Erotic Horror

[Lord DragonsWing]

Sorry, I guess this is a bitch against an anon. I have a story, Gatorbait, who was doing real well. Then got a 1 vote from someone that cost me the hot raitng. The next perp gives a 1/2 for no sex in the story.
My understanding from the description is sometimes sexy. Did I post this in the wrong category since there was no sex? Most everyone gave it a five until the anon.
Shall we put him/her on a barbeque?

 

[psychocatblah]

I don't think they necessarily have to have sex in them, some of my chapters don't. 1 bombs in erotic horror suck in particular, I think because they're so hard to recover from. It's not the most popular section in Lit so you get fewer votes to balance it out with. I'm up for some backyard grillin

 

[Black Tulip]

I'll have a look at your story shortly. In the meanwhile, how about cutting up in chunks for a marinade first?

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Sorry, I guess this is a bitch against an anon. I have a story, Gatorbait, who was doing real well. Then got a 1 vote from someone that cost me the hot raitng. The next perp gives a 1/2 for no sex in the story.
My understanding from the description is sometimes sexy. Did I post this in the wrong category since there was no sex? Most everyone gave it a five until the anon.
Shall we put him/her on a barbeque?

LDW,

Anon one-bombs seem to come with the territory, and I guess they'll always be with us. Those single-digit IQ creeps apparently think an "H" stands for, "Hit me with a one bomb."

I'd hazard a guess that about 100% of Lit writers have been one-bombed. So consider the source. And now that you've been properly initiated, welcome to the Author's Hangout.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[seasparks]

Why BBQ the 1 bomber?
Use him/her for Gatorbait!
Loved the story by the way.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Your right love, erotic horror doesn't have to have sex in it, sex can be there or implied, but keep in mind some people are just stupid. Unfortunately they breed other stupid people. Don't forget to baste often....it's very important!
Is this a BYOB roast?

 

[Black Tulip]

And what is a BYOB roast?

 

[ABSTRUSE]

And what is a BYOB roast?

Bring Your Own Bottle ,sweets!

 

[Guest]

I have an erotic horror story here at Lit in which the bad guy does get barbequed. How apt is that?

Lord DragonsWing, as somebody else said: you have now been initiated. Welcome to the club.

Lou

 

[CharleyH]

Curious about Erotic Horror and its relationship to SM, and thought I'd post here since the thread is started.

I have been writing a rather lengthy piece about a sexual murder. The story is both told from the perspective of the murderer and an assumed victum, a kind of psychological journey into the minds and perspectives of a sadist and masochist in every true grusome, extreme.

Now, I always considered this story to be an SM tale because of the nature of the relationship between the sadist and masochist and the question of whether or not they can truly co-exist. Yet, despite that it is heavy on sex, because of the nature of the violence, I don't really consider it all that 'erotic' even though the sex is and as I re-write, will be exceptionally vivid and a turn-on to the characters.

When I think of horror, I think of the film genre, and the myraid of theory behind it, but for those of you who consistantly write erotic horror (I have read some stories here, but still a little baffled) how do you define it? What is the 'horror' so to speak? What is the erotic nature of the horror and how is this differentiated from the extremes of SM?

I'm having trouble placing, for example, whether or not anyone would even consider any of de Sade's stories either as a fiction of eroticism, or even a fiction of horror despite that his stories are both sexual and horrific.

Any thoughts?

 

[oggbashan]

I have two low rated erotic horror stories that I wrote when the category is new.

'White Scut' is second to bottom in the poorly named 'Top List'.

A reader recently sent feedback on my other low rated story 'Donna'. Apparently it 'freaked her out' and gave her nightmares. Not that I want to give my readers nightmares but it must have been an effective horror story for her at least. Erotic? Probably not.

Og

 

[Guest]

Curious about Erotic Horror and its relationship to SM, and thought I'd post here since the thread is started.

