Education thought, thank you DCL

[Dixon Carter Lee]

You're request is too broad. You're not being clear. There are too many unrelated things being argued here.

Study what, exactly? And in which class? And with what intention?

From junior high on I had classes where we could discuss God. They were humanities courses. Is tht what you'd like? Because they exist already.

Do you want to raise your hand in Biology class and say "Can we discuss the possibilty of Creation?" What the hell does that have to do with Physics -- a true science? You know what? If you were to raise that issue in a Physics Class, that the earth is only a million or so years old, etc. etc., and you honestly put it forward as an idea on equal footing with the Big Bang, you deserve to be ridiculed.

And it has nothing to do with ridiculing belief in God. Pleanty of people believe in God without stupidly asserting the claims of Creationists. Creationism and Faith are not intertangeable ideas. Faith is faith, and cannot be touched by science. Creationism is a claim about the physical properties of the world, and science has every right to slam it down along with perpetual motion, the aether, and astrology.

 

[Countess DeWinter]

This is starting to sound more like a personal vendetta than a plea for science. Can't science stand on its own?

As we say in the real sciences, DCL, "show me the data."

 

[Mustang Sally]

originally posted by bobtoad:
Religion was never an issue then why would that make prayer illegal? Maybe because it was an issue?

They did not make prayer in school illegal. They made reciting the Lord's Prayer over the PA every morning illegal. The difference, you ask? The issue was that non-Christian children were being subjected to a religion not their own. They didn't HAVE to stand up and recite it, but I'm sure they felt out of place sitting silently while all the other kids said the prayer.

originally posted by bobtoad:
I would be more than happy if it was made an elective, but I have never seen that offered and as you said religion in school is illegal. Why is it illegal? is it because it is feared? i do not know.

The electives I were referring to are courses like philosophy, world religions, etc. offered at most high schools, I'm quite sure. Again, I DID NOT SAY religion in school is illegal. See response above.

originally posted by bobtoad:
I grew up in the maritimes. I have seen kids booted out of school for carrieng a Bible with thier books. And these were not the thumper kids, these were quiet kids who kept it to them selves. Why does a Bible warrent explusion? Why did a kid get kicked out for bowing his head and praying to himself without words and asking blessing for his dinner in the cafterias? No this is not isolated. Its just not talked about mainstream, thats why no one hears about it.

I'm sorry, I simply can't accept that these things still happen in this country as more than isolated incidences. Kids discriminate among themselves, sure, but for a teacher or principal at a school to do any of the things you mentioned would be solid grounds for dismissal.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

This is starting to sound more like a personal vendetta than a plea for science. Can't science stand on its own?As we say in the real sciences, DCL, "show me the data."

I have no idea what you're talking about. Data for what? What data do you want me to show you? ????

I'm not pleading for science. Science is already in school. I'm pleading against allowing bad critical thinking and mythology to be taught as fact.

Science cannot stand on its own. It needs a well trained public to permit it, understand it, and forward it. If science could stand on its own do you think there would be people out there getting rich pretending to have psychic powers over the telephone?

 

[Countess DeWinter]

Science cannot stand on its own. It needs a well trained public to permit it, understand it, and forward it. If science could stand on its own do you think there would be people out there getting rich pretending to have psychic powers over the telephone?

What an incredible thought! Hmmmm....let's see, I can't recall anyone calling telephone psychics scientists. Are you saying everyone and everything is, can be or should be scientific? That's just a load of crap. There are many things that can't be observed or tested in a scientific manner.
Also, who is going to do the training? Will it be you? People who think like you? Is there really only one way to interpret the data (results from one of those scientific experiments or correlational studies).
Tell me. Does anger cause aggression? Many people would say yes because the two seem to be positively related, as one increases, so does the other. Many would say yes. They could be right. However, so would be the people who said that aggression causes anger. But, then too, the people who held out that a third variable caused both to increase may well be right.
Finally - damn, who knew I could be so long-winded? - I call your attention to Hume's Gap. There is no LOGICAL link between and "is" and and "ought." A value system, a system of belief, a mindset is required to draw the "ought" out of the "is."

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

There are many things that can't be observed or tested in a scientific manner.

No, there aren't.

Your post is so badly thought out and meanders into so many unrelated issues that further response incites rewarding bad critical thinking.

 

[Countess DeWinter]

Thank you so much! I've been hoping to incite some criticism.
We will never see eye to eye on this issue. I leave you your opinion and will continue to hold to mine. Our disagreement isn't going to upset the balance of world power, so let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

I have no idea what you think we're disagreeing on, since you haven't coherently or directly addressed any point I've made, but okay, glad I could help.

 

[Ambrosious]

I have no idea what you think we're disagreeing on, since you haven't coherently or directly addressed any point I've made, but okay, glad I could help.

Hahahahaha!

Man, you kill me. True, but funny.

 

[Bobtoad777]

someone here said science was testable and repeatable.

Could someone repeat the process of creatign the universe for me I have a buyer , and I'll split the profits with whomever creates me a universe first.

[Edited by Bobtoad777 on 12-01-2000 at 01:45 PM]

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Believe it or not, bob, those experiments are going on right now. Don't be surprised if some kid at some University accidentally creates a universe in his bath tub one day.

But, Bob, and I think you're being purposely obtuse again, the Big Bang is an event, not "science". You don't have to repeat the Big Bang to prove it happened, just as you don't have to re-burn a house to scientifically discover where the arson started.

The experiments re: the formation of the universe involve atom smashing, background radiation, the speed of light, red shifting, quantum mechanics, etc. etc., all of which are well documented, and repeated, and repeated, and repeated, plenty o' times.

(Why does the word "science" encourage such muddled thinking and woeful misunderstand of definitions?)

 

[CelestialBody]