my favorite source, the Best American Erotica books that come out every year. Not only are the stories drawn from a pretty wide net, the publications from which the stories are drawn are listed in the back, so you can hunt for more.

Your post did make me think about how erotica is shelved in stores. Stories that are ALL about sex, of course, should be to protect the underaged -- but so much fiction contains sex! Chick lit, mystery, paranormal romance (and romance novels are very much becoming soft core erotica - new lines are now on shelves with that in mind). There have always been such books (although the lines that must be crossed to move from some other genre of fiction to porn keeps shifting). Many authors write about sex as they write about other aspects of life. And they write about it with the same feeling and detail.

Perhaps it all works out to magical ratios

 

[cheerful_deviant]

Erotica, like all forms of literature, has many facets. Because of the nature of erotica and the 'quick and dirty' image, alot of it is biased towards the short and unbelievable. Probablly because most of erotica is basically fantasy. Sure there are some 'This is a true story..." but the large majority isn't. This it usually the nature of fantasies to be quick. Everyone has a fantasy but how in depth are they really? Sure you dream about lounging on the beach in Key West after winning the Lottery. But in your fantasy do you plan out what brand of sunscreen you use on the beach? No. Because it's not condusive to your fantasy. It doesn't add anything to the enjoyment. The same with erotica. If all you want is a quick wank, then characters dont need personality. He just needs a 16" shwaz, she needs beachball mams that bounce when she screams "I'mmmmmmm cummmmmmiiiiiinnnnnnngggg."

That's not to say that there aren't works of erotica that are not well concieved works of fiction. There are many writers here who have several works that are completly fleshed out stories with well concieved plots and developed characters. The works or Rgrham666 come to mind. Excellent stories with plot and deep characters, especially his later works.

It's just that by it's nature, people who wouldn't normally write tend to try their hand at erotica as a kinky turn on. Hence the somewhat eratic and dismal quality of many postings.

JMHO

 

[impressive]

It's just that by it's nature, people who wouldn't normally write tend to try their hand at erotica as a kinky turn on. Hence the somewhat eratic and dismal quality of many postings.

JMHO

Yuppers. (The same could probably be said of poetry ... sans "kinky turn on" *grin*)

 

[Guest]

Yuppers. (The same could probably be said of poetry ... sans "kinky turn on" *grin*)

I blame the commonality of bad poetry on greeting cards and commercial jingles. I don't trust anyone who writes poetry who can't pull up a few favorite poems from published and well known poets.

 

[Weird Harold]

Out of curiosity, would you agree or disagree with my assumption that most stories are a bit unbelievable? I just think erotica in general has a lot of untapped potential; all the time I find myself being pulled out of a story by unrealistic portrayals of my fellow human beings. Due to a lack of mainstream acceptance most authors are amateur ones (in the sense that they make no money, I mean), and I don't know if that's always a good thing.

Welcome to Literotica; a site founded to provide a venue for the kind of Literate Erotica you're looking for. You won't always find it because the majority of online fiction is indeed written by amateurs but at least Literotica has some editorial standards and won't accept just any drivel for posting.

However, "Erotica" is a legitimate genre of literature -- "Romance" novels are the single biggest selling genre in mainstream fiction and the dividing line between "Romance" and "Erotica" is almost non-existent, IMHO. Even such staunch bastions of conservatism and prudery as the Fantasy and Science Fiction genres in the last 20-25 years tend to have at least one semi-explicit love scene.

The thing is that good writing -- plot, description, characterization, and all of the other things that make the difference between drivel and literature -- is independent of genre. "Stroke Stories" and pornographic vignettes are often written by people who don't understand that "It's just porn" is no excuse for ignoring spelling, grammar and poper use of the language to communicate.

 

[cheerful_deviant]

I blame the commonality of bad poetry on greeting cards and commercial jingles. I don't trust anyone who writes poetry who can't pull up a few favorite poems from published and well known poets.

