Erotica and sad subjects

[CharleyH]

It has been on my mind since a post or several I made, but can the erotic and porn exist with a sickness or death plot thrust or ending?

I realize they get low balled in the ratings, but does sex not exist in RL without some sadness, trial or tribulation? Does it make the sex any less erotic if a character dies in the end? Is all erotic, especially (not porn which has cum as the thrust) supposed to have a happy ending?

What are your experiences with writing? Is every story with a plot a happy fairy tale (though to qualify ...original fairy tales were never with happy endings)? Why or why not?

 

[TxRad]

Charleyh....

Check out my Marla Sue story... she dies in the end ... the voting has been good as well as the comments...

The fact that it's mostly a true story probably helps....

 

[Quiet_Cool]

How would you define erotica? I'm working on one now, though I'm not certain if it will ever be posted here, specifically, where everyone dies but one character (everyone being not only more than ten people, but inlcuding a young girl--maybe nine or ten, though she clearly isn't involved in anything sexual), and the female lead (or as close as one gets to being the female lead), actually cries during the sex scene, which will most likely consume less than 200 words of what I'm guessing will be over 14,000.

It's horror, so it might not be something you consider realistic regardless, but that's still a lot of death...

In all honesty, if a story isn't just simple stroke, then it almost has to have some sort of sadness, or at least negativity, in order to seem somewhat real. Just my viewpoint. I tend to shy away from happy endings simply because I think they're unreal, and generally dishonest.

Q_C

 

[OhMissScarlett]

You know, I think if your story is good enough, interesting enough, that you can make anything work. Or at least that's what I'm hoping, since one story I'm working on starts out with my main character's friend having cancer. I'm also working on another story which begins with a town being wiped out by plague.

Personally, I like a little drama with my sex stories. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with guilt-free, beer-bonging, fraternity-humping porn at all. I'm just saying I like my characters to have to work for it a little. Will their love survive the odds? Will they face their fears to be together? Will she give him butt sex to show her love? Now, that's the stuff.

 

[scheherazade_79]

Dylan Thomas once said that there are only two things worth writing about - sex and death.

I ended "The Things Inside Our Hearts" with hope from tragedy, and on the whole I'm not too great with happy endings in my stories. Don't know why. Didn't even realise it until Mat pointed it out.

 

[CharleyH]

Charleyh....

Check out my Marla Sue story... she dies in the end ... the voting has been good as well as the comments...

The fact that it's mostly a true story probably helps....

Thanks TX. I have three online, and the PMs have been awesome, with a few bombs, and I don't mind.. I am asking as a discussion more than anything. So what's wrong with writing sex and sickness or death et al?

Are sex and death so opposite? The french describe the female orgasm as the little death.

Just a subject.

 

[CharleyH]

How would you define erotica? I'm working on one now, though I'm not certain if it will ever be posted here, specifically, where everyone dies but one character (everyone being not only more than ten people, but including a young girl--maybe nine or ten, though she clearly isn't involved in anything sexual), and the female lead (or as close as one gets to being the female lead), actually cries during the sex scene, which will most likely consume less than 200 words of what I'm guessing will be over 14,000.

It's horror, so it might not be something you consider realistic regardless, but that's still a lot of death...

In all honesty, if a story isn't just simple stroke, then it almost has to have some sort of sadness, or at least negativity, in order to seem somewhat real. Just my viewpoint. I tend to shy away from happy endings simply because I think they're unreal, and generally dishonest.

Q_C

I, personally define the erotic as a narrative without a sole purpose (like porn) of getting a reader off. So any genre. Realism and formalism is all kind of mute really. I can see how a story in the horror niche might be more conducive to accepting death , than perhaps in a loving wives category.

Why do you say - if you don't mind the ask - that "if a story isn't just simple stroke, then it almost has to have some sort of sadness, or at least negativity, in order to seem somewhat real." It's an interesting statement.

