Erotic E-Publishing Market Deomgraphics

[Rumple Foreskin]

Erotic E-Publishing Market Demographics

Someone on a non-erotic writer's board ask me what the male/female breakdown was for erotic e-publishers. I had to confess my total ignorance, a fact that didn't exactly shock her. But I decided to go in search of sage wisdom concerning that issue, a journey that has, quite naturally, lead me to the Author's Hangout.

So does anyone know about the demographics of the erotic e-publishing industry? Is there any info on items such as sex, age, education, etc. Are the numbers fairly consistent or does it vary from publisher-to-publisher and/or between genres?

And if you don't know, feel free to guess or speculate. After all, this is the AH.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[rgraham666]

From the activity on Yahoo loops, blogs, chats etc. I've been involved in, the industry is a stronghold for women of all ages.

I would guess that about 80% of the people involved are female, with fairly heavy weighting to those over thirty. There doesn't seem to be a lot of young women.

Too bad most of them aren't single.

Mind you this is just my observation and hardly scientific at all.

 

[xssve]

Maybe this will help: http://www.quantcast.com/literotica.com

Literotica.com is a large site that reaches over 2.1 million U.S. monthly uniques. The site is popular among a heavily male, primarily older following. The site's audience's interests are entertainment (pinkisthenewblog.com, The Superficial, wiregirl.com, The Smoking Gun), teen (WeakGame Entertainment, TimeKiller, Teen Help Online ? Peer to Peer, Student.com) and clothing (Snorg Tees, American Apparel, Adidas, Volcom).

Sorry R., mostly males for literotica, but keep it on the downlow.

You can try typing in you publishers website Rumple, if they have one, to see if there is data available - if that doesn't turn up anything, you can start tracking down associated sites, affiliates, etc.

 

[R. Richard]

I agree with Rob that most of the people in the erotic publishing industry are female, although I have no idea of the percentages. Also, the people in the erotic publishing industry think that a very large percentage of their customers are women.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

I suspect that the majority of readers on Lit are mid-life males. However, E-publishing is a totally different story. There the majority of writers are woment, the stories tend to be "chick" stories, so I would think the majority of readers would be female too.

 

[ShyVixen]

I know Rob writes for Phaze. I write for the erotic line of Wild Rose Press. The mainstream erotic e-publishing is dominated by women - these publications are also mainly read by women.

But lots of male authors are making head way into the female world of erotic publishing.

 

[christabelll]

Doesn't it figure - they (men) have villified our femininity for millinea and now they want to take over our erotica ----- bastids....

mostly women 80+% the rest men ... or wanna be men ... LOL

but don't get me wrong - men definitely serve a purpose - even if we don't really need them for it anymore LOL.....

 

[Belegon]

It was suggested to me at Romantic Times that I go from Will Belegon to W. Belegon for the same reasons that female writers in the early days of Science Fiction fandom were told to use only initials.

xssve, I read that as being more about the ranks of the erotic e-publishers that are selling their works as ebooks. It is different than Lit. The industry that Rob, Shy and I publish in is dominated by women on both sides of the dollar and is viewed by most as a sub-genre of Romance, not as one of the visual pornographic industry that is primarily aimed at the male consumer.

 

[shereads]

It was suggested to me at Romantic Times that I go from Will Belegon to W. Belegon for the same reasons that female writers in the early days of Science Fiction fandom were told to use only initials.

xssve, I read that as being more about the ranks of the erotic e-publishers that are selling their works as ebooks. It is different than Lit. The industry that Rob, Shy and I publish in is dominated by women on both sides of the dollar and is viewed by most as a sub-genre of Romance, not as one of the visual pornographic industry that is primarily aimed at the male consumer.

I'm going to venture a guess that most internet porn is visual, with a primarily male audience, and that women lean toward written erotica. Stereotypically, men respond to visual stimuli and women to verbal ones.

I could be wrong, of course. It would be an enormous relief to be wrong.



Edited to add: Belegon, I've heard other authors say their publishers wanted them to gender-neutralize their names, or even use female pen names, on the theory that women don't want to read erotica written by men. I'm sure your publisher can quote you some numbers to back that up, but the sample might be skewed by the lack of male authors for comparison's sake.

When I read erotica, it's not the author's gender that matters most, but the author's understanding of what I want to read. Women authors began as readers of women's fiction, and have the advantage of knowing what turned them on. But when a male author "gets" what women want, it's exciting to know he's a he.

In fact, gender-neutral author names are a turn-off for me, in any genre and especially erotica. Consciously or not, I think readers imagine a relationship with their favorite authors, and that's hard to do when the author is neither male nor female.

(An exception is "Anonymous" who wrote some of my favorite vintage Victorian erotica. He or she was a rebel - and such a perv!)

 

[Belegon]

I'm going to venture a guess that most internet porn is visual, with a primarily male audience, and that women lean toward written erotica. Stereotypically, men respond to visual stimuli and women to verbal ones.

I could be wrong, of course. It would be an enormous relief to be wrong.



