Endurance vs. pleasure

[Justina123]

Sir asked me an interesting question the other night. He wanted to know if sometimes I just "endure" pain rather than "enjoy" it.

I found that one tough to answer and explain 'cause it didn't seem a straight yes or no. The implication, of course, is that "endured" pain is somehow less okay than "enjoyed" pain.

I told him that, first of all, yes, especially at the beginning of a flogging for instance, there is often pain that is not pleasurable or erotic, but I know from experience that at some point those lovely endorphins will most likely kick in and the physical sensations will become pleasurable. However, even if that does not occur, I do not think "endure" is a good word...because on a mental level, I still "enjoy" the fact that I am submitting to, and pleasing and giving pleasure to, my sadist Dominant and partner who I care deeply for. In fact, in some ways, sometimes I get more satisfaction out of "enduring" than out of erotic pain because I feel less selfish.

Any thoughts, and are any of you articulate folks out there able to better express this?

Thanks,
justina
<who is happy to have a Sir who believes in communication, but is afraid she communicates very poorly indeed!>

 

[NemoAlia]

Justina, if you communicate "very poorly indeed," I must be entirely unable to form words. Your thoughts seem very clear, expressing things that I've never even entertained in my conscious mind but that make perfect sense now that they're there.

Your point about the selfless eroticism of "enduring" pain is a particularly good one.

 

[Ebonyfire]

What is interesting

is that I find if one of my (male) subs is not a pain slut at the beginning of the relationship, he endures the pain, and if it gets too much, then he uses his safeword.

Over time, I find he becomes more and more a pain slut, and then it becomes enjoyable up to a certain point. It is almost as if his body has a "learning curve" for pain.

Has anyone else noticed this effect?

<edited to make sense>

 

[P. B. Walker]

Re: What is interesting

is that I find if one of my (male) subs is not a pain slut at the beginning of the relationship, he endures the pain, and it it gets too much, then he uses his safeword.

Over time, I find that over times he become more and more a pain slut, and then it becomes enjoyable up to a certain point. It is almost as if his body has a "learning curve" for pain.

Has anyone else noticed this effect?

Well, from taking a karate class for 3 years when I was in college, I would say you are very correct. One of the exercises during class was called "body pounding". It's bascially what you expect, one person gets into a specific stance, and the other starts punching or kicking certain points on the body. Novices start out with just very light hitting, and the more advanced students are able to take considerable hits without much lasting pain. Near the end, I was able to take full on kicks to the majority of my body without bruising or much pain. And I personally watched one man who'd been practicing the art for many, many years have a baseball bat broken over his shin without any problems. He didn't even wince in pain.

So yes, your body (muscles and bones) do become accustomed to beating. Your bones toughed and become stronger and your muscles adapt. You should be able to see the results of this in a few short weeks depending on how often you play.

PBW

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: What is interesting

Well, from taking a karate class for 3 years when I was in college, I would say you are very correct. One of the exercises during class was called "body pounding". It's bascially what you expect, one person gets into a specific stance, and the other starts punching or kicking certain points on the body. Novices start out with just very light hitting, and the more advanced students are able to take considerable hits without much lasting pain. Near the end, I was able to take full on kicks to the majority of my body without bruising or much pain. And I personally watched one man who'd been practicing the art for many, many years have a baseball bat broken over his shin without any problems. He didn't even wince in pain.

So yes, your body (muscles and bones) do become accustomed to beating. Your bones toughed and become stronger and your muscles adapt. You should be able to see the results of this in a few short weeks depending on how often you play.

PBW

Thanks PBW.

 

[Justina123]

Justina, if you communicate "very poorly indeed," I must be entirely unable to form words. Your thoughts seem very clear, expressing things that I've never even entertained in my conscious mind but that make perfect sense now that they're there.

Thanks, but true confessions, Nemoalia--- Sir asked me the question after we played on Saturday night and I just kind of stammered and stuttered...it took me till midmorning Sunday to come up with any real intelligible answer! This seems to be standard with me- communication is my biggest "need work on" area- I am naturally quite shy when it comes to talking about sexual things and it has taken a long time for me to be able to even say the parts of the body in conversations with Sir....lol.

- justina

 

[MissTaken]

Re: What is interesting

is that I find if one of my (male) subs is not a pain slut at the beginning of the relationship, he endures the pain, and if it gets too much, then he uses his safeword.

Over time, I find he becomes more and more a pain slut, and then it becomes enjoyable up to a certain point. It is almost as if his body has a "learning curve" for pain.

Has anyone else noticed this effect?

