End 9/11 Military Force Declaration

[BoyNextDoor]

I mean let's get real. Does the war power granted while the towers were still smoking really grant the POTUS to carry on these wars in seven different countries 16 years later?

This should be a no brainer. Congress needs to reassert its constitutional authority to declare war.

 

[Hypoxia]

This should be a no brainer. Congress needs to reassert its constitutional authority to declare war.

"A shiver ran through Courage as it searched for a Congressman with a spine it could crawl up."

Congress last declared war on 4 July 1942.
The last peace treaty USA signed was on 14-15 August 1945.
Since then, no wars have been declared -- or won.

Since then, Congress has apparently found no political advantage or potential for bribery er I mean contributions if they were to act constitutionally.

Undeclared wars are unsupported wars, fruitless wars, endless wars. War is declared to defeat specific enemies and achieve specific goals. Undeclared, we don't know who the enemy is, what the goals are, what victory looks like. How can a public support this shit?

Congress is the national jellyfish.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Everyone in Congress is so busy trying to fill their pockets they as a Congress are totally non-functioning....

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Why don't you guys try writing your Congressmen and reminding them of their Constitutional responsibilities. I'm sure this argument has probably never occurred to them.

 

[richard_daily]

Why don't you guys try writing your Congressmen and reminding them of their Constitutional responsibilities. I'm sure this argument has probably never occurred to them.

I don't think that the problem is THEIR congressmen. It's yours.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

I don't think that the problem is THEIR congressmen. It's yours.

Was that the same problem during the 111th Congress? You know, the same group that ramrodded through Obamacare?

Within days of his inauguration, Mr. Obama thrilled civil liberties groups when he issued executive orders promising less secrecy, restricting C.I.A. interrogators to Army Field Manual techniques, shuttering the agency’s secret prisons, ordering the prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, closed within a year and halting military commission trials.

But in more recent weeks, things have become murkier.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/us/politics/18policy.html?mcubz=1

Gee, guess they forgot about repealing the 2001 AUMF and asking Congress for an outright declaration of war. But at least closing GITMO and ending the "torture" of shoving people against walls didn't prevent them from targeting every Toyota pickup truck east of the Red Sea with a cruise missile even when they were occupied by American citizens -- a legal rationale I have no problem with frankly.

Just don't give me this crap about MY Congressman.

 

[richard_daily]

Was that the same problem during the 111th Congress? You know, the same group that ramrodded through Obamacare?



Gee, guess they forgot about repealing the 2001 AUMF and asking Congress for an outright declaration of war. But at least closing GITMO and ending the "torture" of shoving people against walls didn't prevent them from targeting every Toyota pickup truck east of the Red Sea with a cruise missile even when they were occupied by American citizens -- a legal rationale I have no problem with frankly.

Just don't give me this crap about MY Congressman.

I called my reps on those issues... Specifically: warrantless surveillance and targeting of US citizens on foreign soil. How did yours respond?

 

[Colonel Hogan]

I called my reps on those issues... Specifically: warrantless surveillance and targeting of US citizens on foreign soil. How did yours respond?

For the most part, admirably and consistently. You're left to explain why yours didn't show up.

Just like my party will be left to explain why they didn't repeal and replace Obamacare when they had the chance and why I have not the slightest objection to the overtures that President Trump is making to the Democrats right now.

Get shit done or shut the fuck up.

 

[richard_daily]

For the most part, admirably and consistently. You're left to explain why yours didn't show up.

Just like my party will be left to explain why they didn't repeal and replace Obamacare when they had the chance and why I have not the slightest objection to the overtures that President Trump is making to the Democrats right now.

Get shit done or shut the fuck up.

You're comparing Obamacare to the longest war our country has ever seen? And you're mad about...

Healthcare?

Is that your actual stance?

Wow.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Why don't you guys try writing your Congressmen and reminding them of their Constitutional responsibilities. I'm sure this argument has probably never occurred to them.

I live in California, my congressional representatives don't give two pumps of rat shit about me or my thoughts on what they should be doing.

They want me to pack my shit and get the fuck out of their state so bad they can't see straight.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Political posturing coupled with a lie.