 

[CharleyH]

You know, I think if your story is good enough, interesting enough, that you can make anything work. Or at least that's what I'm hoping, since one story I'm working on starts out with my main character's friend having cancer. I'm also working on another story which begins with a town being wiped out by plague.

Personally, I like a little drama with my sex stories. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with guilt-free, beer-bonging, fraternity-humping porn at all. I'm just saying I like my characters to have to work for it a little. Will their love survive the odds? Will they face their fears to be together? Will she give him butt sex to show her love? Now, that's the stuff.

Have you read oher stories regarding the same subject. Do you feel that the topic might be touchy? Are you writing it by introducing the topic, or leaving it until the end?

 

[carsonshepherd]

hmmm. my highest rated story (my novella) deals with an abuse victim.... strong subject matter but people seem to really like it. Fiction finds truths that face us all, and sex and death are the most universal. When we read, we're looking for characters we can relate to, and care about their struggles and redemption. Redemption is what everyone looks for and hopes for, no? erotica is no different.

 

[CharleyH]

Dylan Thomas once said that there are only two things worth writing about - sex and death.

I ended "The Things Inside Our Hearts" with hope from tragedy, and on the whole I'm not too great with happy endings in my stories. Don't know why. Didn't even realise it until Mat pointed it out.

Do you question your writing? Wonder why? Are you happier leaving the end sad than forcing happiness on it? What has been the response? What is your reaction upon having heard this from Mat, or any reader?

 

[CharleyH]

hmmm. my highest rated story (my novella) deals with an abuse victim.... strong subject matter but people seem to really like it. Fiction finds truths that face us all, and sex and death are the most universal. When we read, we're looking for characters we can relate to, and care about their struggles and redemption. Redemption is what everyone looks for and hopes for, no? erotica is no different.

I have received the BEST PMs from gay guys on a story I just wrote. Perhaps they are more in tune with the realities of both joie de vivre and death? Would you say the same (I know you are hung over LOL ) for a 'porn' story?

 

[TxRad]

Thanks TX. I have three online, and the PMs have been awesome, with a few bombs, and I don't mind.. I am asking as a discussion more than anything. So what's wrong with writing sex and sickness or death et al?

Are sex and death so opposite? The french describe the female orgasm as the little death.

Just a subject.

Ok, then I'll regroup...

Conflict is the name of the game and what is more of a conflict than sickness (the possibility of death) or death itself....

As for happy endings.... I find that most of my stories end on a happy note but I leave whether or no it is a happy ending to the readers....

In one story that I particularly like, the couple has problems with the wife getting pregnant, then she does, then she loses the baby... then the mental problems on both sides of the relationship. Its sad yes but is realistic.. then the road trip which changes everything.... A friend in England related a fantasy about having sex draped across the headlight of a car in the middle of the road during a rain storm... that ended up being the middle of the story... they had a baby because of this... end of story...

My friend got to read the story before I posted it anywhere... she yelled at me for making her cry, making her horny, and then making her cry again.... "sigh" there is no pleasing some people.... but i took that as a great compliment as i drew emotion from her...

Long winded but i hope that has an answer or two in it....

 

[OhMissScarlett]

Have you read oher stories regarding the same subject. Do you feel that the topic might be touchy? Are you writing it by introducing the topic, or leaving it until the end?

I haven't read other stories on Lit regarding the same subject. In both stories, the topics will be almost immediately introduced, so it's not going to be a situation where everyone suddenly drops dead at the end. As for it being touchy, I have no idea. Really, I don't care what people think. In life, people are often brought closer together by death. I'm trying harder these days to tell the story that needs to be told, not the story that everyone wants to hear.

 

[CharleyH]

I haven't read other stories on Lit regarding the same subject. In both stories, the topics will be almost immediately introduced, so it's not going to be a situation where everyone suddenly drops dead at the end. As for it being touchy, I have no idea. Really, I don't care what people think. In life, people are often brought closer together by death. I'm trying harder these days to tell the story that needs to be told, not the story that everyone wants to hear.