<edited to make sense>

I am not sure that it is the "becoming a pain slut" that is a learning curve, but yes, with time and experience, activities that I simply tolerated in teh beginning now have become activities that I crave.

If that is being a pain slut, well, the answer is a hearty and resounding "Yes!"

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: What is interesting

I am not sure that it is the "becoming a pain slut" that is a learning curve, but yes, with time and experience, activities that I simply tolerated in teh beginning now have become activities that I crave.

If that is being a pain slut, well, the answer is a hearty and resounding "Yes!"

Well, there is a more politically correct way to say it, but as you well know, I am not PC.

Eb

 

[Justina123]

Tolerance vs. liking

As PBW said above in his karate analogy, pain "tolerance" is certainly something that can be physically nurtured. Another example I thought of- when I breastfed my kids, at first, my nipples were quite sensitive. By the time I'd finished the last baby (a total of about 8 years of breastfeeding, ha!) my nipples were quite hardened to all the sucking and biting and pinching they could do (boy, those first teeth are darn sharp and those little jaws can be like vices)! And I have found it to be true now, clamps, etc. which were painful before are much less so now with more use.

But this "tolerance" is still different from really LIKING- that's what I find kind of fascinating. Yes, my nipples now are less sensitive and can take more...but I've gotten to the point where I WANT them to hurt some, where it is an erotic experience for me... and I think that is at least half (if not more) psychological rather than physical.

-justina

 

[AvaAdore]

there are times when pain is just pain and is just plain unpleasant.

pain from being flogged is a mix of things for me...in the beginning it's usually more pleasurable than painful because he makes the first ones more sensual, but as they get harder and harder it gets to be more of an endurance thing. the feelings can be quite confusing. i want it to stop because it hurts but i also want it to continue because i like it...

the most physical pleasure i get from pain is when i am close to orgasming, i guess because of all the hormones. things like having my inner thigh bitten, clothes pins on my nipples, etc feel gooooooooood.

what is a real "pain slut" anyway? just a masochist?

there are times (every few weeks or so) when i feel the need to be tied up and tortured. i also get it the other way around, when i want to be the one dealing pain. i guess that makes me both a sadist and a masochist.

 

[James G 5]

what is a real "pain slut" anyway? just a masochist?

One comment here, sort of the old joke
"Ever notice how even pain sluts still scream when they stub their toes?"

Like most other D/s things, whether it's enjoy or endure, the attitude towards & handling of pain is 99 44/100'ths mental

 

[kayte]

One comment here, sort of the old joke
"Ever notice how even pain sluts still scream when they stub their toes?"

Like most other D/s things, whether it's enjoy or endure, the attitude towards & handling of pain is 99 44/100'ths mental

James ~ Now that is a very good observation!!!

 

[Pure]

J G 5
One comment here, sort of the old joke
"Ever notice how even pain sluts still scream when they stub their toes?"

Yes. Right on.

A psychologist once said in lecture: "You think you like pain. Do this. Unbend a paperclip. Shove the straightened wire under your fingernail. How is it?"

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Tolerance vs. liking

But this "tolerance" is still different from really LIKING- that's what I find kind of fascinating.

But it could be the same, and for some it is. Some subs tolerate things because they get secondary enjoyment from it.

So it just depends on how you are wired.

Eb

 

[AvaAdore]

J G 5
One comment here, sort of the old joke
"Ever notice how even pain sluts still scream when they stub their toes?"

Yes. Right on.

A psychologist once said in lecture: "You think you like pain. Do this. Unbend a paperclip. Shove the straightened wire under your fingernail. How is it?"

but that's a different sort of pain altogether! not to mention that it's just stupid...

there is pain that provides sexual enjoyment (wanted pain) and there is unwanted pain, like stubbing your toe or breaking your arm.

 

[Pure]

ava adore:


there is pain that provides sexual enjoyment (wanted pain) and there is unwanted pain, like stubbing your toe or breaking your arm.

I don't think that even scratches the surface-- as it were-- of the issue.

Are 'wanted' pains wanted more or less arbitrarily, like some want brussels sprouts for dinner?

Is a 'wanted pain' really just a pleasure, like say a pinching of a nipple?

When is an extreme and rather pure pain 'wanted'--like, say, a branding iron applied to the butt?

Why are some pains almost never on the 'wanted' list? (Like say, a minor break to a finger-- perhaps less pain than the branding, above).

 

[lark sparrow]

The control and dominance is missing in accidental pain.


Also, anything "pleasurable" can be turned into bad pain.

You love icecream, it's your favorite - someone makes you eat three gallons in two hours - bad pain.

