Erotic Writings...masterpiece or 'cut to the chase'?

[JerseyBoy]

Since joining Lit over a year ago I've churned out eight stories, mostly written at my leaisure. An idea pops in my head and I need to write it to get it out. When writing though I get caught in the dilemna of wanting to cut to the chase to appease the readers...and myself sometimes. I could easily make my stories three times as long but are readers here looking that? I dont remember any XXX movies with character development.

On here I see many posts about perfect grammer, tenses, past participles or whatever. OMG I could never submit to be scutinized like that, ack! I look for feedback of just pure enjoyment of a story with a new twist.

As authors, are you looking to become published? Does it matter if a reader back buttons because there is no sex in the first six paragraphs? I saw in the feedback section someone had written they couldnt read past the first two paragraphs because of the terrible tense changes. Even in all the examples sited I could barely see a problem.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that you take such pride in your work...as I do.

I guess I'm just trying to find the general ambitions of the writers here. Just what do you think of the readers here and what they want?

-WS

 

[Ray Dario]

My point of view

You have raised a lot of really good questions, but there aren't many easy answers for them.

I am actively working to improve my writing, in hopes of someday becoming a famous Science Fiction writer. To date the only things that I have written that have been published for money are Women's Devotionals.

Don't laugh, it actually pays pretty good and it's very easy to do.

As far as the readers here on Lit. They are many and varied and if you managed to get more than a handful to agree on more than one thing, it would be a miricle rivaling the parting of the Red Sea.

Some do like hot and randy sex right up front, others prefer to be led into the hot and randy sex, some just want a really good story that chills their intellect and maybe fires up their libido too.

As you write here, you will build a following. These people will expect you to give them what you gave them before and they may get angry at you if you change how you write.

My recommendation is to write the story for yourself. You will probably be surprised to find how many people want just that kind of story. Be prepared to be hit by a few morons sending stupid, meaningless, hateful feedbacks. Ignore them as much as you can.

If you want to improve as a writer, you have come to a wonderful place. Pay attention to what people like KillerMuffin and Weird Harold say. Go read the feedback threads and try to apply what they say to your own writing.

If all you want to do is write, then write what you want, the way you want it written. Chances are there are a bunch of readers out there right now, looking for stories just like that.

Good luck
Ray

 

[SexyChele]

I write to please myself. I'm flattered when others read what I've written and like it. But many of my stories have never made it to Lit - they are in my "private collection, or on my web page. I like to write, and Literotica has given me a new type of genre to write in.

The first couple of stories that I wrote for Lit, I was little concerned with sentence structure, character development, or even a plot. I had the reader in mind who simply wanted to "get off". Yes, I sent those stories to editors and made some minor tweaks. Now, however, I take a harder look at what I write here. I subscribe to the idea that "if it's worth doing, it's worth doing well." I don't expect everything I write to become a "masterpiece". I don't expect everything I write to become popular. But I am committed to doing the best I can. And that is as a total - tense, grammar, spelling, content.

I know that some readers don't sit down and tear apart a story that way, yes. I have also seen stories that are very popular that filled with errors. Yet, I have had readers tell me there is something about my stories that grab them, and they don't know what it is. I suspect I know, but I never let on to them.

Writing should be fun. As long as you are enjoying what you are doing, then you are doing it right!

 

[Quint]

Many of the people you will see on the "Author's Hangout" are the more serious type of writer, the ones who may not have experience but certainly have passion.

I agree with the above two posts; as my profile states, I write primarily to please myself. I really enjoy the erotic part of the story, when it's done well, but a good plot will keep me hooked for many more chapters. I'm with Chele on the technical details; a good story will lose points because I lose interest after so many missing commas. I suppose I'm a snob, but I really don't care.

Would I prefer to read several pages of plot per relatively small sex scene? WhisperSecret's novella "Hostile Takeover" is one of my favorites, although after the first few chapters the sex is relatively unimportant. Granted, as you can tell I'm hardly the typical reader. However, I give quality feedback and critique, which in my mind is worth much more than 10 "I came 5 times while reading this. U rule!"

Just decide who you want your audience to be. I think of people like myself when I write, and I shrug off the negative feedback.

