Electricity: non political/political

amicus

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Electricity: non political/political

A slow day on the forum, or so it seems…so…to maybe liven things up jus a lil…


Since early last spring when I wandered back up into ‘God’s Country’ (Oregon), I have been helping my son and his new bride to get into a house, furnish and outfit it in preparation for a new grandchild that arrived safely in October and is thriving, thank you.

As I contributed a rather large chunk of cash to the endeavor, and they appreciate it and even tolerate my old fashioned ways and occasional nagging about some things.

One of those things was a fireplace, which they viewed as decorative and ornamental, which I rather insisted we check out and bring in a supply of firewood and all that goes with it. I also bugged them about flashlights and candles and a supply of non-perishable food items in the event the power went off.

Well, it happened just after midnight last night in the midst of an intense Pacific storm, bink and the lights went out, no TV, no radio, no computer and, no heat, as the place is all electric.

It was only off for a few minutes and I had a fire going in the fireplace anyway as it was a bit chilly and the electric heat is expensive, besides that, I like a fire going. My son had just gotten off work and was asleep already but my daughter in law came padding out in her nightie with a handful of candles and complained about nothing to do when the television went off, but she did bring the candles from wherever they had been tucked away.

A few minutes later the power went off again and this time it stayed off, so I lit the candles in the kitchen, dining room and living room and noticed she had some going in the back. I stoked the fire and brought in more wood and sat back to think about things and watch the fire burning in the semi-darkness. I went outside to smoke and surveyed the surrounding neighborhood, nary a light to be seen, anywhere and looked back on our warm, cozy little abode.

About an hour later I heard the baby wake up, looking for a warm and soft mama, no doubt and my son wandered out, looked at the candles burning and warmed himself before the fireplace. Not a word was spoken save, “Helluva storm, eh?”

They went back to sleep and another hour or so passed before the power came back on so I snuffed the candles, secured the screen in front of the fireplace and toddled off to bed myself.

***CAUTION*** Political part…

As I lay me down to sleep, I usually pick one of the five ongoing novels I am working on to ponder, plots and characters and scenario’s, but tonight I was thinking about just how essential electricity is in our everyday lives.

Then of course I thought about the energy debate taking place in the United States and considered just what effect a Democrat Congress and possibly White House soon, would have on national energy policies.

It is not unlikely in my mind, anyway, that the Democrats will begin a withdrawal of American and thus Coalition forces in the Middle East and perhaps around the world. And since we wouldn’t need all those troops anymore…downsize the military and the logistical and research funds that support preparedness.

Perhaps the Islamic terrorists will just go away, but I doubt it, I foresee a middle east war and a cessation of petroleum imports from the region and a ‘real’ energy crisis in the U.S..

Not only that, but in a worse, not worst, but worse case scenario, I see terrorists attacking the electric grid in the US proper. At least, that is what I would do if I really wanted to hurt Americans where it hurts the most. And they are smart, it took engineers and intense planning to hijack those aircraft and decide upon targets and effectiveness, so I imagine they will attack not the power plants themselves, but the relatively unprotected and numerous transmission lines that serve cities.

And of course, back to my old complaint of a self sufficient energy policy and you all know where I will go with this one.

I know the Democrats will squash any attempt now to build power plants and explore for more oil and gas resources…sometimes I really wonder that they have in mind.

Even if we were to begin today to build nuclear plants and hydro dams, it would take a decade before improvement would be seen. And don’t’ give me the ‘alternative’ fuel story again, it is not, has never been and never will be an option to supply the massive amounts of power necessary. This damned ethanol thing, increases the price of food products and makes barely a dent in energy supplies.

Okay…end of story…


Amicus…
 
eh....we lived without it before, we can live without it again. In fact, in my home in Canada, there is NO central heat, just a highly efficient woodstove that manages to heat the house quite nicely, without any power at all.
 
Yes, Cloudy, certainly true, a bucolic lifestyle, pastoral in all senses and I am occasionally drawn to memories of those times.