The key reason I don't write poetry. I'm scared for life by Hallmark.

 

[impressive]

The key reason I don't write poetry. I'm scared for life by Hallmark.

I've *blush* written greeting card poetry. It has its place ... and if I don't do it, someone else will.

Plus, the money's still green.

 

[Guest]

I've *blush* written greeting card poetry. It has its place ... and if I don't do it, someone else will.

Plus, the money's still green.

There's nothing wrong with writing greeting cards, or with commercial writing.

Do you go around proclaiming it "art"? Do you get upset when others don't read it or praise it?

Ah don' thin' soh.....

 

[impressive]

Do you get upset when others don't read it or praise it?

Or discuss its wonderfulness at length on message boards ...

 

[Guest]

Or discuss its wonderfulness at length on message boards ...

There are so many reasons I smit you. This is but one of them.

Poetry, like any other genre, requires study and reading to have some idea how to do it. People aren't as exposed to poetry as was once common. People don't memorize poems anymore to recite as entertainment (now it's more like a trick if someone remembers the words of a poem).

I haven't seen much to contradict the idea that you need to read what you want to write. You need to read it in as many variations as you can get. You need to read it for pleasure as well as to study. Musicians listen to music as well as write it and perform it. Artists copy the works of master artists as well as fill sketch books with stuff they will never use. They spend hours staring at art. Dancers watch dance, read about dance, practice repetitious moves, before they choreograph or perform.

 

[Guest]

wank material

That is such a wonderful expression. Much better than stroke stories...

 

[cheerful_deviant]

now it's more like a trick if someone remembers the words of a poem...

There once was a girl from Nanutcket...



Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Guest]

There once was a girl from Nanutcket...



Sorry, couldn't resist.

S'ok, ducky darling. You are generally prone to temptation, which is why we all lurve you so.

 

[impressive]

Poetry, like any other genre, requires study and reading to have some idea how to do it. People aren't as exposed to poetry as was once common. People don't memorize poems anymore to recite as entertainment (now it's more like a trick if someone remembers the words of a poem).

I haven't seen much to contradict the idea that you need to read what you want to write. You need to read it in as many variations as you can get. You need to read it for pleasure as well as to study. Musicians listen to music as well as write it and perform it. Artists copy the works of master artists as well as fill sketch books with stuff they will never use. They spend hours staring at art. Dancers watch dance, read about dance, practice repetitious moves, before they choreograph or perform.

Hmm, not sure I totally agree. I think it's possible to do something well without studying others who've done it well. (Take sex, for example.) However, there is certainly much to be learned from such study -- whether it's to shed light on dos or don'ts in your own efforts.

 

[Guest]

Hmm, not sure I totally agree. I think it's possible to do something well without studying others who've done it well. (Take sex, for example.) However, there is certainly much to be learned from such study -- whether it's to shed light on dos or don'ts in your own efforts.

Ya know, the whole idea that one can do sex well without any input from the outside world...without any "study" or "practice" is completely outside my experience. I've never met such a genius and I certainly wasn't one

 

[impressive]

Ya know, the whole idea that one can do sex well without any input from the outside world...without any "study" or "practice" is completely outside my experience. I've never met such a genius and I certainly wasn't one

So, you don't believe in the concept of innate talent? (Not being smug. I'm serious -- and about more than just sex.)

 

[rgraham666]

Hi, well, uh, I'm a wannabe writer who hasn't actually written anything for Literotica (yet..)

See, I just like writing in general - I've written a few short stories and started a novel or two.. I hold no expectations of these things ever going anywhere, I just do it because I enjoy it.

But after reading some of the stuff here, I've noticed I somehow enjoyed the stories that seemed more realistic; instead of people sex-crazy for no reason having wild sex in all sorts of bizarre situations, the stuff that sounds like it could actually happen, where there seem to be motivations behind people's actions - this is the sort of stuff that tittilates me, for lack of a better word.