I have been writing a rather lengthy piece about a sexual murder. The story is both told from the perspective of the murderer and an assumed victum, a kind of psychological journey into the minds and perspectives of a sadist and masochist in every true grusome, extreme.

Now, I always considered this story to be an SM tale because of the nature of the relationship between the sadist and masochist and the question of whether or not they can truly co-exist. Yet, despite that it is heavy on sex, because of the nature of the violence, I don't really consider it all that 'erotic' even though the sex is and as I re-write, will be exceptionally vivid and a turn-on to the characters.

When I think of horror, I think of the film genre, and the myraid of theory behind it, but for those of you who consistantly write erotic horror (I have read some stories here, but still a little baffled) how do you define it? What is the 'horror' so to speak? What is the erotic nature of the horror and how is this differentiated from the extremes of SM?

I'm having trouble placing, for example, whether or not anyone would even consider any of de Sade's stories either as a fiction of eroticism, or even a fiction of horror despite that his stories are both sexual and horrific.

Any thoughts?

Interesting questions, Charley.

Erotic Horror comes in many forms and different people interpret it in different ways.

There is a basic horror story, with sex thrown in. There's an erotic story with a ghost, or other supernatural element thrown in, for atmosphere. A lot of people think these formuli make up an erotic horror story. I don't.

A lot of people see the word "horror" and think ghosts/vampires/werewolves, and so on. I, personally, find horror in much more "normal" characters. Men and women can be incredibly evil, and it's that evil, played out in a sexual way, that I am particularly drawn to.

I am a fan of pure, hardcore erotic horror. In my opinion, you are very accurate in equating erotic horror with SM. The masochist in me gets a thrill from reading about rape and torture and even murder. The sadist in me gets pleasure from reading about the rapist/murderer getting his/her payback.

I think a lot of people here might be shocked to find out quite what goes on in the dark recesses of my mind. I have some very dark, some would think depraved, fantasies, and although I have got to make many of them a reality, some of them will stay safely locked away in my mind. Through reading and writing erotic horror is where I get to channel these things.

If you want to read an example of the kind of story I believe to be the best, most pure version of erotic horror, go to Wrath James White's website. He is, in my opinion, the best of the best.
www.wrathjameswhite.com (He's also a very nice guy, and has given me some good advice in the past). He has a few short stories there on his site, but, be warned, he is very hardcore and certainly not to everyone's tastes.

So, that's my take on the sub-genre. And, yes, I do think de Sade is an erotic horror author.

Lou

 

[Black Tulip]

Not that I am an expert on the topic, but I thought that erotic horror had something to do with the connection between fear and arousal.

As far as I know, fear is not a part of the relationship between a sadist and a masochist. That would have to be part trust instead?

Both genres can have pain and what have you, but the emotions behind that are totally different, in my opinion.

Or am I talking nonsense here?

 

[oggbashan]

Not that I am an expert on the topic, but I thought that erotic horror had something to do with the connection between fear and arousal.

As far as I know, fear is not a part of the relationship between a sadist and a masochist. That would have to be part trust instead?

Both genres can have pain and what have you, but the emotions behind that are totally different, in my opinion.

Or am I talking nonsense here?

No. As usual you are talking sense.

But some of the stories in the Erotic Horror category (like most categories) ARE nonsense.

Og

 

[CharleyH]

Not that I am an expert on the topic, but I thought that erotic horror had something to do with the connection between fear and arousal.

As far as I know, fear is not a part of the relationship between a sadist and a masochist. That would have to be part trust instead?

Both genres can have pain and what have you, but the emotions behind that are totally different, in my opinion.

Well BT, fear is definately one part of the arousal for the masochists I know. The anticipation of something coming, but not really knowing what, is described as an adrenaline rush of sorts. There are other aspects of this - I won't get into - and there is a rush in my opinion for the sadist as well. However, I have always seen the SM relationship as contradictory and not complementary. Trust, is the basis of S&M as practiced in the mainstream, particularly when getting into edge play.