The longest running war is Korea. Also, what we declare is meaningless since Islam, and I'm not going to be a marshmallow and use the word "radical" as not to offend Muslims, is at war with us. Taking the authorization to use force (that Hillary voted for in anticipation of actually being able to use it) away from the President is not going to end conflict and save us money.

 

[water505]

I called my reps on those issues... Specifically: warrantless surveillance and targeting of US citizens on foreign soil. How did yours respond?

You don't even know who the Vice-President is, much less your congressional reps.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Why don't you guys try writing your Congressmen and reminding them of their Constitutional responsibilities. I'm sure this argument has probably never occurred to them.

I did. And I gave them money in large part based on this issue. Time Kayne joined with Rand Paul and a group of like minded senators to rescind the power granted to the POTUS. It lost 61-36 yesterday which means the bad policy continues. McCain and Graham continue to clamp down on the senate over this issue and want to fight all over the globe.

In the house Lee from California (who voted against the original bill in 2001) and Taylor from Virginia (A Republican and former Navy SEAL) are trying the same.

So yes, it has occurred to them.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Everyone in Congress is so busy trying to fill their pockets they as a Congress are totally non-functioning....

You get your check each month without fail, no?

 

[Rightguide]

I mean let's get real. Does the war power granted while the towers were still smoking really grant the POTUS to carry on these wars in seven different countries 16 years later?

This should be a no brainer. Congress needs to reassert its constitutional authority to declare war.

Have you read the AUMF? It addresses authority to attack terrorism anywhere in the world, nothing has changed, terrorism still exists and it's still a national security threat. The only reason Obama wanted a new authorization is that he wanted the Congress to curtail his existing authority. he wanted an excuse to nothing.

 

[Hypoxia]

You don't even know who the Vice-President is, much less your congressional reps.

You raise an interesting point. How many here can (or give a shit to) name Reps and Sens in their neighborhood? How about cabinet and agency heads? How informed (or wonky) are we? No cheating, now.

 

[ryan8558]

I live in California, my congressional representatives don't give two pumps of rat shit about me or my thoughts on what they should be doing.

They want me to pack my shit and get the fuck out of their state so bad they can't see straight.

Doesn't matter where you live. Unless you can donate millions $$$$$, have corporate jet they can use, will offer them vacations at 5star resorts, etc, etc your congressman doesn't care about you.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

I did. And I gave them money in large part based on this issue. Time Kayne joined with Rand Paul and a group of like minded senators to rescind the power granted to the POTUS. It lost 61-36 yesterday which means the bad policy continues. McCain and Graham continue to clamp down on the senate over this issue and want to fight all over the globe.

In the house Lee from California (who voted against the original bill in 2001) and Taylor from Virginia (A Republican and former Navy SEAL) are trying the same.

So yes, it has occurred to them.

Did you say 61-36? Gee, if I didn't know better I'd say that almost sounds like bipartisanship.

Could that be the problem? Somebody tell R. Daily.

 

[richard_daily]

Did you say 61-36? Gee, if I didn't know better I'd say that almost sounds like bipartisanship.

Could that be the problem? Somebody tell R. Daily.

If only you could have gotten that to get rid of that dreaded health care thing!

 

[Colonel Hogan]

If only you could have gotten that to get rid of that dreaded health care thing!

That 'dreaded health care thing' ain't ever going to be gotten rid of, but when it finally operates like it should, the votes in both the House and Senate are going to look very similar to that tally.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Have you read the AUMF? It addresses authority to attack terrorism anywhere in the world, nothing has changed, terrorism still exists and it's still a national security threat. The only reason Obama wanted a new authorization is that he wanted the Congress to curtail his existing authority. he wanted an excuse to nothing.

Yes, of course. Have you? Had you read it you would see it is linked specifically to the 9/11 terrorist attack.

That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001,

Congress cannot abdicate its constitutional authority without an Amendment any more than the POTUS can exceed his constitutional authority without an Amendment.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Did you say 61-36? Gee, if I didn't know better I'd say that almost sounds like bipartisanship.

Could that be the problem? Somebody tell R. Daily.

What does partisanship have to do with it?

 

[BotanyBoy]

You get your check each month without fail, no?

Sure...how that make the current congress and those of late not a morally bankrupt cluster fuck??