So, recently, when I've gone off to write a little something for myself - a way to record random fantasies or whatever, I tend to start with the people and then figure out the sex later. I don't want to sound arrogant, but I think some of the ideas floating around in my head (one character I have in mind in particular) are quite intriguing, and the stories to be stimulating (in multiple senses of the word)..

I'm rambling. And being grammatically inconsistent, which would annoy me if I were someone else reading this. So, what I wanted to ask:

What do you think about the place of erotica in fiction, in general? More and more I'm starting to think, the stories I want to write aren't just random "quick and easy tittilation without substance" - I want to write actual stories, where sex plays an important part in them. And the sex would be arousing, it would make one, well, horny. But it would have real meaning, there would be consequences, the sex would serve a purpose to the story.


So am I just living a pipe-dream? I know most of you would be very open-minded in what you read, and would be the last to condemn a work of general fiction that contained a lot of taboos (incest, for instance - not a personal fetish of mine, but the current story I'm working on features incest as a major plot point)

Perhaps some of you might know whether or not there are published novels/stories like this, where it's a free-for-all on taboos and such.

I dunno.

I'm slightly drunk and none of you know me at all. I just felt like saying something, even though I'm saying it badly.

Welcome to the AH, kappisto. I hope you stay. It sounds like you have a lot to contribute.

For myself a story is a story. What makes for a good story? Emotion, it pulls the reader in and makes them suspend disbelief. What causes emotion? Travails, trouble and triumph. Who do these things occur to? The characters. Good characters allow the reader to identify or dislike them. How do you communicate all of the ingredients? With good language. Language that tells the reader who the characters are, what they feel, what actions they take.

This doesn't change no matter what genre you write in.

Oh, and thanks for the plug, CD.

My recommendation of a good writer of erotica, who writes using all the ingredients I listed above, has to be Colleen.

 

[gauchecritic]

So, you don't believe in the concept of innate talent? (Not being smug. I'm serious -- and about more than just sex.)

Really? I'm finding this difficult to imagine. I'm not saying people don't have talent but I would question the usefulness of talent without application.

You seem to be saying that without any prior knowledge whatsoever someone with the appropriate talent can come to it cold and be as good as if not better than those that have prior knowledge.

I've read this wrong I'm sure.

 

[Recidiva]

I admit it. My tongue-crossed lovers don't use condoms. I don't make them go to the bathroom in detail either.

I figured there's some stuff that doesn't need to be described unless it's absolutely key to the story.

I'm romantic, so there.

 

[impressive]

You seem to be saying that without any prior knowledge whatsoever someone with the appropriate talent can come to it cold and be as good as if not better than those that have prior knowledge.

No, love. It's the "as good as if not better" part that you're extrapolating. However, I suppose I do believe that some possess a natural aptitute that would make even their nascent efforts "better" than others who'd spent a great deal of time in study. *shrug*

ALL can benefit from study -- regardless of talent.

 

[Guest]

So, you don't believe in the concept of innate talent? (Not being smug. I'm serious -- and about more than just sex.)

Of course I beleive there are innate talents. I don't believe they stand alone, or that they show up fully developed all by themselves.

Mozart comes to mind. He was doing incredible things at a very early age -- I think we could safely claim he was an innate musical talent. However, his father was also a musician. He had rigorous musical training from an extremely early age. Would Mozart have been the musical genius we know recognize just on talent alone? If he'd been born to, say, a dairy farmer, would his talents have developed so early or at all?

By "study" I don't mean going to school or taking lessons exclusively. We study when we observe, when we listen, when we think and try to understand something. When we give something attention in order to improve our ability to do it, we are studying it.

I'll go along with the idea that sex for procreation and masturbation are usually "self discovery" items -- but I maintain that exeptional lovers come about as a matter of study. I'm not talking "technique" so much as the thousands of other details that make one thing better than another.

This came up on another thread a few months ago. I'm of the opinion that study without talent, or talent without study, are neither really strong enough. Having the talent to be a great writer is useless if one never learns to write.