Enron founder Ken Lay dead of heart attack:

[cheerful_deviant]

I didn't know he had a heart. I thought he ran on aluminum foil and battery acid, like Dick Cheney.

I think Ken was probablly aluminum foil and Natural Gas. I hear he could buy it at wholesale.

 

[Guest]

I didn't know he had a heart. I thought he ran on aluminum foil and battery acid, like Dick Cheney.

Ah, damn it!

Just spit out my rum and coke.

 

[JamesSD]

Call me the party pooper, but I think it's a bit crude to revil in, or make fun of someone's death, regardless of what you think of them.

Someone lost their husband, someone lost their father. Let the dead go respectfully on their way.

I tend to agree. I feel no sympathy, but bearing ill will towards the dead is not something I believe in.

At the same time, I feel it's a shame that his estate can now escape punative damages in the civil suits (Compensatory Damages are still going to happen). I hope the people who were harmed by his actions recieve just compensation, in a timely fashion.

 

[Pure]

my only problem with this 'karma' thing is that his death did not occur near slowly enough to counterbalance or cancel out the suffering he caused. it is unfortunate the US laws allow white collar thieves--and bringers of death-- exemption from serious prosecution. (but as a few have stated, including neon, Ken's buddies wrote the laws and appointed and guided the regulators.)

i suspect the loss of life savings (ken brought about) has caused the early death of at least one person. some modes of killing go scot free in the US.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Did you see the pics of his place in Aspen, where he was when he had the heart attack? SHEESH!

 

[English Lady]

Call me the party pooper, but I think it's a bit crude to revil in, or make fun of someone's death, regardless of what you think of them.

Someone lost their husband, someone lost their father. Let the dead go respectfully on their way.

I couldn't agree more.

Can you imagine how heartbroken you'd be if someone was making fun and joking around the death of someone you love?

*sighs*

 

[Huckleman2000]

I couldn't agree more.

Can you imagine how heartbroken you'd be if someone was making fun and joking around the death of someone you love?

*sighs*

Sorry, EL. I know it's your nature, and it's a reason that I love you here, and I wouldn't change you for the world...

But...

It's just really difficult to arouse any sympathy for this guy. True, maybe it's heartbreaking for his family, but how would you feel if someone you love has done such damage to so many people's lives, and the best you can say about it is that it's harsh proof of the banality of evil?

Apart from the company's appalling stock manipulations which wiped out the retirement savings of most of its own employees (apart from senior executives), the company ruthlessly manipulated energy markets to cause a serious economic crisis in California and the rest of the West Coast. Ken Lay parlayed large campaign donations and shady business dealings into a ringside seat at the highest tables of power in the US. Maybe he's just a symbol of the worst excesses and most egregious manipulation of markets, but he's not simply an innocent bystander. At best, he's an amoral opportunist who built a cadre of similar amoral opportunists into the seventh largest company in the US.

Maybe his loved ones are innocent, and simply lucky recipients of his ill-gotten gains. For them, his death may be a fortunate end to threats to their inheritance. I'd be surprised if they all didn't have mixed feelings.

Regardless, it's hard to say my heart pumps more than piss for him. As near as I can tell, on balance the world would have been better off without him.

 

[English Lady]

Huck -I just don't get it. I don't hate and I don't understand hate.

I've said my bit, I'll not get further involved. I'm out of my depth, here.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Huck -I just don't get it. I don't hate and I don't understand hate.

I've said my bit, I'll not get further involved. I'm out of my depth, here.

I know, EL. You're one of those people that just doesn't have a mean bone in their body. Or if you do, you've learned to manage it better than the rest of us.

I don't think it's hate so much. I try not to spend a lot of energy in the negative direction. (Lord knows my brain spends enough energy in that direction quite on its own.) It's more that I can't seem to muster much compassion. I try to sayto myself, people are human and worthy of respect as a given, but some people, it just seems like we'd all be so much better off without them. I don't believe in the death penalty, but I really didn't feel much different upon learning of his death than I did when I learned he was convicted and likely to spend the rest of his life in prison. I'm just sort of glad that people like that are out of the way.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Just heard that his death nullifies his conviction, therefore the government will not be able to touch his assets which they were going through the process before his death.

This does not preclude any and all civil actions against him.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I sympathize with any truly innocent person affected negatively and bereaved by his death. I am not sure that a spouse counts in this case, since most of them simply wink at things that in cases like this, as long as they get their share of the loot. But for any kids he might have, or anyone else truly suffering, I feel bad. Not for Ken himself, of course. I feel much sorrier for his victims.

But I appreciate what what WK, EL, min, and others are trying to say. For children and family in general, this is nothing to celebrate. It's like what would have happened had he gone to prison. It would have been justice, I wouldn't have cared how much he suffered, but I would have felt for those hurt in his own family by his actions. And, of course, that's EL's nature. She's a sweetheart and feels compassion more easily for people. I don't think that's a bad thing. It's her own kind heart. Besides, she's following the principles of her faith, and I respect that.