Edited to add: Belegon, I've heard other authors say their publishers wanted them to gender-neutralize their names, or even use female pen names, on the theory that women don't want to read erotica written by men. I'm sure your publisher can quote you some numbers to back that up, but the sample might be skewed by the lack of male authors for comparison's sake.

When I read erotica, it's not the author's gender that matters most, but the author's understanding of what I want to read. Women authors began as readers of women's fiction, and have the advantage of knowing what turned them on. But when a male author "gets" what women want, it's exciting to know he's a he.

In fact, gender-neutral author names are a turn-off for me, in any genre and especially erotica. Consciously or not, I think readers imagine a relationship with their favorite authors, and that's hard to do when the author is neither male nor female.

(An exception is "Anonymous" who wrote some of my favorite vintage Victorian erotica. He or she was a rebel - and such a perv!)

I rejected the idea immediately. There are several reasons, not least of which is my partnership with Imp. I believe that we gain credibility, not lose it, by having both POV's available.

There is also the matter that I am as active as possible in attending conventions and doing readings and signings. I never want to go through explaining that I really am the author of W. Belegon's books.

I am doing my best to brand myself. I'm not hiding my gender, I'm actually trying to buck the common "wisdom" and use it as an asset.

But in the long run, it's really about whether they like my work. Of course I want them to like that I am a man... but it is a secondary consideration.

 

[shereads]

I rejected the idea immediately. There are several reasons, not least of which is my partnership with Imp. I believe that we gain credibility, not lose it, by having both POV's available.

There is also the matter that I am as active as possible in attending conventions and doing readings and signings. I never want to go through explaining that I really am the author of W. Belegon's books.

I am doing my best to brand myself. I'm not hiding my gender, I'm actually trying to buck the common "wisdom" and use it as an asset.

But in the long run, it's really about whether they like my work. Of course I want them to like that I am a man... but it is a secondary consideration.

I happened upon the blog of a female author of gay men's fiction, who wrote a scathing comment about men attempting to write for women.

 

[Belegon]

I happened upon the blog of a female author of gay men's fiction, who wrote a scathing comment about men attempting to write for women.

LOL

...and I know several female authors writing M/M Erotic Romance under male names.

whatever....

 

[amicus]

Interesting thread...informative...thank you...


amicus...

 

[M-Y-Erotica]

Which market?

When I think of e-published erotic stories, I mostly think of Erotic Romance as a sub genre of Romance and the publishing houses for that sub-genre, including Ellora's Cave, Liquid Silver, and now the large number of emerging erotic romance lines put out by print romance publishers - Aphrodite, Blaze, etc. If that is the market you are thinking of -- and I do think it is the main PAYING market where you can actually make a few hundred dollars (or more) for a novel -- then, as you can see from just glancing at the publishers' web sites, the novels are marketed towards women, the publishers are women, and the editors are women. Most of the authors are women -- at these sites -- as well, but not all. For Ellora's Cave and Liquid Silver, you can see this playing out in that, by and large, they publish M/F, M/F/M, and M/M stories. They rarely publish F/F, because their readers don't buy enough of them.

I've glanced around at the other erotic markets, but so far they don't appear particularly lucrative. I'd rather get no money and have two thousand reads on Lit than $50 and 100 readers in a print anthology. I've actually always thought that erotic romance offers a great opportunity to spread romance from women to men (though according to RWA, about 20% of romance readers are already men), but so far that doesn't appear to have happened.

In short, my impression is that, if you want to make a living writing, then erotic romance for 80% female readers is the main option. You might be able to write a great novel with a lot of erotic elements and get it in contemporary fiction (the American designation), however. Even there, the majority of fiction buyers are, again, female.

 

[impressive]

In fact, gender-neutral author names are a turn-off for me, in any genre and especially erotica. Consciously or not, I think readers imagine a relationship with their favorite authors, and that's hard to do when the author is neither male nor female.

I find it interesting that -- as a direct result of selecting such a feminine pen name -- I've grown into the role a wee bit. I'm not a girly-girl by any stretch of the imagination, but I have a more traditionally feminine appearance than I have in the past two decades.

Go figure.

 

[xssve]

xssve, I read that as being more about the ranks of the erotic e-publishers that are selling their works as ebooks. It is different than Lit. The industry that Rob, Shy and I publish in is dominated by women on both sides of the dollar and is viewed by most as a sub-genre of Romance, not as one of the visual pornographic industry that is primarily aimed at the male consumer.

I'm sure that's probobly right, as I mentioned in another thread, I worked in breifly on the periphery of the porn industry (adult book and video sales) and the clientele was closer to 99% male, but when I go to the book exchange, the romance section is by far the largest section, and the browsers mostly female.

Thought I'd throw that resource out there though, you can go the other direction with it however, and skim for websites catering mostly to women, if you have any ideas about marketing, guerilla or otherwise.

Since I'm doing sequential art (comix) I have to do a lot of my own marketing, and that audience too is about 80% male.

I'd like to market more to women myself, or at least reel more of them in, and along those lines, I'm curious about the whole gendering dynamic.

The first rule of porn is, it's all about the women - guys are typically stand in's, stunt cocks if you will, the focus is always on the female.

Not too different in erotic fiction, including comix, the protaganist is usually female, the story told from a female POV, etc.