I am refering to the extreme of sadaism, not much practiced I would think except among serial killers et al, and the extreme of masochism, the line of which I find fuzzy because I can't relate, but am trying to understand.

It becomes horror because it is atypical from the norm. Is it horror for those who practice? I would think it is purely erotic for the sadist. Yet for those who read, it would be erotic horror, and for those anonymous who read, get pissed off and give 1 scores, it is not so much that the story is bad, but rather their own revulsion of being turned on. (just to speculate the earlier question).

I wrote a thesis in University based on the fantasy extension of the human mind while watching Passolini's Salo. It fascinated me that people got up and walked out of the film, when the film didn't really show anything particularly explicit or repulsive. My theory was that people walked out because they couldn't bear the thought that they had seen an image, and THEY, not the film, actively extended their imagination/ fantasy to complete the image and being so shocked and repulsed to have done something beyond normative, they couldn't bear watching the rest of the film, they were too afraid of their own fantasies and didn't want to be confronted by them. (or something like that).

Anyhow, I'm writing out loud because I'm trying to work out my thoughts.

The question becomes is erotic horror ever horror for the sadist? Hm. It stikes me that the sadist could only normalize the horror because it is erotic but never horror, while the arousal of a masochist would lie in the erotic fear - arousal and repulsion, like holy fuck, what am I doing, but instead of walking out - staying and desiring. It is horror for the masochist, but not the sadist?

Specifically thinking of the Brandt (?) case in Germany.

OK, I think I am starting to confuse myself now.

Thanks Lou. I will check out the site

 

[doormouse]

I'll bring the bubbly LDW ;-)

BTW... anyone making salad for the BBQ?

 

[doormouse]

LOL seasparks...

Just read your comment hehehee

 

[Black Tulip]

Well BT, fear is definately one part of the arousal for the masochists I know. The anticipation of something coming, but not really knowing what, is described as an adrenaline rush of sorts. There are other aspects of this - I won't get into - and there is a rush in my opinion for the sadist as well. However, I have always seen the SM relationship as contradictory and not complementary. Trust, is the basis of S&M as practiced in the mainstream, particularly when getting into edge play.

Hm, I would not call that feeling fear. The uncertainty, the anticipation I can relate to. Also the high that could give. But I would couple real fear to life threatening situations. I can't imagine you'd get sexual impulses at the same time. But that would be me. LOL

I am refering to the extreme of sadaism, not much practiced I would think except among serial killers et al, and the extreme of masochism, the line of which I find fuzzy because I can't relate, but am trying to understand.

It becomes horror because it is atypical from the norm. Is it horror for those who practice? I would think it is purely erotic for the sadist. Yet for those who read, it would be erotic horror, and for those anonymous who read, get pissed off and give 1 scores, it is not so much that the story is bad, but rather their own revulsion of being turned on. (just to speculate the earlier question).

I wrote a thesis in University based on the fantasy extension of the human mind while watching Passolini's Salo. It fascinated me that people got up and walked out of the film, when the film didn't really show anything particularly explicit or repulsive. My theory was that people walked out because they couldn't bear the thought that they had seen an image, and THEY, not the film, actively extended their imagination/ fantasy to complete the image and being so shocked and repulsed to have done something beyond normative, they couldn't bear watching the rest of the film, they were too afraid of their own fantasies and didn't want to be confronted by them. (or something like that).

Seems very feasible to me. I know there are area's here on the site that fascinate me but are at the same time repulsive.

Anyhow, I'm writing out loud because I'm trying to work out my thoughts.

So long you don't mind me thinking along.

The question becomes is erotic horror ever horror for the sadist? Hm. It stikes me that the sadist could only normalize the horror because it is erotic but never horror, while the arousal of a masochist would lie in the erotic fear - arousal and repulsion, like holy fuck, what am I doing, but instead of walking out - staying and desiring. It is horror for the masochist, but not the sadist?

