English usage of the word 'into' ...

[driphoney]

I know how Americans use the word 'into' and it's proper to combine the two words.

"He walked into the house."

Do Brits use it the same way?

Can you give me a good English dictionary web-site to use in the future?

I use Dictionary.com, but it only references American dictionaries.

Thanks in advance.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

I know how Americans use the word 'into' and it's proper to combine the two words.

"He walked into the house."

Do Brits use it the same way? ...

In that case yes. The difference appears to come when the "in" is part of the verbal phrase - for example "give in" when it is used as a verbal phrase meaning "yield" and I will use the past tense deliberately. "He has given in to the threat."

When the "in" is not a part of a verbal phrase then the use of "into" is normal in UK English, as in US English - for example "His lost gloves were given into the care of the conductor."

I observe that current US usage does not distinguish these cases and there appears to be no occasion on which "into" is ever split into "in to". I do not know whether US orthography experts would agree.

... Can you give me a good English dictionary web-site to use in the future? ...

There are two good ones: http://dictionary.cambridge.org/ and http://www.askoxford.com/?view=uk which are widely recognised as authoritative. As to ease of use, I cannot help, as I use an integrated installed Shorter Oxford.

 

[driphoney]

I observe that current US usage does not distinguish these cases and there appears to be no occasion on which "into" is ever split into "in to". I do not know whether US orthography experts would agree.

That answers my immediate question. And your above quote also gives me opportunity to attempt to stump the in house linguistics expert!

 

[Valleyl81]

*****

 

[driphoney]

That's the same in American English. Not everyone realizes it, so it's often written incorrectly, but what you've described is correct. That is an instance in American English where "in to" should be used as two separate words.

My 'in house' linquistics pro would agree, but also said that as an ever changing language a shift in usage is probably occuring. Then our conversation morphed into the idiotic dogma of the split infinitive which I was informed is based on Latin. My simple brain was starting to spin at that point ...

Which has better impact?

"To boldly go where no man has gone before ..."
"To go boldly where no man has gone before ..."

Yeah, we all know ...

Now, should we debate the word 'anymore' and my constant mis-application of the word 'maybe' and 'may be'?

 

[Miss_Misaki]

My 'in house' linquistics pro would agree, but also said that as an ever changing language a shift in usage is probably occuring. Then our conversation morphed into the idiotic dogma of the split infinitive which I was informed is based on Latin. My simple brain was starting to spin at that point ...

Which has better impact?

"To boldly go where no man has gone before ..."
"To go boldly where no man has gone before ..."

Yeah, we all know ...

Now, should we debate the word 'anymore' and my constant mis-application of the word 'maybe' and 'may be'?

Only if we get to gripe about the misuse of "already" vs. "all ready," and "anymore" vs "any more."

 

[driphoney]

Only if we get to gripe about the misuse of "already" vs. "all ready," and "anymore" vs "any more."

Already and all ready I'll give you, but anymore/any more is truly up for debate, even the Cambridge Dictionary says 'anymore' is US English for the British 'any more'. However, I can think of this type of sentence:

Do you want any more cranberry sauce?

Now on to my favorite word: alot. Yeah, I know, it's not a word. But I sooo want it to be one, I make it one all the time! alot, alot, alot, alot ...


(Why am I going into this crap? I need to get a life!)

 

[starrkers]

Only if we get to gripe about the misuse of "already" vs. "all ready," and "anymore" vs "any more."

Then there's "alright" vs "all right".

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

... Why am I going into this crap? I need to get a life!

When you are like me, Dr. Phoney, housebound, impotent, and 70 years old, this IS a life, apart from fine food and wine, and one cannot be eating and drinking all the time.

PS Remember, as a doctor, medical ethics require you to keep this communication strictly confidential.

 

[driphoney]

When you are like me, Dr. Phoney, housebound, impotent, and 70 years old, this IS a life, apart from fine food and wine, and one cannot be eating and drinking all the time.

PS Remember, as a doctor, medical ethics require you to keep this communication strictly confidential.

Listen Gramps, I mean, kind sir, as a fully board certified Phoney Doctor, you can rest assured that I will not be spreading around the fact that you are impotent.