Doesn't matter where you live. Unless you can donate millions $$$$$, have corporate jet they can use, will offer them vacations at 5star resorts, etc, etc your congressman doesn't care about you.

True story.

The only ones that might are local county or municipal reps. Even then, sometimes I think I only do as well because there are only a few thousand folks in my county.

And the shmoozin' at even that level is way more intense than I first anticipated.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Have you read the AUMF? It addresses authority to attack terrorism anywhere in the world, nothing has changed, terrorism still exists and it's still a national security threat. The only reason Obama wanted a new authorization is that he wanted the Congress to curtail his existing authority. he wanted an excuse to nothing.

Maybe you woudl like to know what an ex Navy SEAL, GOP Congressman from Virginia has to say on the subject:

In the House, in another unlikely partnership, Representative Barbara Lee, the California Democrat who was the only member of the House to vote against the original resolution in 2001, paired up with Representative Scott Taylor, a freshman Virginia Republican and former Navy SEALs member, over the summer to persuade the Appropriations Committee to insert language repealing the original use of force declaration into a spending bill.

“I just felt compelled to stand up and say, now it’s time to look at the A.U.M.F.,” Mr. Taylor said, using the abbreviation for the authorization for the use of military force. He said once he spoke up, other Republicans joined in to support him: “It’s an issue that I don’t think is going to go away.”

But Republican leaders stripped the provision out of the spending measure; Speaker Paul D. Ryan said at the time that the move was a “mistake” and that such language was not appropriate for inclusion in a spending measure.

“It was really shameful,” Ms. Lee said in an interview. “The Constitution requires us to do our job and debate the costs of war.”

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Yes, of course. Have you? Had you read it you would see it is linked specifically to the 9/11 terrorist attack.

That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001,

Congress cannot abdicate its constitutional authority without an Amendment any more than the POTUS can exceed his constitutional authority without an Amendment.

You forgot the last part: "...or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.”

The group [ISIL] was founded in 1999 by Jordanian Salafi jihadist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi under the name Jamāʻat al-Tawḥīd wa-al-Jihād (lit. "The Organisation of Monotheism and Jihad").[46] Following the 2003 invasion of Iraq by Western forces, al-Zarqawi and Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad achieved notoriety in the early stages of the Iraqi insurgency for their suicide attacks on Shia mosques, civilians, Iraqi government institutions and Italian soldiers of the US-led 'Multi-National Force'.

In October 2004, when al-Zarqawi swore loyalty to Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda, he renamed the group Tanẓīm Qāʻidat al-Jihād fī Bilād al-Rāfidayn (lit. "The Organisation of Jihad's Base in Mesopotamia"), commonly known as al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI).[2][214][215][216][217] Although the group never called itself al-Qaeda in Iraq, this remained its informal name for many years.[218] Attacks by the group on civilians, Iraqi government forces, foreign diplomats and soldiers, and American convoys continued with roughly the same intensity. In a letter to al-Zarqawi in July 2005, al-Qaeda's then deputy leader Ayman al-Zawahiri outlined a four-stage plan to expand the Iraq War. The plan included expelling US forces from Iraq, establishing an Islamic authority as a caliphate, spreading the conflict to Iraq's secular neighbours, and clashing with Israel, which the letter said, "[...] was established only to challenge any new Islamic entity".[219]

In January 2006, AQI joined with several smaller Iraqi Sunni insurgent groups under an umbrella organisation called the Mujahideen Shura Council (MSC). According to counterterrorism researcher Brian Fishman, the merger was an attempt to give the group a more Iraqi flavour, and perhaps to distance al-Qaeda from some of al-Zarqawi's tactical errors, such as the 2005 bombings by AQI of three hotels in Amman.[220] On 7 June 2006, a US airstrike killed al-Zarqawi, who was succeeded as leader of the group by the Egyptian militant Abu Ayyub al-Masri.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant#History

Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi succeeded al-Masri following his death in 2010. But it's all the same organization -- an offshoot of Al Qaeda in Iraq. The jurisdiction of the original 2001 AUMF clearly applies.

What does partisanship have to do with it?

Where have you been? In our current political climate, partisanship usually has everything to do with.....well, everything. Not so continuing to fight terrorism apparently.