But I doubt that many modern folk would appreciate it. I could be wrong, maybe I could do a poll for those who wish to express how much they would like to live without electricity, ladies do seem to like those daily steaming showers and baths, and other such finery.

amicus...
 
yes there's something to be said for a home's self sufficiency.... esp if you believe the Dems will aid the terrorists in knocking out the US power supply. OTOH, they'll also help the gays destroy the family so there won't be _families_ at home any more, so what's the point?
 
cloudy said:
eh....we lived without it before, we can live without it again. In fact, in my home in Canada, there is NO central heat, just a highly efficient woodstove that manages to heat the house quite nicely, without any power at all.

No amicus, you are correct, this scenario and attitude are nearly terrifying to most people. No power, no computer, no internet? No worries, right? We'll have fun chopping wood or something else wholesome. I love the outdoors as much as the next person, I love winter beauty and magesty in these mountains, but that's because I don't have to huddle in misery by the fireplace (or in my case, try and put a fireplace in, since I'm 100% electric).

The "we lived with it before" is about the worst answer you could possibly give, and it only fuels the Republican "we-told-you-so's." So, it's time for a serious answer to the question: do Democrats really have a stated plan B? They cannot claim responsibility for leadership and have no realistic clue of what to do in case we get cut off from the OPEC dependency. Not answers good in 100 years, not answers for improbable scenarios of cluttering up with windmills and breaking the economy by putting solar panels on every roof, answers good now. The Republicans have alot of (most) things wrong with them, but at least they have answers to this possible crisis.
 
The entire world civilization is based on oil and electricity. Currently, in the US, much of the electricity comes from oil [and natural gas, byproduct of drilling for oil.] While we do get some electric power from coal, the only viable other source is nuclear.

European countries use nuclear to generate increasing amounts of electricity and they don't have Western deserts to dump nuclear waste. It can be done.

As to the terrorist threat against the US power grid. It would take a massive, coordinated attack to really bring the grid down. Yes, the New England grid did crash, but they recovered that and now have some safety procedures in place.

The simplist step that needs to be taken is to end the civil war in Iraq. That would require a couple of months at most if proper procedures were used. [The citizens of Phoenix were having a civil war over the issue of becoming/not becoming a state. One man, Bert Mossman, head of the Arizona Rangers was summoned by the responsible citizens of Phoenix [Jim, Carol and Sam.] Bert Mossman got off the train and was asked, "Where are the rest of the Arizona Rangers?" Bert Mossman said, "You only got one war. I only sent one man." The next morning Bert Mossman got back on the train and left. The war was over. [All a matter of historical fact.] The same technique can be used to end the Iraqi war in very short order. All that is needed is someone who knows what to do and the authority to do it.
 
Pure said:
yes there's something to be said for a home's self sufficiency.... esp if you believe the Dems will aid the terrorists in knocking out the US power supply. OTOH, they'll also help the gays destroy the family so there won't be _families_ at home any more, so what's the point?

Again, sass is not an acceptable answer, for it only reinforces the conservative's opinion that the Democrats have no answer (which also enforces the claimed "go-with-the-flow(today-only)" mentality). Is there a reasonable answer out there?

ETA: Umm Richard, nuclear power would never fly, esp with Pelosi leading with her California constituency (where it's a known fact that every attempt to build power producing plants have been stalled, stopped or harassed). The rolling black-outs gave them a serious black eye (and a crazy Republican gov *snickers*), but it did not stop them from trying to blame inaccurate sources and going back to "business-as-usual" once they adapted to the inconveniences and economic burden.
 
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With out electricity or oil the current state of the union and the world would decay rapidly into anarchy. Millions would die from decease. Without electricity the cities sewer reclamation/purification wouldn't work. With people packed together so close the garbage and sewage would accumulate to the point where it would no longer be safe to live in the cities.

People would leave the city to get away from the decease and they would die, without a way to get food or shelter, from the elements.

How many would be left? A couple of million? Maybe a hundred million?

Without power(electricity) modern man would not survive and those that did would not be able to hold this Great Nation of ours together.
 
Kev H said:
No amicus, you are correct, this scenario and attitude are nearly terrifying to most people. No power, no computer, no internet? No worries, right? We'll have fun chopping wood or something else wholesome. I love the outdoors as much as the next person, I love winter beauty and magesty in these mountains, but that's because I don't have to huddle in misery by the fireplace (or in my case, try and put a fireplace in, since I'm 100% electric).