I'm wonding if this is just an assumption, i.e., women prefer a woman POV or whatever, and this to the board in general.

Bronte set the stage I suppose, but I'm wondering how much erotic fiction is told from a male POV?

I've read a few stories in here from a male POV, some written by women but I'm curious about the identification factor: presumably, men will identify with a vaguely fleshed out male character while the female protaganist justifies their fantasies - does it work the same way for women or do they more often identify with the protaganist?

Does the penis envy thing figure into it at all? Men are often curious what it feels like to be a women after, all, there's a hell of a lot more male female impersonators than there are the other way around, so please don't think I'm being political about it, it's about the fantasy, the male is often the more powerful figure - in general fiction, the protaganists tend to be predominantly male, with notable exceptions, Andre Norton, etc.

How do women readers respond to sexually aggressive and or submissive female characters, either lead or supporting, and how does that work out in terms of identification?

I don't really expect a definitive answer to such a generalized question, but I'd love to hear some ideas on this, I'm working at this point pretty much in a complete vacuum.

 

[SesameStreet]

When I think of e-published erotic stories, I mostly think of Erotic Romance as a sub genre of Romance and the publishing houses for that sub-genre, including Ellora's Cave, Liquid Silver, and now the large number of emerging erotic romance lines put out by print romance publishers - Aphrodite, Blaze, etc. If that is the market you are thinking of -- and I do think it is the main PAYING market where you can actually make a few hundred dollars (or more) for a novel -- then, as you can see from just glancing at the publishers' web sites, the novels are marketed towards women, the publishers are women, and the editors are women. Most of the authors are women -- at these sites -- as well, but not all. For Ellora's Cave and Liquid Silver, you can see this playing out in that, by and large, they publish M/F, M/F/M, and M/M stories. They rarely publish F/F, because their readers don't buy enough of them.

I've glanced around at the other erotic markets, but so far they don't appear particularly lucrative. I'd rather get no money and have two thousand reads on Lit than $50 and 100 readers in a print anthology. I've actually always thought that erotic romance offers a great opportunity to spread romance from women to men (though according to RWA, about 20% of romance readers are already men), but so far that doesn't appear to have happened.

In short, my impression is that, if you want to make a living writing, then erotic romance for 80% female readers is the main option. You might be able to write a great novel with a lot of erotic elements and get it in contemporary fiction (the American designation), however. Even there, the majority of fiction buyers are, again, female.

You hit the nail on the head with this explanation. Well said.

 

[rgraham666]

I've written a fair number of stories from the male POV.

Doesn't seem to have hurt my readership any.

 

[JamesSD]

Maybe this will help: http://www.quantcast.com/literotica.com

Literotica.com is a large site that reaches over 2.1 million U.S. monthly uniques. The site is popular among a heavily male, primarily older following. The site's audience's interests are entertainment (pinkisthenewblog.com, The Superficial, wiregirl.com, The Smoking Gun), teen (WeakGame Entertainment, TimeKiller, Teen Help Online ? Peer to Peer, Student.com) and clothing (Snorg Tees, American Apparel, Adidas, Volcom).

This is consistent with my observations of the "typical" Lit reader. A lot are men looking to jerk off to short erotic stories, who are looking for something with a bit more depth than most visual porn offers.

My guess is if you could somehow parse it out, certain categories would be heavily male in their readership (Group sex, Anal, Mature?), and certain female (Romance, Non-consent). Still, from comments and e-mails I've recieved, there is definitely a percentage of women that really like reading erotica written from a male point of view. These are often younger women, trying to figure out male sexuality and what guys really fantasize about.

Of course, I know nothing about actual for profit e-publishing...

 

[The_Fool]

Wierd. I am thinking that most of the poetry editors that I have been running across are male.

 

[Seattle Zack]

About 80% of the purchasers from the e-publishers that I sell to are women, according to the basic metrics they've divulged. Never heard of any backlash against male authors, or any attempt to market it as "women's erotic fiction" (other than Black Lace, which may be more of a marketing gimmick than anything else). Men like pictures or video, women prefer stories. Whatever gets you through the night.

 

[Belegon]

About 80% of the purchasers from the e-publishers that I sell to are women, according to the basic metrics they've divulged. Never heard of any backlash against male authors, or any attempt to market it as "women's erotic fiction" (other than Black Lace, which may be more of a marketing gimmick than anything else). Men like pictures or video, women prefer stories. Whatever gets you through the night.

My admonishment to disguise myself came at Romantic Times from a reader... one dedicated enough to spend the money to travel to and attend the conference...

...so it does exist. I hope that it is a minority position. I may test it at some later time with a book under a female nom de plume... but not right now.

 

[xssve]

I've written a fair number of stories from the male POV.

Doesn't seem to have hurt my readership any.

Yeah I read most of your stories, and the Male POV didn't bother me at all, maybe mostly a visual thing, we'd rather looka t women than men, no shock there - but I notice the same thing in literature, the majority of erotic/pornographic stories are written from a female POV - perhaps the assumption is that the female lead is automatically more sympathetic - or maybe we're just superfluous like they say.