Being masturbated is pleasurable - someone masturbates you for hours never letting you come, until your skin is raw - pain, frustration... excruciating.... good pain for some perhaps, bad pain for others.

Much of it is head space, some of it is simply physical limits.

A good Dom/me will know each and how to use them. And a submissive, even a pain slut, will always want the control and dominance with their pain, wanted or not.

 

[bondagegurl]

Master enjoys pushing me, testing out how much i can take. and yes, there are times when i'm screaming because i'm in so much pain, but, at the same time... i find it an extreme turn on knowing that he's pushing me, and knowing that i'm "eduring" the pain for him... which... really doesn't make it "enduring" at all... and he often finds that i'm dripping with a smile on my face just from the experience.

are there any other submissive who feel the same?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Thought this could be explored more perhaps and though the thoughts are in my head, the coherence factor is not lending itself to typing it in an understandable form at this hour of the day, so, I will return. LOL.

Catalina

 

[X6QvQ9X]

side of sub

Dear Gurl,

This submissive I know the feeling well. My dear lord and master finds much pleasure teasing and testing me until I can no longer speak. The mind games is what allows it though, sweetness during endurance, harsh reality with surrender.

He is so slow and measured to set the tone and table of what occurs, and his only sign followed is my wet and wiggly groans. Held in place with a final consent to face whatever tormenting pleasure he wims, my mouth taped shut, I have little choice.

Pain and endurance are to me like time and trust, both grow and strengthen with experience. I would never have imagined the joya of my life now had I not allowed my limits to be set by another. Learning the tears and fears are all welcomed.

Yes, I often finds that i'm dripping from every hole with a smile on my face just from the experience.

 

[Netzach]

To me, it's the definition of masochism.

A pain slut will accept pain once their brain can translate it into physical pleasure. The gradual training of the body towards pain is an example.

A masochist simply needs for the pain to have meaning, even if it's as simple as "I must suffer." (I must suffer FOR Daddy, I must suffer for my sins, I must suffer because I am human, I must suffer to really feel my skin, whatever variant)

I found, bottoming, that I had pussy-masochist tendencies. My body never really got trained into high levels of pain, but it was that edge of unpleasantness that I was always looking for. Very few Tops out in the wide world are willing to keep hitting when you say "yellow" though, I sometimes wish I'd managed not to.

Scaredy pussy me at war with any maso me.

 

[hurtme]

hmmm, I kind of like enduring pain. My current dom really enjoys biting me...and I don't mean pansy bites, I mean the kind that leave enormus bruises and tingle for days. He has broken skin, but only on accident, in the heat of the moment, cause I was writhing around. the thing is, he likes to find a part of my body I might not find erotic, and then bite HARD and hold on, 30 seconds, a minute...jus tot see what my reaction will be. Some of the places he does it, I like a lot, some others (like the back of my shoulder, right above the bottom of my shoulder blade, they werent so much FUN for me, as they were for him, for me, it was a lesson of endurance, cause it hurt...but I know he enjoys it, and rather than giving out my safeword, I like to see how long I can endure it, and if I make it until he lets go (even if i am begging by that time) I am proud of myself. Plus he always rewards me with nice sweet kisses afterwords...

 

[ownedsubgal]

i endure pain...among other things. but endurance i think is a natural part of a slave's life. everything is not going to be pleasureable, enjoyable, or for some, orgasmic. sometimes the whole point is to endure and suffer because that is your place. i very much have a need to suffer. i think i'm a masochist of the uncommon variety...actual pain has never given me any kind of physical pleasure...it doesn't get me moist, doesn't make me tingle or shiver. but i need it and crave it nonetheless...i need it because it ISN'T pleasure. i need to be in true pain, true discomfort. so yes, i endure. not with an attitude, not with the hope of "please let this be over soon", but because 1. i have no choice, and more importantly 2. it's who i am. a crazed psychopath could gradually slice me into bits and still i wouldn't be able to manage a "no" or "stop."

 

[X6QvQ9X]

Woanelly

1. i have no choice, and more importantly 2. it's who i am. a crazed psychopath could gradually slice me into bits and still i wouldn't be able to manage a "no" or "stop."

Endurance is the key phrase here subgal ..
Masochism vs. gratification .. hmmmm ..
I endure because of who I am as well ..
Enduring pleasure though the prayer ..
Enduring all too post another day ..

 

[hurtme]

hmmm, I get what you are saying ownedsubgal, as much as I can, but I personally could never even begin to fully grasp the slave mentality. I could never imaigne doing something not because it was pleasureable, but because i had no choice. Even when i do do somethign I don't exactly adore because my partner likes it a lot, I am still getting somethign out of it...and pain does make me all wet and tingly...