 

[LadyJeanne]

Sorry, EL. I know it's your nature, and it's a reason that I love you here, and I wouldn't change you for the world...

But...

It's just really difficult to arouse any sympathy for this guy. True, maybe it's heartbreaking for his family, but how would you feel if someone you love has done such damage to so many people's lives, and the best you can say about it is that it's harsh proof of the banality of evil?

Apart from the company's appalling stock manipulations which wiped out the retirement savings of most of its own employees (apart from senior executives), the company ruthlessly manipulated energy markets to cause a serious economic crisis in California and the rest of the West Coast. Ken Lay parlayed large campaign donations and shady business dealings into a ringside seat at the highest tables of power in the US. Maybe he's just a symbol of the worst excesses and most egregious manipulation of markets, but he's not simply an innocent bystander. At best, he's an amoral opportunist who built a cadre of similar amoral opportunists into the seventh largest company in the US.

Maybe his loved ones are innocent, and simply lucky recipients of his ill-gotten gains. For them, his death may be a fortunate end to threats to their inheritance. I'd be surprised if they all didn't have mixed feelings.

Regardless, it's hard to say my heart pumps more than piss for him. As near as I can tell, on balance the world would have been better off without him.

To add to the litany, he and his cohorts at Enron caused the demise of Arthur Andersen, the accounting firm that was eventually cleared of any wrongdoing...too bad for all 40,000 of those employees worldwide who suddenly found themselves out of jobs, too. And those 40,000 weren't just the accountants - lots of mail room, secretaries, computer tech, and other support staff lost their livelihoods.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Just heard that his death nullifies his conviction, therefore the government will not be able to touch his assets which they were going through the process before his death.

This does not preclude any and all civil actions against him.

Hm.
In light of this... I wonder if it was suicide?

 

[neonlyte]

To add to the litany, he and his cohorts at Enron caused the demise of Arthur Andersen, the accounting firm that was eventually cleared of any wrongdoing...too bad for all 40,000 of those employees worldwide who suddenly found themselves out of jobs, too. And those 40,000 weren't just the accountants - lots of mail room, secretaries, computer tech, and other support staff lost their livelihoods.

I'm sorry LadyJeanne, this is just plain wrong. I'll go into details if requested.
Briefly - the Supreme Court overturned the original guilty verdict on a technicality, David Duncan AA Partner for Enron pleaded guilty at the 2002 trial. His guilty plea lost Anderson their top 2000 clients. The shell Anderson that remains has 100 law suits filed against it for malpractice.

 

[LadyJeanne]

I'm sorry LadyJeanne, this is just plain wrong. I'll go into details if requested.
Briefly - the Supreme Court overturned the original guilty verdict on a technicality, David Duncan AA Partner for Enron pleaded guilty at the 2002 trial. His guilty plea lost Anderson their top 2000 clients. The shell Anderson that remains has 100 law suits filed against it for malpractice.

Maybe so...if proving that the company was knowingly doing something wrong is a technicality:

On June 15, 2002, Andersen was convicted of obstruction of justice for shredding documents related to its audit of Enron. Nancy Temple (Andersen Legal Dept.) and David Duncan (Managing Director for the Andersen Houston Office) were the responsible managers in this scandal; they had given the order to shredder the documents. Since the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission does not allow convicted felons to audit public companies, the firm agreed to surrender its licenses and its right to practice before the SEC on August 31.

On May 31, 2005, the Supreme Court of the United States unanimously overturned Andersen's conviction due to flaws in the jury instructions. In the court's view, the instructions allowed the jury to convict Andersen without proving that the firm knew it broke the law or that there was a link to any official proceeding that prohibited the destruction of documents. The opinion was also highly skeptical of the government's definition of "corrupt persuasion" — persuasion with an improper purpose even without knowing an act is unlawful.

Despite this ruling, it is highly unlikely Andersen will ever return as a viable business. The firm lost nearly all of its clients when it was indicted, and there are over 100 civil suits pending against the firm related to its audits of Enron and other companies. It began winding down its American operations after the indictment. From a high of 28,000 employees in the US and 85,000 worldwide, the firm is now down to around 200 based primarily in Chicago. Most of their attention is on handling the lawsuits and presiding over the orderly dissolution of the company.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Andersen

 

[uptoplay2]

I'm sure his family is just hearbroken.

Poor relatives.... more money to fight the cases to prevent their inheritance.

I heard his "priest" announced the death??

Bush is relieved from the duty of pardoning him in two years for keeping his yap shut.

I can't say I'm feeling much sorrow for some at Enron who knew what they were doing was morally wrong. That telephone recording for example. You can't blame the boss when you willingly do the bad deeds.