Thanks, beautiful.

 

[CharleyH]

Ok, then I'll regroup...

Conflict is the name of the game and what is more of a conflict than sickness (the possibility of death) or death itself....

As for happy endings.... I find that most of my stories end on a happy note but I leave whether or no it is a happy ending to the readers....

In one story that I particularly like, the couple has problems with the wife getting pregnant, then she does, then she loses the baby... then the mental problems on both sides of the relationship. Its sad yes but is realistic.. then the road trip which changes everything.... A friend in England related a fantasy about having sex draped across the headlight of a car in the middle of the road during a rain storm... that ended up being the middle of the story... they had a baby because of this... end of story...

My friend got to read the story before I posted it anywhere... she yelled at me for making her cry, making her horny, and then making her cry again.... "sigh" there is no pleasing some people.... but i took that as a great compliment as i drew emotion from her...

Long winded but i hope that has an answer or two in it....

Ah, all I want is YOUR experiences in writing about such a topic as death or sickness. You write other stories - I know ... how does this one that you recount differ fro others? How does your opinion compare to feedback opinions? In a maybe dichotimic way, Does this story meet readers expectations? Why - why not? Or have they enjoyed others more?

 

[Quiet_Cool]

I, personally define the erotic as a narrative without a sole purpose (like porn) of getting a reader off. So any genre. Realism and formalism is all kind of mute really. I can see how a story in the horror niche might be more conducive to accepting death , than perhaps in a loving wives category.

Why do you say - if you don't mind the ask - that "if a story isn't just simple stroke, then it almost has to have some sort of sadness, or at least negativity, in order to seem somewhat real." It's an interesting statement.

That's basically the viewpoint I had on erotica. Porn would be the stroke (I fucked my secretary behind my wife's back and now I'm a stud type story), with the excessive guiltless happy ending more often than not, but erotica having at least a hint of erotic content, while focusing on something more, and building some level of characterization along the way.

What I meant when I say that, is that people in general, while not always appearing that way to others, have more than one dimension. there's guilt, sadness, anger, all these negative, non-shallow emotions that lie beneath the surface. I feel that good fiction breaks that surface, and brings those feelings to the readers attention, at least good characterization does, and that tends to be the kind of fictin I enjoy. Strong characters with at least fairly believable motives.

Those things make the story and characters real.

Hopefully, that's more clear.

Nice thread, Charley, BTW.

Q_C

 

[CharleyH]

That's basically the viewpoint I had on erotica. Porn would be the stroke (I fucked my secretary behind my wife's back and now I'm a stud type story), with the excessive guiltless happy ending more often than not, but erotica having at least a hint of erotic content, while focusing on something more, and building some level of characterization along the way.

What I meant when I say that, is that people in general, while not always appearing that way to others, have more than one dimension. there's guilt, sadness, anger, all these negative, non-shallow emotions that lie beneath the surface. I feel that good fiction breaks that surface, and brings those feelings to the readers attention, at least good characterization does, and that tends to be the kind of fiction I enjoy. Strong characters with at least fairly believable motives.

Those things make the story and characters real.

Hopefully, that's more clear.

Nice thread, Charley, BTW.

Q_C

Thank for your POV, QC. It has always been clear - I only ask questions to bring out more questions. I hope you post your own, or more of your iintriguing opinion . I hope others do, also.

This is not my thread.

I consider any post/thread I do participate in - a thought, and when I do post a thread, I hope others bring thoughts to make it "their own thread". (not that I am into Marx - though he had a good idea) yet ...new or old, know or not know, ideas and opinions and thoughts and feelings? All fascinate me ... always. It is the spice that sweetens life.

Thank you for your add.

 

[logophile]

My story "Caressing the Veil" is very very very sad. And it got great ratings. It's one of my favorites, actually. (link in sig, of course)

 

[gauchecritic]

It seems to me that when writing stroke there are only so many facets that are useful in order to "get to know" the characters.