 

[Axeltheswede]

masterpiece, or cut to the chase

Why not a masterpiece that also cuts to the chase?

There is no "carved in granite" rule about a story has to be told in a linear time line. Experiment. Try flashbacks, dialogue descriptions, and any other device you can think of. We have a terrific, experimental forum here. Use the flexibility to your advantage.

One other consideration is category. Read the top stories in a variety of categories. You will see the trends. In some you will see extensive character development. Others get down and dirty in the first few graphs. I suppose the ultimate challenge would be to see if you can do something contrary to the trend and still succeed.

Maybe most important of all - have fun.

And personally, I enjoy those feedbacks like "Smokin' stuff, had to change my shorts twice".

 

[KillerMuffin]

Readers are easy, they all want a two things in every story they read.

They want to get aroused/off to it.
They want to enjoy it.

You can't control very much of what a reader will do with your story, but you can even the odds by showing that you respect them with the proper mechanics.

Good grammar, good spelling, and good punctuation is nothing more than showing your reader that you respect them enough to make sure the read is as easy as possible. Some people call flaunting the conventional rules in favor of a non-conformists creative drive making works of art. That's a load of horsehockey. You cannot transcend that which you do not know.

Paying attention to the various things that makes a story a better read-- ie character development, plot development, suspension of disbelief, tense, POV, and word choice-- will increase the average reader's enjoyment factor.

Consider those self-same porno flicks that people fork out cash to see. The ones where a plot change means a change from the bedroom to the kitchen. Character development refers to boob size. Those. You can get off to those, but aside for a cum, do you enjoy the movie? Probably not. The lack of anything to it but sex makes it difficult to actually enjoy the movie.

Consider the last really good movie that you saw with a love scene. If they had added a good size chunk of pornographic filming, would you have gotten off and enjoyed the movie?

Readers don't particularly care if it's good enough to get published, the authors are concerned about that. The readers do care if the story is 1) good enough to get off to and 2) something they can enjoy.

 

[Monazwx]

WS, amazing post

So many hard-hitting questions! I'll try to answer as best I can.

Appeasing the readers should be the least of your worries. Be true to yourself and the story you create, because, in the end, it's bound to appeal to someone.

However, the story will be scrutinized. It's all apart of putting a story out there for people to read. Don't be bummed. People who can't get through a long read for various reasons are not who you appeal to, that's all. Personally, if plausible, I like to put a few 'tease' moments in the story, to lead the reader on. But only if it's realistically possible.

XXX movies are not designed to have major character development or even much of a plot, but remember, Literotica is about erotic literature. Alot of people ignore the literature part. Explore your characters in depth. If you have a good plot, develop it to the fullest I say.

Some writers want to be published, some write for other reasons; but everyone will agree that they want to share their ideas and creativity with others. Can't generalize the readers, but with good character and plot development, you're sure to get a fan base.

And Ray, what are Women's Devotionals? (yes, I just landed here from another planet).

 

[Zamdrist]

Yet, I have had readers tell me there is something about my stories that grab them, and they don't know what it is. I suspect I know, but I never let on to them.

This made me smile and I had to reply. Mysterious

 

[Ray Dario]

Re: WS, amazing post

And Ray, what are Women's Devotionals? (yes, I just landed here from another planet).

Hmm, not surprising some people on Lit might not know this. Go to any religeous bookstore and there will be "Women's Devotionals" as well as "Men's Devotionals". There are lots of different styles but for the publisher I worked for, all I did was take a scripture from the bible, write a sappy little story about how it affected someone's life and then put this meaningful little tag line down below it. Then the woman is supposed to meditate and pray about it until she reaches enlightenment or something I guess and write down her feelings.

We wrote one for each day of the year and I got paid $1,800.00 for one year's worth. It usually only took about two weeks to pump out a book. I did four devotionals for them.

The down side is you don't get any credit and the publisher owns the copyright.

Ray

 

[Monazwx]

Thanks for answering my question Ray, 'cause I really didn't know what they were. $1800 for two weeks worth, not a bad payday.

It sucks about the copyright though.