The "we lived with it before" is about the worst answer you could possibly give, and it only fuels the Republican "we-told-you-so's." So, it's time for a serious answer to the question: do Democrats really have a stated plan B? They cannot claim responsibility for leadership and have no realistic clue of what to do in case we get cut off from the OPEC dependency. Not answers good in 100 years, not answers for improbable scenarios of cluttering up with windmills and breaking the economy by putting solar panels on every roof, answers good now. The Republicans have alot of (most) things wrong with them, but at least they have answers to this possible crisis.

Scary to some, maybe, but not necessarily a bad answer. There are those of us who are not as dependent on electricity as others. Some of us spend a great deal of time outside, snow or not, and wouldn't miss it as much.

(btw, we don't "huddle" anywhere...the entire house stays warm without power, thankyouverymuch)
 
Kev H said:
No amicus, you are correct, this scenario and attitude are nearly terrifying to most people. No power, no computer, no internet? No worries, right? We'll have fun chopping wood or something else wholesome. I love the outdoors as much as the next person, I love winter beauty and magesty in these mountains, but that's because I don't have to huddle in misery by the fireplace (or in my case, try and put a fireplace in, since I'm 100% electric).

The "we lived with it before" is about the worst answer you could possibly give, and it only fuels the Republican "we-told-you-so's." So, it's time for a serious answer to the question: do Democrats really have a stated plan B? They cannot claim responsibility for leadership and have no realistic clue of what to do in case we get cut off from the OPEC dependency. Not answers good in 100 years, not answers for improbable scenarios of cluttering up with windmills and breaking the economy by putting solar panels on every roof, answers good now. The Republicans have alot of (most) things wrong with them, but at least they have answers to this possible crisis.


The suspense is killing me. What is their (The Republicans) answer?
 
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KEVThe Republicans have alot of (most) things wrong with them, but at least they have answers to this possible [electrical power] crisis.

P: Great. Sort of along the lines of the response to Katrina, I suppose. :devil:
 
We're installing solar panels on the roof to our new extension. We have triple glazing for all windows and have insulated the walls and loft. Our heating bills have already dropped significantly.
The largest city in Scotland is getting a new hydroelectric plant built, which is expected to meet all its energy needs.(Glasgow, BTW, which has about a fifth of the population)
Wind power is expected to meet about another fifth of all energy needs for Scotland by 2012.

Only three fifths to go... :nana:
 
cloudy said:
Scary to some, maybe, but not necessarily a bad answer. There are those of us who are not as dependent on electricity as others. Some of us spend a great deal of time outside, snow or not, and wouldn't miss it as much.

(btw, we don't "huddle" anywhere...the entire house stays warm without power, thankyouverymuch)

Though your complete and total lack of empathy for anyone other than you and yours is saddening, it does not stop me from liking you. (Does that make me a hypocrite, or just hip?) I know you are Native American in genes as well as spirit, and in most cases, I am right there with you (though a much more watered down representation).

Only my opinion, but worth a thought: this lack of tact (both in attitude, see response to Zeb, and in smug ignorance) shows impure spirit. I know a few great Native Americans who are careful not to hold that kind of poison inside, and consequently, live at peace with the realities around them. I realize you may just be "playing," but sheesh.


So...Responsible Democrats? Anyone? Answers to the question being dodged by some?
 
Kev H said:
Though your complete and total lack of empathy for anyone other than you and yours is saddening, it does not stop me from liking you. (Does that make me a hypocrite, or just hip?) I know you are Native American in genes as well as spirit, and in most cases, I am right there with you (though a much more watered down representation).

Only my opinion, but worth a thought: this lack of tact (both in attitude, see response to Zeb, and in smug ignorance) shows impure spirit. I know a few great Native Americans who are careful not to hold that kind of poison inside, and consequently, live at peace with the realities around them. I realize you may just be "playing," but sheesh.


So...Responsible Democrats? Anyone? Answers to the question being dodged by some?

It's not that I don't have any empathy for anyone else....I do. Maybe I just feel that the threat as expressed by ami is not quite as serious as he makes it out to be. And maybe, just maybe, we should learn not to be as dependent on electricity as we are.

I'd miss it if it were gone, sure, but it wouldn't kill me.