If you introduce death (or debility, handicap, psychology etc) then the characterisations are going to be that much deeper so that (assuming these aren't simply fillers) the story becomes not about sex but about things that affect sex. To put it another way the story becomes about people rather than characters.

Interestingly I was always under the impression that 'petite mort' referred to male orgasm.

Inevitably, I surmise, this could be one of the reasons so many stroke stories end at the orgasm, because everything immediately afterwards is tinged with sadness.

 

[CharleyH]

It seems to me that when writing stroke there are only so many facets that are useful in order to "get to know" the characters.

If you introduce death (or debility, handicap, psychology etc) then the characterisations are going to be that much deeper so that (assuming these aren't simply fillers) the story becomes not about sex but about things that affect sex. To put it another way the story becomes about people rather than characters.

Interestingly I was always under the impression that 'petite mort' referred to male orgasm.

Inevitably, I surmise, this could be one of the reasons so many stroke stories end at the orgasm, because everything immediately afterwards is tinged with sadness.

Is not erotica about people, and porn about stroke?

Hm petit mort has always meant "Little death" to refer to the female orgasm, since I always assumed much of mens orgasm is about EXPLOSIONS.

Imagine the reality? "it was barely felt" or "did it even happen?"

 

[rgraham666]

I suspect any problem people have with debility or death in our stories is simply a reflection of one of the major North American weaknesses; that death isn't a part of our lives anymore. Once, we lived with it, as most people do. Now, even our loved ones die out of sight and mind.

I no longer regard what I do as writing erotica or stroke, it's simply writing.

But going back over my work, in my longer pieces illness, and in one case, near death in a coma, plays a major role. As gauche pointed out it made the characters in them more complete.

I haven't had a character die yet. Although I have two in the works where there is going to be a central character's death. I don't care if it gets the stories bombed. In one, the character surviving would be unrealistic. In the other, it's going to bring, I hope, a special poignancy to the story.

My $0.02.

 

[elsol]

My own:

http://english.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=186867

-----

Happy endings definitely do 'better'... but the ones with truth in them mean more to the people who read them.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Penelope Street]

What are your experiences with writing? Is every story with a plot a happy fairy tale (though to qualify ...original fairy tales were never with happy endings)? Why or why not?

Color me guilty if you want, but I love happy endings and thusfar I have not posted a story with a sad conclusion.

... can the erotic and porn exist with a sickness or death plot thrust or ending?

Sure. All good erotic stories, imo, are about more than just sex and that can include unpleasant elements. I have a few in my pending folder that aren't so tidy, but they are still closer to bittersweet than just plain bitter.

Take Care,
Penny

 

[SophiaY]

(Umm…. thinking slowly on this)

Erotic and tragic can work well in a story – “Juliet and her Romeo” for example (even as gender-bent as I am, the heat that flows off those two is quite palpable).

But, I think, most readers don’t want the catharsis of tragedy. For whatever reason, we’re not in that kind of mood culturally.

Somewhat related: I was talking with someone about how there hasn’t been a lesbian femme fatale story (none that I know of anyway); one where the heroine is irresistibly attractive, insatiable, and leads her lovers into danger or disaster, finally dying (most of the time) herself.

I can think of a lot of reasons why that kind of story might not be written – but the bad ending aspect of it, either for her or for her lover(s) may be the main one.


The Femme Fatale

http://www.moviestar-photos.com/graphics/169/169321.jpg

 

[Sabledrake]

My story "A Cat of Nightblack Hue" opens with the protagonist planning his suicide. It was a lonely, gloomy little tale. The few feedbacks I got informed me that most readers were ready to back-click at that point but they forged on regardless.

I presume by the lack of votes that the rest of them DID back-click

Just wasn't what folks were looking for, I guess, especially in a Halloween contest story.

-- Sabledrake