 

[Reshbod]

An idea pops in my head and I need to write it to get it out. When writing though I get caught in the dilemna of wanting to cut to the chase to appease the readers...and myself sometimes. I could easily make my stories three times as long but are readers here looking that? I dont remember any XXX movies with character development.I have just started writing ideas that I have had for years and hopefully will someday write the great american novel. I prefer to use as much plot development as I feel the story needs. If others are not interested there are plenty more stories out there.


On here I see many posts about perfect grammer, tenses, past participles or whatever. OMG I could never submit to be scutinized like that, ack! I look for feedback of just pure enjoyment of a story with a new twist.
I am no grammar cop, but I have bought a couple of basic grammar books and have been going over the basics.


As authors, are you looking to become published? Does it matter if a reader back buttons because there is no sex in the first six paragraphs? I saw in the feedback section someone had written they couldnt read past the first two paragraphs because of the terrible tense changes. Even in all the examples sited I could barely see a problem. Nope, If I write something it is more for me than anyone else. If somebody likes it, great, if not, oh well, you can't please everyone.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that you take such pride in your work...as I do.

I guess I'm just trying to find the general ambitions of the writers here. Just what do you think of the readers here and what they want?

-WS

My main goal currently is to improve my storytelling ability. So far I have several stories going and as soon as I myself am satisfied with it, I will be ready to post and hopefully get some helpful comments. The readers here who have signed up and post on these boards strike me as a diverse and well-rounded group. I would like to get their opinions. The ones who do not sign up and only criticise and offer no helpful comments, I am not concerned with. (I do not mean to imply all "unregistered" users are like this, this is the impression I have from other posts I have read)

 

[Weird Harold]

Since joining Lit over a year ago I've churned out eight stories, mostly written at my leaisure. An idea pops in my head and I need to write it to get it out. When writing though I get caught in the dilemna of wanting to cut to the chase to appease the readers...and myself sometimes. I could easily make my stories three times as long but are readers here looking that? I dont remember any XXX movies with character development.

On here I see many posts about perfect grammer, tenses, past participles or whatever. OMG I could never submit to be scutinized like that, ack! I look for feedback of just pure enjoyment of a story with a new twist.

Like you, I write to get ideas out of my head. I don't really worry about what the reader wants or likes because I'm writing for ME.

However, I do have enough go to want people to like what I write. The very first step in readers liking my work is to read it -- if they can't read it, then I'm wasting my time and theirs -- hence the concern for the technical details of grammar, punctuation and spelling.

The technical details don't have to be perfect, but they do need to be good enough that the reader can concentrate on the story insted of spending all of their effort in deciphering what I meant to write.

There are a lot of technical details that aren't readily apparent to the average reader to be pointed out as something wrong with your story but still act on the subconsious enjoyment of the story -- passive voice, run-on sentences, misused words (spelling), etc. Those kinds of details should be important if you're writing to get your stories read and appreciated OR if you have any pride in your work.

There is no such thing as "just a porn story," Whether you write porn vignettes or novel length masterpieces, you are, first and foremost, writing a story that reflects on how people perceive your literacy. You owe it to yourself to tell the BEST story you are capable of.

 

[JerseyBoy]

Thanks for the thoughts....

Everyone here has great points...and I think finding your own audience is very important and by the feedback Ive received I think I found my following.

You know what would be a great idea? An area within your profile or whatever that has your own personal bulletin board. I think that would be a great way to share thoughts and ideas with 'your' readers.

Thanks all for your time!
-WS

p.s. and Ray! please change that picture of yours, its freakin me out man!

 

[TheEarl]

I tend to write for myself usually and it comes out however I'm feeling. I've only written three stories, so I can't claim to have a following yet, but it's interesting to note that the two best ones (Seducing Dawn 1 & 2) are written at different paces and density of sex scenes, yet have both received favourable reviews and feedback from the same readers. I don't think pace of the story, or how quickly you get to the sex matters, the readers are attracted to your style of writing and your subject matter rather than the pace.

Interesting also to note that the one story I've written "with the reader in mind" (One Cup of Coffee) has got the lowest voting mark and the worst feedback, with people saying it feels "forced" and "unnatural."

Dunno how that compares to other writer's experience, but that's just what I've seen.

The Earl

 

[Glome]

Re: Thanks for the thoughts....

p.s. and Ray! please change that picture of yours, its freakin me out man!