(my response to Zeb is based on past history, not on smug arrogance - besides, I haven't believed that "great nation of ours" crap in a long time, if ever)

eta: my "attitude" has nothing to do with my geneology, honestly. I just don't buy into ami's chicken little response to the Democrats winning the House and Senate, that's all. ;)
 
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Me?
I'll have a glass of merlot.
'He who must not be named' seems to be of the opinion that it is a touch effeminate. Real men drink beer. :p
 
kendo1 said:
The feathers keep her warm. :)

Hi, Cloudy. :heart:

Nah, I have a big ol' Ojibway to keep me warm at night. ;)

Hi, Ken. :heart:
 
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Kandi said:
The suspense is killing me. What is their (The Republicans) answer?

Amicus may be able to tell you, but don't look at me--I'm not Republican. I'd hazard a guess (using some common sense, which may be dangerous) that we'd drill into our local resources while alternate solutions were being put in place with urgency (nuclear, solar, hydro, wind, whatever we can get to work for each area, I'd suppose). [Philosophical aside: What good is the beautiful wildlife if noone (no human) is around to enjoy them? Do trees still make sound when they fall?]

I slept through my World Economics classes, so can someone answer this side question: would we damage the world order and economy by simply becoming self-sufficient over the next 10 years or so?

Pure, you're still being sassy, man...can't you do any better? You're quite good at linking informative articles, so if they exist, I'd think you would have posted them by now.
 
cloudy said:
Nah, I have a big ol' Ojiway to keep me warm at night. ;)

Hi, Ken. :heart:


Evening, gorgeous one. :rose:



And remember, American beer is like making love in a canoe...
 
cloudy said:
It's not that I don't have any empathy for anyone else....I do. Maybe I just feel that the threat as expressed by ami is not quite as serious as he makes it out to be. And maybe, just maybe, we should learn not to be as dependent on electricity as we are.

I'd miss it if it were gone, sure, but it wouldn't kill me.

(my response to Zeb is based on past history, not on smug arrogance - besides, I haven't believed that "great nation of ours" crap in a long time, if ever)

eta: my "attitude" has nothing to do with my geneology, honestly. I just don't buy into ami's chicken little response to the Democrats winning the House and Senate, that's all. ;)

Aha! Now that's something I can understand. :D However, for the sake of humor, I was taking it very seriously...call it an amusing mental exercise.

PS - And besides, jammies is no longer around to keep me out of these kinds of threads with threats of her rubber chicken. *mourns*
 
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Windmills

From my house I can see our offshore windfarm about seven miles away. When the wind blows, which it does about 330 days a year, the windfarm generates enough electricity for about 70% of the demand for 100,000 people and associated industry.

Another much larger windfarm, the London Array, is planned for further out to sea. That will produce enough electricity for about half of London.

Our local DIY store is selling out of electricity generation windmills to attach to your house. I'm not yet convinced because the total amount of electricity produced by one is enough to keep ONE energy-saving lightbulb alight. It won't power the cooker, fires, the washing machine, the dishwasher. It MIGHT power a computer.

I have an open fire and a supply of coal. I have a barbecue and charcoal. I have propane gas fires and a propane cooker. I have paraffin-powered Primus stoves, lanterns and hurricane lamps. I can survive a prolonged power outage - except that the water distribution system would shut down after about three days. What I have is just a precaution against short term problems.

There is no way, in SE England, that the whole community could survive on woodburning stoves and cookers. There just isn't enough wood around.

What worries me in the longer term is the strength of our National Grid for electricity. It isn't being improved as it should be. It needs over-capacity to cope with storm and other damage. As the SE becomes more populated the ability of the electrical supply system is being strained. We are in a better position than many countries but are still vulnerable to major incidents and terrorism might be one of the causes.

Keep your emergency heat and light sources always ready - you might need them soon.

Og
 
Hmmm...Curious...don't bother me, I'm writing a Christmas story...


amicus...
 
R. Richard said:
As to the terrorist threat against the US power grid. It would take a massive, coordinated attack to really bring the grid down. Yes, the New England grid did crash, but they recovered that and now have some safety procedures in place.
Also the damage would need to be so massive that it would take months or years to repair. I would think the Bush administration has taken some action to prevent such an event but ...
 
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