And as a Dr. of Phoney, might I recommend to a person such as yourself, three hours of solitare, followed by a nap, then my nurse, Horace, will be arriving to administer your bath and bring you gentle salt-free, flavor-free, soft tea.

Mus'n't, mus'n't excite the heart in any way at your age!

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

Back to the topic of this thread: English usage of the word 'into' ...

I think we have analysed "into" reasonably well, so can we now turn our attention to "English" as used in the thread title.

I construed this as meaning UK English, but there are a number of dialects of English in other parts of the world, such as Australia, Canada, Ireland, Jamaica, New Zealand, South Africa, and the USA, to name but a handful.

These are compounded by local regional dialects within the UK, and doubtless within other countries also.

Where and when is "in to" used among these variations? I ask because it would seem silly to have, for example, a Jamaican talking of "a soft day" (which is, of course, an Irish idiom) and many of us do have characters in our stories hailing from different locations.

 

[driphoney]

BUSTED!! I had that thought earlier about not being clear in my meaning of UK English. And I was wanting a UK English dictionary web-site, which was supplied quite nicely. Thank you for reading between the lines.

Sorry. Will now go back to the back of the room and act obediently for the rest of the day. But only the day.

(Tomorrow I will drag out, for a thorough international thrashing, the verb 'gotten' and 'got'.)

 

[Cattypuss]

I'm a bit late to this thread but I just wanted to say -

(1) Another good British English dictionary site is this (there's a thesaurus on the site too) -

http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/index.shtml

(2) "Gotten" vs "got".... can't wait!

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

I'm a bit late to this thread ...

There is a saying, which I believe may not be confined to this forum, which runs "better late than never".

... (1) Another good British English dictionary site is this (there's a thesaurus on the site too) -

http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/index.shtml ...

I agree.

... (2) "Gotten" vs "got".... can't wait!

No contest, and no problem, since "gotten" as the past participle of "get" is US English and is exactly and always replaceable by "got" when translating to UK English. Its use disappeared as a separate word in UK English in the mid 17th century, except in the hyphenated form "ill-gotten", but another slight hangover remains in UK English's "begotten" (being the past participle of "beget") which is very relevant to some of the stories here.

 

[Cattypuss]

No contest, and no problem, since "gotten" as the past participle of "get" is US English and is exactly and always replaceable by "got" when translating to UK English. Its use disappeared as a separate word in UK English in the mid 17th century, except in the hyphenated form "ill-gotten", but another slight hangover remains in UK English's "begotten" (being the past participle of "beget") which is very relevant to some of the stories here.

I absolutely agree wth all that (I'm a Brit).

BUT....

I have noticed, in the last five years or so, that some Brits have started using 'gotten'. I have come across it being used increasingly often but so far I haven't noticed anyone with degree-level education using it.

So, in theory, in a story you wouldn't be wrong in having a less well-educated Brit say 'gotten'.

BUT to be honest it does still sound very American (to my ear, at least), so you'd be safer having all Brits saying 'got'.

 

[Thomas Drablézien]

The UK and the USA have long been "two countries divided by a common language."

However, if my memory serves me correctly I read somewhere that much of US English usage historically, excluding of course modern idiomatic usage, dates back to the language spoken my the first major influx (pre Pilgrim Fathers) of British settlers to the land that was then just called America. Since then US English and UK English have developed on parallel but different lines until these days when US English seems to have become the internationally accepted norm; much to many native UK English speakers chagrin!

US English spelling on the other hand I understand to have been the result of a deliberate policy, at some point in the past, to 'de-Anglicise' the 'American Language'.

(See Bill Bryson's books on this subject)

I know this does not contribute much to the "what is the correct usage of..." debate, but a little historical insight doesn't go amiss.

Happy debating.

TD

 

[driphoney]

I absolutely agree wth all that (I'm a Brit).

BUT....

I have noticed, in the last five years or so, that some Brits have started using 'gotten'. I have come across it being used increasingly often but so far I haven't noticed anyone with degree-level education using it.

So, in theory, in a story you wouldn't be wrong in having a less well-educated Brit say 'gotten'.

BUT to be honest it does still sound very American (to my ear, at least), so you'd be safer having all Brits saying 'got'.

I will keep that very much in the front of my mind whenever I write a story with a cool Brit dude character! (um, bloke)