You do not like Oompa Loompas?

-- Glome

 

[Jigs]

Wifeseducer

I guess I'm just trying to find the general ambitions of the writers here. Just what do you think of the readers here and what they want?

They are individuals. Different things of turn them on. Different things turn them off. Different strokes for different folks.

Write it! Take the time and make the effort to do the best you can! Submit it! Let the chips fall where they may! Most may hate it, but somebody out there will love it.

Or, you can do the Bill Clinton thing. Take a poll, find out what is most popular, and /or seriously offends the least number of people, and write your story accordingly.

 

[Uther_Pendragon]

What do you do about grammar, spelling, and punctuation?
:
You follow the rules. You don't follow them because some
English teacher is going to grade your story. You follow
the rules because that is how you communicate in English.
It's all very well to say: "People know what I mean." And,
after enough inspection, many people do. On the other hand,
plenty of people know that you mean something you never
intended.
Why do you start a new paragraph for every new speaker in
dialogue? Because plenty of readers who aren't conscious
of that rule will take two statements from different people
as coming from one if you don't break the new speaker a
new paragraph.
Why do you place commas before 'and' when you have two
independent clauses? Because when reading a sentence
that comma makes the reader think that the subject of the
second clause is really an object of the first.
I'm not saying that readers of perfectly grammatical
writing can't be thrown astray; I'm saying that you want to eliminate all the roadblocks you can.

 

[KillerMuffin]

One of the things I found irrationally fascinating about this thread are the number of people who stated explicity "I write for myself."

There was a discussion not so long about about this very topic:

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61146

Took my a while to find it, but this is what I said:

I write to be heard. It's as simple as that.

It kind of hurts that the Literotica audiences as a whole think of me as a mediocre writer. Though the truth is, I don't think they really do.

I know the average Literotica reader. I've gotten emails from them too numerous to count.

"You're a great writer, but I didn't get off so I only gave you a {insert #1-4}."

I write to the people who enjoy what I write. I write to the people who automatically open up a KM story just because I wrote it. I write to people who like my writing, but they just don't get off on it so they don't give me great reviews.

Has it tempered what I write? Yes. Some of my worst pieces of tripe come from an attempt to appease that "didn't get off" readership. I tried to write something specifically geared to get people off. It didn't exactly work. "I got off, but it wasn't up to your usualy standard so I only gave you a {insert #1-4}."

Literotica readers as a whole want only a few things in a story they open here:

1. To be sexually excited by it.
2. To be entertained by it.
3. To enjoy the writing enough to get into the story.
4. To, if possible, orgasm by it.

These are exactly who I write to. My stories are tailored to be sexually stimulating in some way, to be entertaining or thought provoking, and to have the best writing I can put out. That's the only tailoring I do for my stories.

I write for myself, of course. It's my hair shirt, it's my release, it's my avocation, it's my mistress, it's my flogger, it's all of me. However, when someone has criticism for something I've written and put out for public consumption, I accept it as a part of my dues.

You pay to write publicly and it's all emotional. You can't protect yourself from it either no matter how hard you try. You're stuck with the pain.

People can hollar about "I'm just writing for myself, I don't care if you like it or not" all they want. They're not only lying to everyone, they're lying to themselves. If you're just writing for yourself, don't post it.

Here's my list of never do's.

1: Don't make excuses for my writing.
2: Don't make public defense of my writing when it's attacked.
3: Don't debate the critic.
4: Don't invalidate someone else's opinion of my writing because it hurts my feelings.
5: Acknowledge that my writing is subject to approval every time it's read.

I wish I followed the rules more consistently...

 

[TheEarl]

Killer has hit the nail on the head here. Writing for yourself will bring out the best from (in most cases, apologies to anyone who doesn't consider themselves to be in this category) amateur authors. Only the very best authors can write for a target audience. Even some of the best write consistently about their subject area. Andy McNab anyone (ex-soldier and author of books about the SAS)? Maybe Dick Francis (former jockey who writes books with connections to horse-racing).

Be yourself. Any attempt to be someone else will probably result in a diluted version of your talent.

The Earl

BTW. Killer, I like your stories.