Specifically thinking of the Brandt (?) case in Germany.

That is the one about cannibalism?

OK, I think I am starting to confuse myself now.

Thanks Lou. I will check out the site

Would the horror not lie in the fact you mentioned above? The fact that you get turned on by something awful to most people? In other words, the horror would be your reaction, not the action.

 

[psychocatblah]

Here's my very basic take on it and how I would rationalise it out.

BDSM: About the play of it which roots not only in pleasure of the pain but also from the trust. Even with extreme or edge play it's still play and everyone should survive this.

Erotic Horror: This is where things go wrong. Where desires will go too far and end in tragedy. I think if you get an out of control sadist paired with the masochist who will do anything to please... I think that sets up something that could end up with horrorific events.

That said... I've had a story rejected for "snuff" here before so you might want to watch out for that element of it. Can't wait to read it though

 

[CharleyH]

Hm, I would not call that feeling fear.

LOL, there are different degree's of fear, example: if there was a jar with a cockroach on the counter, and someone had a fear of cockroaches, and then you blindfolded them and the only sensation they felt was something flicking across their arm, their mind would associate and think it to be the cockroach, therefore they would have real fear, even if being unblindfolded they discovered it to be a feather. It's easy to trick someone into fear and the adrenaline rush participates in the arousal.

Asphyxiation in sexual play. People get off on it. There is the possibility of something going wrong. You might trust the person who is doing it, but there is still a fear that something could go wrong combined with the sensation, of the surrender at the hands of another person. Not so cut and dry I would think, but perhaps one aspect of the answer I am looking for?

So long you don't mind me thinking along.

I'm only too happy to have your company

It was a case where a guy wanted to be tortured, and eat his own penis or something, and went on the internet I think, and found someone to do it. The person who did it videotaped it, and is being charged with murder, and the questions of the case are multiple:
-The alleged victum consented to the act, so therefore the accused did not murder him.
-Was the alleged victum insane? Therefore how could he consent to anything.

I will find some more info. tomorrow. It's an intriguing case, and an interesting conversation.

the horror would be your reaction, not the action.

Thanks for helping me unconfuse myself. LOL

Psychocatblah

I've had a story rejected for "snuff" here before so you might want to watch out for that element of it.

Hey PsyCat - long time no hear. What do you mean considered 'snuff'? Snuff is real not fiction? Horror involves killing as far as I have read. Are you referring to murder as opposed to the justifiable types of murder? What do you mean?

 

[psychocatblah]

Hey PsyCat - long time no hear. What do you mean considered 'snuff'? Snuff is real not fiction? Horror involves killing as far as I have read. Are you referring to murder as opposed to the justifiable types of murder? What do you mean?

haha, I've been around, I promise!

Well... basically it was sex in which the end result was death, although in my particular story it was an accident. My guess is that the line is drawn on killing as whether it is part of the sex act... that if the sex results in death then it is snuff.

Because one of my other stories has character death all over the place, although not really during sex. I don't really know how your story is going to end... just pointing out my past troubles. I didn't rewrite it, just posted it elsewhere *shrugs* 'cause really there's venues for nearly anything

 

[Black Tulip]

Charley,

Looking up the case of the German guy is not necessary. At least not for me. It was close enough to have hit the media big time in my country.

That, I would definitely call erotic horror.

 

[Guest]

So, which of you's gonna post pictures of dead & naked chicks (rape victimes: obviously)?

I can't bothered to google for them.

PMs welcome!

 

[Lord DragonsWing]

I'll bring the bubbly LDW ;-)

BTW... anyone making salad for the BBQ?

Thanks doormouse. What are we grilling? lol

Thanks for the comments everyone. Interesting discussion on erotic horror.

 

[curious2c]

I always thought that erotic horror was about vampires, monsters, and ghouls. I guess that evil in many ways would come out in erotic horror though. I have to see if I can conjour something up in this catagory now. Hmmmm.